20 September 2009

Dave Edgar in the Belfast Telegraph: News from a Parallel Universe

DNA test could find kidnapper

Method used in Omagh case is crucial to solving Maddie mystery says ex-Ulster cop

By Aaron Tinney Sunday, 20 September 2009

A controversial DNA test used in the failed Omagh bomb case is the key to finding Madeleine McCann’s kidnapper, Ulster investigator Dave Edgar has claimed.

But the former RUC detective sergeant’s team will never be able to use it as Portuguese authorities will not give him access to forensic information.

Speaking exclusively to Sunday Life at the HQ of his Alpha Investigations Group in Cheshire, the ex-cop leading the search for Maddie believes that DNA tests, which can establish a profile from just a few cells, could help solve the mystery.

Edgar said he tries to maintain “a decent relationship” with Algarve cops but has blasted them for contaminating the scene of her disappearance.

He claimed if Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA testing had been carried out at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, where Maddie vanished from two years and four months ago, it is “highly likely” her abductor would have been nailed.

LCN DNA is a highly sensitive forensic procedure which magnifies potential evidence that is unidentifiable by traditional DNA testing.

It can obtain a perpetrator’s profile from only a few cells as small as a millionth the size of a grain of salt. Some argue its magnification method leaves evidence open to distortion.

Doubts were raised when south Armagh electrician Sean Hoey was cleared of charges connected to the Omagh bombing in a case which focused on LCN DNA.

But Dave has seen it work before. His team used it in 2007 to snare killer Stephen Mottram, who stabbed love-rival Andrew Batterton to death in a jealous rage.

Dave said: “It’s an amazingly powerful tool, so it’s a real shame we will never get to use it with Maddie.”

Prosecutors in the Omagh case claimed that LCN analysis had shown links between the bomb timers used in the attack and Hoey.

But the judge rejected the use of the technique because it was not yet seen to be at a sufficiently scientific level to be considered evidence and Hoey was cleared of a total of 58 charges, including 29 murders.

A UK-wide suspension of the technique after the Omagh case collapsed was lifted in January of last year and detectives are now free to use it again.

The PSNI has championed Low Copy Number DNA analysis, pointing out that it helped catch Trevor Hamilton, the serial offender who brutally murdered Strabane pensioner Attracta Harron in December 2003.

LCN DNA was also crucial to the conviction fireman Gordon Graham for the 2000 murder of Lisburn man Paul Gault, husband of Graham’s Fire Service lover Lesley, a mum of triplets.

Graham battered his love rival to death with a hockey stick and tried to the make the killing look like work of a burglar.

But Graham’s attempt to commit the ‘perfect crime’ was undone by traces of his sweat found on the handle of sports bag at the Gault's Audley Park home.

Graham, who has always denied the murder, was ordered to serve a minimum 18 years behind bars by the judge who branded him “brutal and merciless” killer.


source: Belfast Telegraph, 20.09.2009


57 comments:

  1. Excuse me but has dave edgar actually read the case files

    I thought LCN was used on the "Maddie" samples

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  2. Hint to Edgar: why not ask your employers to request the Portugese authorities to re-open the investigation?

    There - not difficult is it?

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  3. This man is an idiot, Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA was USED by the FSS to determine various samples and evidences in the Madeleine McCann Case. Is this 'investigator' for real?! Did he actually ever read the DVD process released by the Portuguese Public Ministry? This man and and the McCanns are really taking the piss.

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  4. Why doesn´t he demand to reopen the Case in Portugal, so he can also ask to do this test ;)

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  5. Mccanns are desperate.What's happening in the Uk?First Amaral's book and documentary banned then the threats against Bennet's leaflets and website.Now the sunday express with the two abductors story and the Belfast telegraph with Dave Edgar with the "oh the pj don't let me do my job" story.What's the problem, kate and gerry?The british don't believe you anymore?Is it the fund?Amaral going to the uk?Twins having problems at school?

