21 February 2010

Maddie probe bust-up


A diplomatic war is looming between Britain and Portugal over the probe into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Portuguese police are fuming after a Home Office official said UK officers were taking "all possible steps" to further the inquiry, the Daily Star Sunday can reveal.

The assurance came in a letter to a member of the public, though police here have always said they only co-ordinate and complete inquiries for Portuguese investigators - who have shelved the case.

Strained

One Portuguese officer told us: "There has been a suspicion for a long while that British police are going behind our backs. We need explanations."

A government source said: "There have been many sensitive issues surrounding the case. Relations have, at times, been strained between the two countries and this will not help."

British inquiries have been handled by police in Leicestershire, the home of Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

A force spokesman said: "Any deployment of officers to Portugal to work on the inquiry from the UK would have to be requested and sanctioned by the Portuguese authorities."



in: Daily Star Sunday, 21.02.2010
, paper edition only - courtesy of McCannFiles

154 comments:

  1. http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/scottish/anna_smith/734340/Portuguese-judge-gets-it-spot-on-with-Maddie-book-ban.html?postingId=737932

    I cannot beleive that this was allowed to be placed in this way! No author - blatent McCann propaganda!

    The Portuguese judge should hang her head in such shame!

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  2. Hopefully this will encourage the Portuguese police to re-open the case on thei terms - demand the mcCann's return to Portugal and answer the unanswered questions.

    To allow these low life child neglectors to damage relations between us and our oldest ally is a disgrace!

    Gerry McCann should be charged with perverting the course of justice and asked to explain why he has been identified as having carried Madeleine away from the apartment - he was last to see her (he admits) and must be considered to be suspect no.1!

    Portugal - re-open this case and on your terms not those of the suspects - PLEASE for all of our sakes!

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  3. Nice to see the Express and Star are fighting back...

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  4. Don't believe anything you read in this excuse for a newspaper! I would say it is the lowest of the tabloids - all tits and bums and no content!

    The Leicestershire Police have already said they can do nothing with regard to a review and that the decision must come from the Portuguese authorities.

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  5. Anon 4 agree the Star are shit stirring , they have not spoken to anyone...but they were humilated by the Mccanns and this is two fingers up to them.

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  6. Pois,parece-me que se no dia 18 a decisão tivesse sido outra...

    Voltamos agora aos abusos de ingerência.Sempre o fizeram e vão continuar.E os de cá vão deixar,como sempre.

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  7. Estou a ler o conselho do n.º 4. Certo!

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  8. heres hoping the flood gates will finally open

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  9. At the moment i am ashamed to be British, this Manipulating Duo have caused all this trouble with a country which has been one of our oldest allies. I am also ashamed of our press-media which have not helped at all(by covering up for these two instead of wanting to help Maddie by getting justice for her) My only hope now is for someone To demand a re-opening of the case i did hope that pathetic judge who banned the book would do it but i should have known yet again all the favour went in the neglectors(at the least) favour. Come on someone please put a stop to this and sort the MCCANNS out once and for all.

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  10. I may be wrong but I have a feeling that the inspiration for this article came from the note that Joana affixed to the "McCanns Beg Cameron to help find Madeleine" article, i.e. "A word of advice...."

    Unfortunately blogs such as this are a two edge sword they keep us informed and at the same time they provide ideas for these despicable people.

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  11. Think the clue to this story is:

    'One Portuguese officer' said...

    'A government source' said...

    'A force spokesman' said...

    The Daily Star is a curious little newspaper. One former hack said: "Journalists at the Star can often be found completely blotto weekday afternoons in the local pub, making up stories and inventing quotes to give them substance."

    A young model said: "The only bust-up they're interested in at the Star is one that gives them trouser trouble... and as for their idea of a probe..." Well, yes, thank you Katie, we get the idea.

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  12. The McCann's do not reflect the British. We do not use their child care methods and we do not blame everyone except ourselves when we put our children at risk.

    Actually I dont think they did leave Madeleine awake in an unlocked apartment. I think the apartment was locked and she was sedated.

