27 October 2008

Cipriano Case: Without a Trace of Joana - Updated Video

Broadcast by RTP1 on the 15/10/2008

The case shocked the country in the late summer of 2004.

Little girl Joana Guerreiro, aged 8, had disappeared from the village of Figueira, near Portimão. Her mother Leonor Cipriano gave the media many interviews where she lamented her daughter's disappearance.

Only a few days after the Polícia Judiciária started the investigations, Leonor and her brother João Cipriano were arrested for homicide. But the story would unravel with even more macabre details. The uncle confessed that he cut the girl into three pieces but never revealed where the body was hidden. As a matter of fact, until today Joana's body hasn't been found, which leads the defense lawyers to still entertain doubts about the child's real destiny.

In this report, João Cipriano, who remained silent throughout the entire trial, broke his silence and gave RTP a written interview. The Polícia Judiciária inspectors who took care of the case also speak out for the first time about one of the most complex investigations that the police force ever faced.

Sem Rasto de Joana - Without a Trace of Joana is a report by journalist Jorge Almeida, with image by Pedro Silveira Ramos, image editing by Paulo Nunes and audio post production by Luís Mateus.

Sem Rasto de Joana - Without a Trace of Joana Video
JoanaMorais.Blip.Tv



Transcript and Translation by Debk

No Trace of Joana

The last time that Joana was seen was as she returned to her house after going to the store for her mother. She had gone to purchase some milk and two cans of tuna. What happened after that has never been explained.

At first, Joana was reported as missing.

Fernando Ferreira, GNR police officer, Portimão:
"We received notice via rádio and went to the Aldeia da Figueira … attending Joana's mother and her boyfriend, Leandro. The objective was to try to obtain the maximum amount of information which could help identify the girl: name, age, height and what she was wearing at the time she disappeared. From there, having this information, we searched the village."

The night of 12 September 2004 was a festival night in the Aldeia da Figueira. The traditional São Miguel party was underway as shown in these amateur videos given to RTP, which show no signs of Joana. But in one scene you can see António Leandro, the girl's stepfather.

The Portimão GNR continued with searches over the following days around the Aldeia da Figueira. Posters about the disappearance were put up. But there were no traces of Joana.

The mother began giving interviews to the media.

Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother:
"Everyone in the café says, 'This is a badly told story. A girl disappearing, suddenly... it was someone from outside who headed for Lisbon and took her in a car.'"

Four days later, the case of the missing 8 year old girl is transferred to the PJ in Portimão. Another four days later, it is transferred to the PJ Directory in Faro. The inspectors had no idea they now had in their hands one of the most complex cases ever confronted.

Guilhermino da Encarnação, Director, PJ Faro:
"In this investigation, we covered about 50,000 kilometers. 2100 official processes were created. We assigned approximately 40 inspectors and requested approximately 40 exams from the Scientific Police Laboratory and the Legal Medical Institute."

Leonor Cipriano continued to give interviews.

Leonor Cipriano: "I'm very sad. I think my daughter is really missing her mother. I just ask that anyone who knows about my daughter, that you don't hurt her. And that you can bring her to me."

Interviewer: "Where do you think your daughter could be right now?"

LC: "There are only guesses. If she is alive, or not, if she's hurt. I don't know, there's no explanation for my daughter… I don't know, I don't know."

Without any clues, the PJ inspectors did find discrepancies. The statements of Joana's mother, the uncle and the other family members do not coincide.

Gonçalo Amaral, Coordinating Inspector PJ (Jan 2007): "In the first statements given to the GNR, the first agency to arrive, it was a badly told story. There were various contradictions amongst certain people, witnesses, who were part of the family group where Joana lived. Based on these contradictions, there arose at a certain time the need for a new interrogation of these individuals, with all these witnesses, at the same time, at the police headquarters, such that they couldn't confer between themselves, and with the principal objective to understand whether the girl had, or had not, returned home. From there, it was proved that the girl had returned home. That is, it was a lie, there was a simulation of a disappearance. From there, it was necessary to determine what had happened."

Leonor is taken in by the PJ on the 21 September, eleven days after her daughter disappeared. The girl's uncle, João Cipriano, remained free for one more day but was also arrested under suspicion of homicide.

In the next few days, João took the PJ inspectors to dozens of different locations to point out Joana's body. But the body was not found in any of those places.