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  6. idiot of a man,and he is meant to be an expert ,he must be getting payed very well,another one getting money on the back of madeleine,poor child,does no one in the media care about her

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  7. Dave Edgar really should ask his employers if low copy DNA is in their opinion a useful tool in this sort of investigation. Sounds like he's unaware of the background to this case, especially where the forensics are concerned.

    Anyway, Dave, leaving the LC DNA aside for the minute, how many cellars have you searched now?

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  8. yes joana, you are right,they are taking the p***and the media are taking the p*** as well printing crap like this,all i hope they havent paid this joke of a man for this article

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  9. Dr Amaral is on his way to UK. Wow, what if what he has to say actually gets printed and people get to read some FACTS.

    Methinks these people are pulling out all the stops with the la la land stories, trying desperately to reinforce the abduction theory for which there is no proof whatsoever.

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  10. " Edgar said he tries to maintain “a decent relationship” with Algarve cops but has blasted them for contaminating the scene of her disappearance
    ". RUBBISH!!!

    THE MCCANN's Contaminated the crime scene, not the police.

    We want also some more forensic tests to be carried on.... BUT THE FSS TOLD PJ THAT THE SAMPLES ARE DESTROYED. Lab fault, not Pj fault. WHY dont MR. Edgar ask responsabilities to the FSS LAb, for not hanging the samples with care?
    Why, he did not ask the results to be sended to a independent Lab outsid England and Portugal, to be re-evaluated and a new report to be issued? BLA, BLA, BLA... from an incompetent team of detectives which failed even to make some basic questions to "persons of interest"at Barcelona.

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  11. "He claimed if Low Copy Number (LCN) DNA testing had been carried out at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, where Maddie vanished from two years and four months ago, it is “highly likely” her abductor would have been nailed".

    So is it someone we know know then, Dave.

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  12. Maybe someone should ensure Dave Edgar know this, from the London Evening Standard, 27.10.07 -

    'Questions have been raised over the DNA technique which led to Kate and Gerry McCann being made suspects.

    Experts at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham used a method called "low copy number" profiling to analyse material found in the couple's hire car.

    They claim that LCN profiling can obtain an accurate "genetic fingerprint" from just a single human cell.

    But other experts have warned that the Portuguese police have placed too much significance on the DNA results, which link Madeleine to the car hired weeks after her disappearance.

    The technique, pioneered by the FSS in 1999, differs from standard DNA testing in that it does not rely on the presence of bodily fluids or significant amounts of skin or hair.

    Instead, just a single cell of sweat or skin, left by a mere touch, is all that is needed. The tiny DNA fragment is then copied many times over to provide a big enough sample to match with other profiles.

    The FSS claims the technique is just as reliable as standard DNA testing.

    But some experts suggest the copying process can be prone to errors, and that because such small samples can be transferred from place to place by touch alone, finding someone's DNA at a crime scene does not necessarily mean they were ever there in person.'


    So, Dave, what's your employers' opinion of low copy DNA? Have you checked with them before making your claims? lol

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  13. Aye!!!!
    Why is this whinning about Edga-rito?
    Has the PJ told you to fuck off?
    In your spare time READ THE FILES,you twat.... although there is an alternative: ask mr & mrs pinochet to ask the PJ to re open the case....what about that?

    Edgar" highest qualifications: Phd with Honors In Imbecility

    (Soon in the Guiness Book of Records)

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  14. No question... there's some utter drivel coming out now.

    How on earth do they do it?

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  15. What a clown!! (that's just because it is sunday, I had some other words in mind)
    I was just looking for that piece Dimsie, thank you!!
    So LCN is bad when it shows Madeleine remains were in the car, but good to finger the next innocent person to get the suspicion of the neglicent parents.
    OK. You have real entertainment value mr deflective!

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  16. This VERY odd. The LCN tests matched sufficient markers to indicate that Madeleine's corpse had been carried in the back of the Renault, but that wasnt enough for the use of this evidence in court (aceptable in France apparently). Is he going to start asking questions about why the McCanns had ALMOST destroyed traces under the sofa with their sudden intrest in deep cleaning? Has he asked them why they washed Cuddlecat?