    I think McCann was seen by Tanner and it was not when Wilkins was there.

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  13. A spokesman for the McCanns' local police force, Leicestershire, said: 'We, nor any other UK law enforcement agency, has jurisdiction in Portugal.

    'This does not alter just because the person involved is a British citizen.

    'Therefore any deployment of officers to Portugal would have to be requested and sanctioned by the Portuguese authorities.'

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252286/McCanns-criticise-heartbreaking-failure-police-Madeleine-launch-fresh-appeal-help.html#ixzz0gCAL0V5S

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  14. The McCanns are trying to have the case 'reviewed'.

    Nice one McCanns. That would be instead of 'reopened' then?

    Obviously the last thing they want.

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  15. FOR GOD'S SAKE PORTUGAL....REOPEN THE BLOODY CASE!!

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  16. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1252286/McCanns-criticise-heartbreaking-failure-police-Madeleine-launch-fresh-appeal-help.html#ixzz0gCAL0V5S

    You may leave comments or score the comments.

    Lots of red's on the faithful followers, a lot of green's on the logical and factual!

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  17. 15 Its so frustrating isnt it! But judging by the sad judgement last week, it seems that the Portuguese judiciary is as bad as the UK media!

    I suppose we should be happy that Portugal has accepted a subservient place in Europe to the UK, but it is sad to see a once proud nation cowtailing to the UK establishment. Pity they didnt neglect or whatever they did in France instead of Portugal, I'm sure the French wouldn't obey the UK State!

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  18. Not sure what to make of this Joana guess it all depends on who that one officer was.

    Trouble is this sort of division can only serve the McCanns Id like to think there (whilst it may be low key and more selective) is an ongoing Portuguese investigation or the equivilent of one eye on the McCanns aided by the officers here. I just dont know what to believe only one thing keeps me going and thats the knowledge that their guilt is plain to see.

    What I did find interesting is how Payne covers himself and his wife; it was him who booked the holiday-he not Fiona knew Portugal- her mother says her I think its unlikely her mum would get that wrong.How Fioana NEVER EVER set foot in thae McCanns apartment all of that holiday; how the Paynes have witnesses to where they were most as they prefered to spend their time with the other couple. All very convenient and unbelievable if they were such strangers how could he describe Madeleine like he did? Obedient? Thats not a word usually used to describe such a small child and from his own testimony a stranger by all accounts. Call me suspicous but the fact they were the only ones not to leave the table that night but came with a babymonitor seems to suggest something other than innocence.

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  19. The PJ should oblige the mccanns the mccanns on condition the mccanns cooperate. It would look bad on mccanns if they refused, especially since its them who kicked a fuss.

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  20. McCanns are condemned to do this for the rest of their life. If they stop people will think they gave up on Madeleine hunt.

    The hard thing is to do this in the next three years: as time went on public tend not to believe in their appeals.

    Maybe they are committed to do as much noise as they can now. They know it won't be reasonable to go on like this many more years.

    I found both police silence a huge sign that they know much more about what really has happened to the little girl than was desirable to the McCanns. After all it's they're daily experience on the dark side of the human being behavior, eve if they are white, up middle-class and good looking doctors.

    It's not good enough when we talking about small kids neglecting is it?

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  21. Open the case, OPEN THE CASE PLEEEEESE! The child is missing, the parents are behaving suspiciously as are their friends, there was cadaver and blood sensed by trained sniffer dogs...a witness saw someone who he thought was Gerry carrying a child...the witness (the only witness of any 'abduction') is a close friend of the parents...her story clears the father....open the bloody case!!!! Reinstate Amaral as an assistant to the process...opent the bloody case for goodness sake!

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  22. 18 Good points, and of course there is the Gaspers statement!

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  23. I wish UK media people would ask the McCann's the question the Portuguese chap did...

    What evidence is there of an abdcution?

    kate's answer needs a further request....TELL US WHAT YOU KNOW THEN KATE!!!