Gonçalo Amaral: "At that time, it became, as if it were a fact, to the police that she was playing with us … She was sending a message, a message to perhaps say that the body was cut up or the body no longer existed. But, at the same time, all the diligences constituted evidence. This permitted us, as would come to happen in the trial, to speak about them, because they were diligences in which we participated and not witness statements of the arguidos. We aren't talking about declarations by arguidos, we are talking about giving witness to the diligences that we did and why we did these diligences and went to these places. On the other hand, it would not have happened, for him to indicate where to find the body or the rest of the body or pieces of the body and we then didn't go. We always had to go. And that's what happened."

The PJ's theory was that the body was fed to the pigs, a theory that was not proven in court. Shocked by this macabre story, hundreds of locals invaded the village searching for answers. The same answers for which the PJ were searching. Why was Joana killed? And where is her body?

Guilhermino da Encarnação: "In principal, this is a disappearance. And this crime is always, excuse me, this crime doesn't have a juridic framework but could have behind it a series of crimes, a kidnapping, an abduction, human trafficking, criminal associations, so that any of these crimes could be behind a disappearance. And the complexity begins right there."

Leonor and her brother confessed the crime to the PJ. João Cipriano even participated in a video reconstitution where he explained with the kitchen stool, how the girl was killed in a beating and where she hit her head against the wall. The images filmed by the PJ were shown in court against the protest of the defense attorneys.

Sara Rosado, João Cipriano's lawyer: "I imagine that all the pressure surrounding this process, generated that, those declarations, as well as others in opposite and various directions, with other details, with other facts. As for the rest, the version that you find constituted in the video doesn't even adhere to the accusation. That is, the actual accusation didn't even follow this theory if you examine certain details. And, in fact, only the pressure that … one of these was the enormous pressure on everyone, including the arguidos who were arrested and so…"

RTP requested authorization from the Portimão Court to emit in this report a short excerpt of the video but the judge in charge denied the request invoking the "image rights" of those who appear in the video.

João Cipriano also directed a photographic reconstitution where, with the help of a mannequin, he explained how he cut Joana's body into three parts.

According to the accusations from the Public Ministry, the three body pieces were placed in black sacks in the small refrigerator during the first few hours. In the various exams done by technicians from the Scientific Police Lab at Joana's house, human blood was found in one of the drawers inside the refrigerator. But DNA tests did not prove that the blood was Joana's.

Gonçalo Amaral: "It is just one of the versions that was given, and we continue to find viable and credible because blood was found in a chink on one of the refrigerator drawers. A drop of blood in the drawer. Someone opens [the refrigerator] and lets some blood run. The blood ran into the drawer and was cleaned, so it only remained in the chinks, in the areas that are difficult to clean. The explanation was necessary given the circumstances in which the homicide occurred, as this was not a prepared or planned homicide, it was a homicide "in loco." It happened, in the way everyone knows, and they had to hide the body. It's viable and an alternative that they may have used and tried, during the first phase while thinking about what to do with the body, to hide the body in the refrigerator."

During the trial, it was also proven that the body pieces would only have fit in the refrigerator if that drawer in which they found human blood had been removed from the refrigerator.

Sara Rosado: "The doctor who attended the diligences and testified in court affirmed that, very tightly, [the body] would fit. But only by removing the drawer. There was blood found on the back of the alleged drawer, having removed the drawer, but the doctor said the arguidos were surprised with this. It was an idea that had never occurred to them. So I don't think anything like this happened."

Many more vestiges of blood were found in Joana's house. Using ultraviolet light, they found blood on the walls by the door: traces of facial and hand impressions from a child of the family, but which could not be proved to be Joana's. Also by the light switch, near the front door, there was found a bit of blood from Ruben, Joana's younger brother who also lived in the house.

João Grade, Leonor Cipriano's second lawyer (former lawyer): "There was not blood in so many different areas... there were various exams done... just vestiges of human blood, which is normal. A housewife only has to cut herself peeling potatoes while watching a soap opera, only has to have a cut, to have blood, it just has to fall on the ground, it has to be cleaned as anyone of us would clean, and then with rigorous exams you could conclude that there were vestiges of blood. It doesn't say anything. In any of our houses, there could be blood like this."

On the floor of the house and on a mop handle, there were found a mixture of human and animal blood. These exams were also inconclusive.