    Is this a way of threatening the McCanns whilst seeming to be on their side?

    As to the blatent attempts being made to hide the truth by the McCanns lawyers, do they seriously think that they are going to be able to keep the lid on this much longer?

    Come on Gerry, Kate, Jane etc...spill the beans now - tell the truth of that night before it comes out and you cant benefit from having assisted the enquiry!

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  17. Joanna? Has the English transaltion of Mr (Dr)Amarals book been circulated in the UK yet?

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  18. dave edgar ..the only cop in britain who knows everthing about the case. Wonder whats happened to his mate,

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  19. "dave edgar ..the only cop in britain who knows everthing about the case. Wonder whats happened to his mate,"

    I think he has been eaten by a dragon.

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  20. Did Dave retire, or was he retired does anyone know?
    I cannot believe Clarence Mitchell is allowing this "loose cannon" to career off from the chosen path. The man is a liability.

    I hate to disagree with an earlier poster but to my view the British don't actually give a damn now as to this case.
    As a Brit, living in Britain, the only thing I see stirring us is "the pound in our pocket" and maybe healthcare.

    Ah, healthcare, the NHS. Britain's biggest employer and all we hold dear. When all around us such as as Crime and Unemployement is rife, we can always rely on our NHS.

    What then if six Doctors were accused of negligence, not of their patients, but of their own children, one having either been stolen or lost her life.
    Would you:
    a) Think Oh, what bad luck.
    b)Think, if there are six within a short connection of Leicestershire, how many other NHS Doctors don't care? If they dont care about their own children, would they care about me and mine?

    Once we can understand the enormity of the damage to our confidence in the NHS, then we can appreciate the attendance of the Consular Officials in Portugal that fateful night.

    A reminder too. At the time little Madeleine disappeared, an unelected Gordon Brown, who few liked, was about to be crowned by an equally disliked departing Tony Blair as our future Prime Minister.

    Which headline would they prefer?

    "BROWN OUR NEW SAVIOUR OF THE POUND"
    OR
    "SIX NHS DOCTORS LEFT BABES ALONE ONE MISSING.

    I don't think we need to go into realms of Sorcerers and Masons, the Truth of the Lie, lays in Political spin.
    Why else would Clarence Mitchell be involved?

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  21. This has nothing to do with using Low Copy Number DNA.
    It has everything to do with Team McCann being worried that the PJ might have DNA samples that they haven't been told about.
    So they get Dave Edgar to give an interview whinging about the PJ not letting him have access to the forensics. It's very transparent and yet, since more than 2 years McCanns have been given a free ride to set the news agenda at will.
    When is someone from the other side going to start using the media to stop them?

    T4two

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  22. http://www.gorillaenterprises.co.uk/upload/uploadFiles/shannon_plate.jpg

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  23. Shows that Amaral is telling the truth when he stated that not all information has been released from the files.Obviously info. has been withheld for if and when the case is reopened.


    IRON:

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  24. I am posting all of this information on American blogs but it is not easy. The Americans have enough problems of their own with child abuse by the parents. However, you never know a reporter may spot it and become interested.



    IRON:

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  25. But I suposed that this clown already know's where is Madeleine... NEAR PDL IN A CELLAR.
    Is he working to justify his salary or just exploring Madeleine Tragedy with Rubbish ideas. Maybe, if he start working and get into Madeleine cellar(grave) he will get evidences of who bring her there.
    Ask your employers why they let the FSS lab destroy the samples collected by the police without asking responsabilities and sue the Lab? AMAZING... for a pair of parents which pretend to care and look for their missing daughter.

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  26. Quando eu leio artigos como estes quanto mais penso que este caso mais tarde ou mais cedo vai arrebentar. O que é que as pessoas do labaratorio Inglês hão de pensar quando lêem treta desta? O que é que a policia inglesa que trabalhou com os portugueses neste caso há de pensar quando lê isto? E a policia portuguesa? Isto faz-me acreditar que este casal não regula bem. Muitas pessoas devem estar sob chantagem para fazer o que estes malucos querem.