Allegedly, the exams did not produce results because Leonor washed the house with gasoline because the house was infected with ticks. A doubtful motive for PJ who found the house filthy with dirty dishes in the sink. Except for some walls which were cleaned. As soon as the first suspicions arose, the house should have been isolated.

Gonçalo Amaral: "You can tell that the house had been cleaned, that area where the blood was found had been cleaned. It had been cleaned with petroleum purchased by Leonor on the day she left the Portimão police station. There was an attempt, that you might say worked well, to inhibit any laboratory results. As many vestiges as possible were obtained, given the circumstances, and the conclusion is that it was human blood. According to the court, and I agree, something serious happened in that house, on that day. And the conclusion was that it was a homicide."

Another piece of evidence found at Joana's house by the PJ were the red shoes that Joana was supposed to be wearing the day she disappeared. The PJ believe that the mother and uncle forgot to hide the shoes, just as they did the purchases from the store. The posters put up by the family said that she was wearing red shoes.

Sara Rosado: "No one knows what the child was wearing, especially the shoes."

In February 2005, photographs were published of Leonor with significant bruising (Marinho Pinto Expresso Newspaper Article). The trial will begin soon of four inspectors charged with torture, and Gonçalo Amaral of the crime of false witness and failure to denounce [inappropriate police behaviour].


Guilhermino da Encarnação: "This is extremely difficult because, in 30 years of criminal investigation, I've never seen the confession of such a serious crime without the arguidos saying they were tortured, attacked or raped so that this, for us police officers, and I tell you, unfortunately, it has become the norm, natural. Therefore I don't give it a lot of credence."

Leonor and João opted to remain silent throughout the entire trial. In November 2005 they were charged with qualified homicide and hiding a cadaver. Leonor was condemned to 20 years and 4 months in prison, and João to 19 years and 2 months. The three jury members and four judges felt that the brother and sister did not intend to kill the child but gave, as proven, that the body was dismembered though they were not convinced it was kept in the refrigerator. Nor was it proven that the child was killed because she caught the mother and her brother having sex. The defense attorneys and the Public Ministry presented an appeal, reducing the penalty to 16 years and 8 month,

With a lot of doubts still to be clarified, Leonor's attorney presented another appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.

João Grade:"It's more than frustrating that we do not know what happened. We have this other child who disappeared 10 years ago, when eight years old, and now has returned at eighteen years old. We don't know whether Joana is going to appear twenty years from now, or four years from now, alive or dead, I don't know."

RTP wanted to talk to Leonor and João, currently serving their sentences in the Odimera and Carregeira prisons. Leonor sent a signed letter, where she agreed to give an interview. Two days after making a request to the Prison Director, that service sent us a newly signed letter when Leonor rescinded her agreement because of "lack of understanding".

João Cipriano agreed to give his first interview, a written interview wherein he proclaimed his innocence. "I did nothing to my niece, Joana Guerreiro. I am innocent. I was threatened with knives to make that video that was shown in court. But it is all lies. The PJ came almost every day to the Olhão prison where I was held to ask me where Joana was. And I, afraid of beatings, kept saying she was here or there, but it was a lie. My sister told me that Joana was fine. She told me that she had sold Joana to a foreign couple."

It remains to be known, what was Joana's destiny.

RTP 2007

File : 197 MB, duration 0:18:28, AVI, 1 audio stream
Video : 180 MB, 1368 Kbps, 25 fps, resolution 700*534 (4:3)
Audio : 16.90 MB, 128 Kbps, 48000 Hz, stereo, MP3


Source: RTP Media

Quick Facts:

1 – Joana Cipriano vanished from a small place 10 km in the outskirts of Portimão. Last time somebody saw her, she was on her way to a local groceries shop;

2 - Her mother, Leonor Cipriano, only reported to Police her daughter had disappeared two days later;

3 – After a long and difficult investigation, headed by Chief-Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, Leonor Cipriano and her brother were accused of murdering the eight year old child;

4 – The body of Joana Cipriano was never found, but samples of human blood were found in her mother's refrigerator;

5 – Her mother justified those samples of blood admitting she had beaten Joana, for some reason, she was hurt and she bled from her nose;

6 – Leonor Cipriano and her brother, who had an incestuous relationship, were sentenced to 16 years in jail, for the murder of her daughter and his niece;

7 – Before the trial, Leonor Cipriano accused five CID officers of beating her, trying to extract a confession. She named the five CID officers, and included Chief-Inspector Gonçalo Amaral ("Amaral Lector", according to British tabloids…);

8 – The Public Prosecutor’s Office opened a criminal investigation and ordered a police line-up, with the CID officers named and accused by Leonor Cipriano of beating her;

9 – The line-up took place with Leonor Cipriano behind a two-way mirror and she couldn’t recognize any of the aggressors;

10 – The Public Prosecutor’s Office magistrate that was in charge of the criminal investigation decided to accuse the five CID officers, but didn’t mention, in the accusation sent to the Court, that Leonor Cipriano couldn’t identify any of the aggressors, in the police line-up;

11 – Leonor Cipriano never confessed the murder of her own daughter. Her brother, in a letter written from jail, accused Leonor Cipriano of selling her daughter;

12 – Police is convinced (and the jurors at the trial found enough evidence to pass a verdict of guilty) that Leonor Cipriano and her brother were found, by Joana, having sexual relations, when she came home, back from the groceries shop. As Leonor Cipriano had a lover, at the time, they were afraid she would tell him what she saw;

13 – So, they beat her, in order to frighten her and keep her mouth shut up;

14 – Perhaps accidentally, they beat her so violently that they killed her. So, they decided to get rid of he body and cut it in pieces, keeping some of them in the freezer, while they gave the other pieces to be eaten by pigs (this is what police believes is the strongest possibility, because there was no other trace of Joana Cipriano, except for the blood samples in her mother freezer…)

15 – The body of Joana Cipriano was never found.

24 comments:

  1. Perhaps accidentally, they beat her so violently that they killed her? How can you accidentally beat someone to death?

    Doesn't Goncalo believe the McCann's put Maddie's body in a freezer, or kept it cold by other means? Didn't the McCanns try to justify the presence of blood with a nose bleed? Didn't Philomena say that the PJ tried to offer Kate a deal to confess?

    Why the similarities? Did the McCanns research this case?

    The bodies of both children not found either.

    Strange coincidences?

    ReplyDelete
  2. I agree Anon that there are many similarities between the Joana case and missing Madeleine. However, I see that these coicidences may not have occurred because the McCanns researched the Joana Cipriano case. I see that the biggest coincidence of all is that the lead detective in both investigations is Goncalo Amaral, maybe a man with not much imagination? Is this not as feasible as your first suggestion?

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  3. According to the Court Report there was insufficient evidence to support the sexual abuse police believed she suffered. Poor, poor child ....

    The McCanns' relatives have said a lot of things about PJ, since proved to be totally untrue.

    Gerry's coldness, chills me to the bone. I've never been able to envisage Kate allowing anything other than Madeleine's repatriation - get her 'home' - never to return - guaranteed by corrupt Brown and his cronies.

    Mari Luz also died amid Madeleine's case. Police confirmed death by strangulation/suffocation, but mercifully no sexual abuse. Under contract to McCanns, Metado 3 involved themselves over and above police investigators. Poor little soul ... her family were known drug dealers living in a rough area of Spain.

    Unlike Mari, Gerry's arrogant challenge to PJ to 'find the body and prove we killed her' confirms it wont' be; well 'taken care of' by those aiding and abetting him.

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  4. helenm,

    May I ask what you mean by your suggestion that Goncalo "maybe a man with not much imagination" ?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Astro & Joana - Thank you for your dedication. Just one note:

    Item #4 says Joana's blood was found in the refrigerator. In the video it states that human blood was found, but it was impossible to confirm that it was Joana's blood.

    Beijinhos,
    debk

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  6. Helenm,

    You, and people like you, even if an elephant sat on your lap, you would still say that the important thing were the creases on your trousers. Not because you're stupid. You, and people like you, just appear, very conviniently, to be so. Sometimes I wonder if the price for which you've sold your soul, was, in effect, reasonable. Time will tell.

    Yes, I see a lot of imagination. A lot of lack of commonsense, and, mainly, I see a lot of gall.

    Textusa

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  7. helenm

    No, your suggestion is not as feasible as mine becuase it is actually the McCanns who seem to have the best imagination as they are the ones who suggested nosebleeds and the deal to confess, not Amaral.

    The only thing the same from Amaral is the suggestion of the freezer.