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  27. Transcript of video....

    My name is Donal Machintyre and I am doing a cold case review of the Madeleine Mccann case for the Sunday express.
    headlines from my investigation are as follows.

    1) Highly organised.

    2) There were at least 2 perps.

    3) The kidnappers had prior acces to the layout of the flat here in 5a before the kidnap.

    4) These were men who were well versed in the art of house breaking and these men also had an ability to clean a crime scene.


    Critical to this investigation is the timing. there was 3-5 minutes for the kidnappers to perpertrate this crime. Consider the pressure the kidnappers were under.

    cont...


    IRON...I will be back...

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  28. The people of the UK must be giving a big yawn as they hear the same old 'Madeleine was abducted' line.

    Yet, let somebody come out and say that Madeleine actually died in the apartment and there never was an abduction, and then they will sit up and listen.

    That's what the McCanns can be sure of, and that's why they are running round in small circles trying to prevent it being said.

    That book about the truth of the lie has to be banned at all costs as far as they are concerned before it hits the UK.

    They are flogging a dead horse because they can't put the stopper back on the bottle.

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  29. cont from video...

    They had to stay hidden in the apartment in the company of gerry Mccann for upto 10 minutes.

    2) They had to subdue madeleine Mccann ,a notorious bad sleeper and bring her out of the apartment.

    3) They had to bring her out of a small window for which they required at least 2 perps.

    and 4) they had to escape the vicinity of the complex and the entire area without suspicion.

    In addition, highly likely they cleaned the crime scene and this required great planning and precision and could not have been the work of an opportunist drifter.


    xxxxxxx
    This could be a very clever move on behalf of The Express ...go along with the abduction but make it sound impossible...


    IRON:::

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  30. I know it is out of topic, but there is aninteresting article called "Richard Dawkins condemns British libel laws" in the Guardian co UK.

    guardian.co.uk/science/2009/sep/20/richard-dawkins-libel-laws

    The scientist explains that "libel laws could have disastrous consequences for the public interests". "He condemned the way London had become the libel capital of the world"

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  31. There is definitely something happening to the McCanns.
    They are more than scared about something.
    This stupid detective Edgar is replacing Clarence, who must have gotten tired of this case.
    Last time, it was Gerry who was giving a statement about Amaral's book, not Mitchell.
    Edgar must cost must less money than Clarence costs.
    Whatever is happening now, I hope the twins are not suffering under it.
    They are not guilty of their parents' irresponsibility.

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  32. IRON, thank you, my dear!

    It is what I meant.
    "Go along with the abduction but make it sound impossible."

    I understood it immediately when I read the article about the two abductors.

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  33. How strange that the article mentions Attracta Harron, as it was Eddie who found the body.

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  34. Dave knows very well what's in the files, he also knows which side his bread's buttered. Corrupt ex plods, eh - don't they just make you wanna spit!

    Iron - I agree, and I believe the McCs would also have been spitting when they read Donal's subtle demolition of their own abduction fantasy.

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  35. moehaa.. dave edgar is even a bigger clown than clarence mitchel..

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  36. I'm afraid, Ironside, you are being rather generous towards Donal... I don't think there's an ulterior motive to his story

    I think a millionaire benefactor paid for his trip & his story...

    Why would Donal not even mention the residue found in the car?

    To make the abductor story fit you have to squeeze some many more unbelievable factors into the process. Hiding in cupboards/stakeouts... all plainly ridiculous - why can no journalist just take the simple route which starts and ends with the parents?

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  37. The author of the article, Aaron Tinney, was also responsible for this disgraceful piece of worK - it's worth reading the comments on the article to see how his readers rate him:

    [url]http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/lsquoi-discovered-escort-work-on-the-web-and-thought-it-was-a-good-way-to-make-money-and-pay-my-bills--that-and-i-love-sex-toorsquo-14455664.html[/url]

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  38. Iron, I don't think Donal MacIntyre pretended to believe in his theory in order to show how ridiculous it was.