    It makes you wonder if the McCanns were aware of the case surrounding Joana's murder because they were certainly quick enough to use some of the same excuses.

    Of course, they expanded on it, too, by saying the marks on the wall were left by mosquitoes and that the evidence found in the trunk of the hire car was from rotting meat and dirty nappies.

    You couldn't make it up.

    Well, the McLiars can, of course.

    ReplyDelete
  8. To the anon who thinks that my suggestion is not feasible, a few questions if I may:

    1. Would you, if faced with a detective telling you that blood was found in your apartment, not try and put forward an explanation as to how that blood got there knowing that you had not harmed your child?

    2. We are told that deals are not part of the judicial system in Portugal but does not mean that they are not put forward? IMO to believe that would be naive.

    3. Are you familiar with the rubbish collection system in Praia da Luz? Do you know that rubbish is not collected from your home but from dustbins dotted along the streets?

    4. Have you forgotten the other coincidences, that Goncalo Amaral has accused both sets of guardians of causing the death of their child and most notably the fact that no 'evidence' of either childs death?

    ReplyDelete
  9. “To the anon who thinks that my suggestion is not feasible” allow me to answer the questions put by helenm. Please do respond.

    1. Yes, if there as was a simple, LOGIC explanation for it.

    No, If I didn’t have a simple, LOGIC explanation for it. I would like the police to apply all the concentration possible in finding my child, and thus not confuse them with fantasized explanations.

    In simple, LOGIC explanations are NOT included mosquitoes with localized diarrhea (it seems that particular type of mosquito only likes to land in a very limited space in a random apartment, namely near windows and sofas, and then also these amazing auto-segregated mosquitoes enjoy so much to hop around, ONLY in the referred limited space, that they seem to be addicted on some drug).

    About the rotting meat and diapers, let me guess, it was because “that rubbish is not collected from your home but from dustbins dotted along the streets”. Funny thing. In America, where I live, the collection of rubbish is done that way once a week, and we still use the dustbins to put our garbage (which includes raw uncooked meat that rots), and avoid using the trunks of our cars for that effect. But then again, the Americans are known to be odd people.

    Now a question for you: had you HARMED your child, would you INVENT an explanation for the blood? Let me answer for you: no, I wouldn’t, its common knowledge that people who are about to face prison NEVER lie. EVER.

    2. Deals are NOT part of the judicial system in Portugal. Not being a part, excludes automatically its use. Can you simply not follow your on logic? Obviously, in Portugal, as in any civilized part of the world, a voluntary confession mitigates the condemnation. “Deals” as such are constantly being offered, here, there, in Portugal and everywhere in the world.

    And I take the opportunity to offer Mrs McCann a new deal: Kate, please confess.

    3. No, I’m not familiar. Miss the relevance.

    4. Most notably is how its even possible to write “the fact that no 'evidence' of either childs death”. There are no bodies, that is the fact. How much more evidence do you need to the fact that they are both dead? Incredible.

    Textusa

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  10. Wow Textusa, I love your logic. Let me get this right because I would hate to be one of those posters who actually spread gossip and innuendo without facts. The fact that there are no bodies means that is conclusive 'evidence' that both girls are dead? Must be a lot of wasted police hours looking for missing persons all over the world when all they need to put on their reports is missing presumed dead.I see that maybe you went to the same school of logic as Gonacalo Amaral, because believe it or not he had no 'evidence' of either girls death IMO.

    Let me tell you again why it is feasible (there goes that word again) why it is possible for rotting meat, any rubbish etc to have been in the boot of the McCanns car. People take their rubbish in bags to the nearest community bins. If they are lucky enough then they will not have far to walk, if not then it is common practice to transport rubbish in cars, so saving them from repeated visits, especially if you have plenty.

    I truly hope that this explanation meets with your thirst for facts.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Wow Helenm, you ARE “be one of those posters who actually spread gossip and innuendo without facts”.

    A person being missing is not presumed dead. That would be an innuendo without fact. A missing person, whose blood is found in a trunk of a car rented 24 days after she went missing, added up to contradictions that are stated in the files, then yes, one can presume she is dead. Please read the post “Gonçalo Amaral will go to Granada, Spin in November”.

    I know its complex for your unwilling brain to accept unwanted facts, so please allow me to simplify.

    Let’s suppose that a carton with six eggs lies on a kitchen-table (fact). No one is in the kitchen and there is only one entrance (fact). Johnny walks in the kitchen and closes the door (fact). Two minutes later, Johnny opens the door and walks out (fact). On the table, the carton now only has 5 eggs, and one is broken on the floor (fact). It was Johnny who broke the egg (assumption). No one, unless Johnny confesses, will EVER prove that Johnny broke that egg. EVER. And he can deny it for as long as he lives. And he will certainly deny it if the penalty for breaking an egg is the death sentence or life imprisonment without parole.

    Were you able now to grasp the concept of “reasonable doubt”?

    By the way, in this story (imagined by me), Johnny’s family, as they were leaving the court-room after hearing the sentence, claimed his innocence: “It’s now clear to all that no harm has come to that egg. It was abducted as Johnny always stated. The broken egg on the floor was placed there by the blunddering cops so that Johnny could and would take the blame! We will find that egg!”. If you, like myself, believe in Johnny’s guilt, I hope you realize that you’ve just condemned him based solely on your imagination. It seems to be ONLY plausible scenario, but nonetheless, it was all created by your imagination. Innuendos, some would say. Nobody saw him break the egg. So, if you, like myself, believe in Johnny’s guilt, you, Helenm, like myself, are an evil malicious person who just wants to pin the broken egg on poor, poor, saintly Johnny.

    About the trash-and-trunk theory, I would almost buy it. It has logic, no question. Only two things don’t seem to fit:

    The fact that the McCanns seem to enjoy good physical health, to the point of playing tennis the day after Madeleine disappeared, and certainly 24 days after she was missing, they had almost worn out their tennis shoes (this is a total innuendo stated by me, so please avoid pinpointing it), so, it seems, they got a sudden, albeit convenient, attack of laziness, and had to drive, not even a hundred yards, to throw out the trash. As I will state in the next paragraph, Praia the Luz is a small place, and no house is more than a hundred yards from a trash bin, which, by the way, is about the distance Kate McCann had to walk, leaving the twins behind, alone with a possible kidnapper, to warn her friends.

    The other fact is, it doesn’t explain why the McCanns, or the other Tapas bedfllows (another innuendo, and today I’m full of them…) never drove to the beach whilst on vacation. The walk to the beach, as far as I know, without strollers, is much longer than the one to nearest bin.

    I will not go into the third thing that is that to have happened the spilling of the blood, the trash must have been left in the car boot of the car for quite a while, not explainable by a drive around the corner. Yes, you could explain with the coincidence that on a turn the bag, although tied, could have opened and thus spilled the blood… That would be quite a coincidence, would it not? Taking it for granted, please do tell me to how many coincidences are the McCanns entitled to? A hundred? A thousand? As many as they wish and you wish to believe? Because, adding up all the unfortunate coincidences that apparently happened to them, they most certainly beat the Euromillions odds by a gazillion!

    Oh, did I ask you to please fit in the 15 out 19 DNA alleles in you trash-in-the-trunk PLAUSIBLE theory? No, please feel free to do so. Another coincidence?!? Wow Helenm… WOW…

    Textusa

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  12. Have I upset you Textusa?

    I know that a missing person can be just that, do you? Please read my post before answering it saves any confusion at a later date.

    I am not aware of any conclusive evidence of any blood in the back of the McCanns car that has been solely identified to be that of Madeleine McCann. Perhaps you have information that the FSS do not have access to?

    I have no intention of reading the book by Gonacalo Amaral, fiction of this kind plays too much on the imagination I find. So I'll pass on that advice, but thankyou anyway.

    'Reasonable doubt' as a concept is fine but usually used in a court of law with a jury present. Remind me, when did the McCanns go to court? BTW I love your anecdotal 'evidence' re Johnny, very well thought out.

    The bins in Praia da Luz I have explained and seeing as you are in America and I live 2 miles away from Praia da Luz Ithink in all honesty you will have to take my word for it.

    The McCanns and any others like them can have as many coincidences as they like (after all Goncalo Amaral had three didn't he? Guardians had harmed their child, bodies hidden in the freezer and no actual dead bodies) it still doesn't add up to actual 'evidence' and that is why the McCanns have not been charged. It seems so simple to me.

    15 out of 19 alleles (you do remind me of another poster, can't think of whom?) found in the boot of the McCanns car could have been from any member of the McCann family as I remember the FSS stated. Not good enough for you?