    I don't see why a professional would do such a thing, too risky for his career, the high probablility being that most readers will not read between the lines, as they are not used to doing that. Even if the readers concluded that the abduction as described was highly improbable, they would remain with the suspicion the journalist is stupid, writing bollocks. I can't magine him doing that just to convey a truth which he can't express openly. I rather think his magazine asked him one more article about the case, and he produced an article in the line of all the other articles, as probably was expected for him. His one week inquiry seems very light to me anyway, compared to the police investigation, also taking into account that he deliberately ignored all the data which contradicted his theory.

    His theory is but a hypothesis, a story told with a few dramatic words like "eery" and plenty others, which besides, even if it were plausible, doesn't bring anything at all. The title of the article is slightly misleading when it says he "knows how Madeleine was taken", first because he doesn't know for sure, neither if she was taken, nor how, -he just assumes-, secondly because he is far from cracking the case.

    I don't know who Dr Martin Roberts from the Mccann Files is, and what his speciality is, but I relish his articles, with their mixture of linguistics and psychology, and their subdued, almost humourous tone. He has a sharp, patient, thorough, way of examining one word after one word, and its logical implications, which brings the focus on intellectual dishonesty. Very well done, and a satisfying reality check, in this bizarre orgy of journalists and detectives, making up fanciful theories, and expressing them as they come, over the media, day after day.

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  39. The results of low copy dna evidence in the Madeleine case would have been sufficient in both France and the USA to charge her parents. I may be wrong but I believe, in the Madeleine case there were 15 out of 19 markers. France and USA require just 13 of 19. Uk and Portugal require 17 of 19?
    Enough in my mind to dismiss the abduction theory, if not charge the parents.

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  40. I believe it's 15 DNA markers in Portugal for paternity tests.

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  41. Maddie died earlier that evening from an accident. The McCann's afraid of the consequencies arranged for someone, possibly a relative in Spain to come and take her body away. Gerry Met them at the front of the apartment around 9.05pm and then fabricated the abduction. None of the group needed to know anything.

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  42. Não vejo o dia em que a justiça portuguesa e inglesa reforçe a postura e dê uma valente talhada a este casal. Não acredito que a magistratura inglesa, na sua maioria, ao analisar este processo não fique com dúvidas. Creio, no entanto, que a esmagadora maioria conclua que talvez seja tarde para apurar o que realmente aconteceu a Madeleine McCann. Bom, mas admito estar errada, e como não conheço a lei inglesa, não sei qual a possbilidade de, no interesse de alguns cidadãos, o caso ser levado a um tribunal inglês independente. Algo irá certamente acontecer, uma vez que estão já em curso deligências entre os advogados das diferentes partes. Penso que talvez fosse útil, reunir, as pessoas que querem a abertura do processo, em frente à PGR, numa acção concertada e simultânea com a causa inglesa. Num dia e a uma hora que as pessoas possam aderir. Por uma vez na vida eu desejo que as pessoas se dispam dos seus preconceitos, das suas aparências, dos seus compromissos sociais, das suas crenças, das suas amarras, reflictam sobre este caso e se manifestem claramente se são a favor da reabertura (abertura em Inglaterra) deste processo para que fiquem, de uma vez por todas, esclarecidas as circunstâncias em que se deu o desparecimento desta criança. No meu entender todos elas estranhas e ambíguas e muitas são claramente falsas e possíveis de provar no terreno, nomeadamente na reconstituição do dia do desaparecimento. Mas há outras e muito esclarecedoras, e nem precisam de reconstituição!
    Alexandra

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  43. I'm not Joana but a try to reply a question here.
    I don't think Amaral's book is already publisised in the UK.
    It is even forbidden in Portugal, at this moment.