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  13. Helemn I don't think that Textusa is 'Americano', as matter of fact I believe my dear friend Textusa is Portuguese like me. The bins do not explain anything pertaining to the human blood and fluids which were found in the McCanns 24 days after rented car. Oh and yes I was in PDL as well, just a 2 hour car travel from Lisbon. Another thing regarding the FSS reports, do you know how many times they've changed the DNA evidences found? In my accounts at least 5 times. From the first report where in 20 genetic Markers 17 belonged to Maddie, passing through the 15 in 19 , some more in the middle and the only report available in the DVD 4,000 + pages where John from the FSS states that it is inconclusive because the genetic profile could have come from a mix of other profiles - however there is no doubt that the indication ends up being Madeleine Beth McCann DNA Profile. Explain that... or don't.

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  14. No helenm, you have not upset me.

    Yes, I do wish I could get my hands on the information that the FSS has...

    The blood of any member of the McCann family's in the trunk of the car? Hmmm, nose bleeding a congenital desease in the McCann family? No longer from rotting meat? Please, next time add the nose bleed to the rotting meat and diapers. The McCanns haven't yet.

    No, I will not take your word for it. For it, or for anything.

    Textusa

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  15. Hello Joana,

    The human being is a fascinating amusing creature, isn't it?

    Big hug

    Textusa

    ReplyDelete
  16. Olá Textusa,

    Concordo. Infelizmente o ser humano é capaz de ser tão destrutivo e cruel como de criar arte e coisas belas. Neste caso em particular tenho um asco, uma acidez na alma que me dá vontade de gritar alto e em plena capacidade das minhas vísceras e pulmões: 'Seus grandessíssimos filhos da puta, comem todos do mesmo tacho e o que está lá dentro é o cadáver de uma criança de 3 anos. Canibais!'

    Enfim, mas talvez não seja politicamente correcto berrar assim, digo eu, aos ouvidos de quem deveria fazer justiça...

    um abraço amigo
    JM

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  17. I don't remember saying that Textusa was Americano, what I did say is 'seeing as you are in America' which I assumed because he/she said "Funny thing. In America, where I live, the collection of rubbish is done that way once a week," I believed him/her.

    It is good that you also have been to Praia da Luz and can verify the workings of the rubbish collection. I cannot agree that it does not offer a reasonable explanation though, and that is all it was a feasible explanation.

    I do not know your background, however your statement

    ' however there is no doubt that the indication ends up being Madeleine Beth McCann DNA Profile. Explain that... or don't.'

    does not lead me to believe that you have based your 'theory' on the 'evidence' available. There is doubt and that is why no charges have been brought against the McCanns.
    I cannot explain it, being a lay person in forensics, can you?

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  18. Helemn please read on:

    Madeleine McCann: Reversed Investigation

    Talking with Pinto da Costa – Forensic Medicine Expert

    Reversed Investigation

    In the book ‘The Truth of The Lie’ Gonçalo Amaral, the PJ coordinator who was removed from the ‘Maddie Case’ has no doubts about the death of the girl. Pinto da Costa follows his considerations.

    Specialist in Forensic Medicine, Pinto da Costa supports the thesis followed by Gonçalo Amaral, which points to the death of Madeleine McCann. The professor does not understand the reason why the analyses done by the British laboratory are not conclusive and he manifests the conviction that, soon or later, the truth will be known. The biggest problem, according to the President of the Portuguese Section of International Transparency [sic], resided in the incorrect way the investigation was carried out. Pinto da Costa understands that the death hypothesis should have been pursued since the beginning.

    Do you believe in the thesis defended by Gonçalo Amaral, according to which Madeleine McCann died accidentally in the night of her disappearance?

    It does seem possible that that has taken place based on the circumstances of the cadaver dogs who signalled [death triggers] the existence of a cadaver and, also of blood with the genetic profile of the girl.

    The English Laboratory said the analyses are not conclusive...

    What the Laboratory concluded was that, in a total of 19 alleles [genetic markers], 15 are present in the sample examined. In Portugal, in order to guarantee the authenticity of progeny [descendants, children], that is, in the paternity tests we use 15 alleles. Therefore, the results obtained by the British Laboratory are extremely significant. Thus, they seem, pertinent in the consideration that the child could have died in the apartment. Another hypothesis is that she could have died outside and then the body was moved inside [the apartment].