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  44. Sorry, a relative from Spain?
    150 km from Luz?
    No, I think the child was hidden in Luz or Praia da Luz and her body is still there.
    That is what I feel, when I listen to Amaral in his interviews.
    I continue to suspect the crypt of the church and, later, eventually an old grave in Luz.

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  45. Anyone else noticed the sudden influx of Irishmen in this case? The McCann’s appoint an Irishman Dave Edgar, then there's Donal MacIntyre writing about the case and the author Aaron Tinney is Irish, and of course not forgetting Gerry McCann. Are these people therefore impartial? Is Gerry McCann calling in favours? I am starting to wonder about this ‘Irish connection’.

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  46. LJC....yes I remember kate saying they had had a lot of support from the Irish...


    IRONSIDE

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  47. http://www.irishblogs.ie/search/gerry+mccann+blog/


    Those that have the time might like to search the Irish Blogs...


    Support from


    Irish Independent

    Irish examiner...

    Ireland donated a lot of money , remember the
    pub that raised 25.000 pounds....



    IRONSIDE

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  48. http://www.irishpost.co.uk/tabId/550/itemId/2224/McCann-parents-on-Oprah-show.aspx

    The Irish Post.




    IRON:

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  49. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/donegal-town-promises-to-keep-praying-for-madeleine-14288826.html

    Belfast Telegraph...


    The Mccanns have strong Donegal connections that stretch back over centuries..Mccanns mother has a pub there also.


    IRON

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  50. Olá, Joaninha.
    Ontem fui ver a família (não pelos melhores motivos, mas enfim) e mal tive tempo para me pôr a par disto. Esta gente não pode bater bem da tola. O desespero será assim tão grande? E com tanto dinheiro não se arranjará assim alguém um pouco menos idiota e com mais um ou dois neurónios?
    Beijo grande!

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  51. http://www.irishblogs.ie/search/gerry+mccann+blog/

    scroll down and look at the wristbands...different colour but same design that the twins and the Mccanns now wear...Yellow and green on same band. I wonder if this means anything in Ireland.

    IRON

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  52. http://unitedirelander.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html

    We then have Andrew Mccanns Blog....United Ireland....Scroll down to May 2nd and 3rd 2007.

    Tony Blair and the Irish connection....



    IRON:

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  53. http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_12799.shtml


    The Mccanns trip to Huelva has never been explained...



    IRON

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  54. http://www.herald.ie/national-news/maddies-parents-set-for-irish-visit-1442783.html



    I think it is fair to say there is an Irish connection.

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  55. If they really wanted to find Madeleine, they'd pay to bring in more cadaver dogs, and see if they produced the same result, as those dogs gave the only indication there has ever been to what might have happened to the child.

    That will never happen, of course, but wouldn't it be interesting if a newspaper wanted to pay for that, rather than some bollocks cold case review. I thought this agency were tasked with actually trying to FIND the child.

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  56. IS THIS MAN FOR REAL???!!!

    Apart from not having read, so it seems, the police files ( which costed a "bundle" to translate, from the fund's money, of course..., what for, might one ask?...) he has the boldness to say that it was the police that contaminated the crime scene!


    "Edgar said he tries to maintain “a decent relationship” with Algarve cops but has blasted them for contaminating the scene of her disappearance."



    Is he not aware of the mess made by the Tapas group who let "the world and his dog" trample around the apartment before the police arrived? And about the "decent relationship", I thought that the portuguese police did not interact with "private-eyes", the portuguese law does not allow it, or am I wrong?

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  57. Anon.@13:57 said:
    "BUT THE FSS TOLD PJ THAT THE SAMPLES ARE DESTROYED. Lab fault, not Pj fault."
    Exactly! I remember reading about the PJ asking the FSS to return some samples, I think it was the hair supposedly found in the car booth, and the response was that they could not do it because the samples were "accidently destroyed"! So, I doubt if the Pj does even have any samples left, maybe just the ones that were analised in our forensic lab, the IML.

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