    Isn’t there, in Portugal, technical capacity to do this kind of analyses?

    Yes, they could have been done in Portugal. I believe that either the Scientific Police Laboratory of the Judiciary Police or the various Forensic Medicine Institutes have the conditions to perform them. That did not happen possibly for the reason that the persons at issue were of English nationality.

    The explanation given by Gonçalo Amaral, that the corpse was frozen or preserved in cold, for more than 20 days, also seems plausible?

    What I believe is that the body was not totally decomposed. There are situations when the cadaver is preserved more or less without adding any substance, like ice, for example. Besides, we should not forget that this is the body of a child and not of an adult, who decays more rapidly.

    Do you believe the Truth will be discovered?

    Yes, when all entities involved are at a distance. The midwives fight, the truths are discovered. [Portuguese Proverb: "Zangam-se as comadres, sabem-se as verdades."]. The process has so many contradictions that, it is impossible to have one truth.

    And what exactly is at the origin of so many contradictions?

    The fact that the investigation started incorrectly. It should have started with the exaggeration of the positive and with the assumption that the child was killed. Even because the existence of maltreatment is a reality and in these cases, the number one suspect is the father, not the stepfather, the uncle or any other person. At another side, the scene should have been put immediately in custody to avoid its violation, because the examination of the scene is fundamental. The parents presented the abduction hypothesis, but those who do a criminal investigation have to have their ‘heads cold’ [‘cuca fria’- meaning open and objective mind], as they say in Brazil, and cannot deviate from the essential. The investigation was done in reverse.

    Source: Jornal de Notícias, paper edition - 26 July 2008

    Note: Professor Pinto da Costa was the Director of the Portuguese Forensic Institute [INML] for several years.

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  19. Calma Joana.

    Saboreia o hálito fétido das bestas como o duma ratazana encurralada num canto... o seu olhar de pânico ao perceber que vai morrer, apenas não desconhecendo donde e quando virá a pancada. É natural que mostre os dentes... Desespero simples.

    E nós precisamos de ti calma.

    Enjoy the fetid smell from the breath of the beasts as if it were of a cornered rat... the panic in its eyes as it realizes that its going to die, just not knowing when or where will the blow come. Its natural that it shows his teeth... Simple despair.

    And we need you calm.

    Textusa

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  20. helenm,

    'I have no intention of reading the book by Goncalo Amaral, fiction of this kind plays too much on the imagination I find.'

    Leaving no stone unturned in your quest for truth and objectivity, then.

    Still - your knowledge of the whereabouts of Praia de Luz's rubbish bins is very impressive.

    Should serve to silence those pigheaded bloggers, eh. That'll teach 'em!

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  21. Anon who said

    'Leaving no stone unturned in your quest for truth and objectivity, then.'

    Oh please, would you honestly go to a book of fiction in a quest for truth and objectivity? Maybe you would and that is where we differ.

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  22. helenm,

    we are not talking about Willie Wonkers Chocolate Factory, here.

    The book in question, as you well know, is an evidence-based work written by no less than the police officer who co-ordinated the original investigation. A man with significant insight.

    As such it should be of interest to anyone genuinely interested in discovering the truth, or forming a balanced view of this sad case.

    To churlishly dismiss the work as 'fiction' whilst acknowledging a stubborn refusal to read it,surely exposes a fear of confronting unpalatable truths?

    By the way, if the McCanns were to write a book, I would read it.

    Contrary to how you feel,I believe this is how we gain a rounded view of events. It is how we engage in meaningful dialogue.

    Without studying the ramblings of the opposition, how on earth do we know what it is we are objecting to?


    bob the bluebird

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  23. If Mr. Amaral’s book were a work of fiction the McCanns would have taken him to court long ago. I continue to follow this case and visit this blog because I believe that justice was prevented from taking its course due to corruption in both England and Portugal. You would think that the people who defend the McCanns would have abandoned this blog long ago after all their goal of having the couple cleared has been accomplished or has it? Maybe they’re not quite sure themselves. Let me see what was the conclusion of the Portuguese Public Ministry, oh yes: The child was murdered, abduction was impossible and the McCanns are innocent because of their normal behaviour. Even the conclusions are contradictions.

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  24. You are right Bob....
    unless someones intentions are not that 'balanced'

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