    'I know' is not good enough!

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  24. 20 Good looking? GOOD LOOKING!!!!!

    Are there other doctors involved that I don't know about! LOL

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  25. I have been thinking about this review of the files request by the McCanns and what I think they want it done so that they can be cleared officially by eg UK cops and were wrongly made Arguida. Otherwise all that nasty stuff in the PJ files will be there forever for public view and delectation. On top of that they can hope that they will be cleared and the PJ files will be derided, discredited and denounced as vindictive against them with absolutely no merit. The files rewritten by friendly cops. McCann himself can dictate with the help of his buddies the CEOP. Let's face it the LP would surely be happy to oblige.

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  26. Wherever the liar Clarence stands as an MP, we must focus on - great opportunity to ensure that the public know about him!

    We cannot allow this creature to be allowed into our Parliament!

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  27. @22
    Yes then there's what Payne said "we were expecting something but not this" Such a strange thing to say but whose the royal "we"? The Paynes, the Paynes and McCanns (one or both of them?)or the whole lot of them? Who expects anything whilst on holiday? Isn't the whole point of holidays to relax?

    To 23 brilliant point here's the witness not Tanner.Kate KNOWS there was an abductor she knows she saw them! So come on Kate an open window when your finerprint is the only one on it and your husband was seen desperately fiddling (trying to quietly smash?) the shutters isnt indicative of an abductor. So tell us what you know you were there and "know what you saw".

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  28. http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/193611-press-freedom-click-iceland

    Good news from Wikileaks for journalists.

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  29. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VlS-gO5Ask

    Can someone knowing how to read on lips try to understand what Jerry said? Perhaps a dumb people if you are ou know one?
    This movie was filmed on a mobile phone 5 days after the disappearance of "the child".

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  30. No23 annonymous.
    The McCanns do not want a review of the whole case they only want a review of the evidence that has been sent to the PJ AFTER the case was shelved. This is the evidence they don't know about and boy do they want that info.
    The last thing they want is for a review of ALL the case files which would amount to the case being re-opened and their statements being looked at again and those of their friends. If this was done and a completely unknown team of PJ and British policemen undertook the task, the McCanns would have kittens. My word, the new police team might demand a reconstruction be carried out and that Kate should answer those annoying 48 questions - which aren't going to go away by the way.
    And that would never do, no they would rather play safe and just gain access to the info they don't have at present but desperately want. imo

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  31. Does Cameron know that Clarence has been accused by the PJ of interfering with an ongoing criminal case by 'lying through every tooth in his head', as they said at the time.

    Haven't we had enough liars, do we need more in Parliament?

    If any of us had been accused like that by the police, it would be considered very serious.

    Cameron should take it seriously, even if the spinning Team McCann liars don't give a damn.

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  32. Anon 25 - they can`t be cleared officially by UK cops because the case is Portuguese - only the PJ can do that.
    Louise

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  33. I received a letter from the Home Office last week. It was a response to my query about McCann's appearance at the CEOP. Gerry was invited because "As a parent whose child is missing, he brings a particular personal perspective". The letter than went on to say "work continues on Madeleine's disappearance, led in the UK by Leicester Police. They are continuing to explore all possible steps for further progressing the investigation drawing on a range of UK policing resources and liaising with Portuguese authorities, who continue to lead on the overall investigation, as appropriate. We continue to hope that Madeleine will be found safe and well."

    Yours Alan Campbell

    Maybe I should reply and break the news to him that Madeleine will not be found safe and well?

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  34. The whole scenery stinks. The mcs are stinking desperate in order to create a diversion from the real issue. If the mcs are genuine, let THem request further investigation from the PJ, and if not, well thats it. They will not give up on 1,2 million euros though.
    And lets face it, Britain is most definitly not an ally of Portugal, on the contrary, they think they can s h t on our backyard and get away with it.
    Jamar

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  35. 25 Yes I agree, this is their plan.
    It is increasingly important to retain the information we have.
    I hope that should they attempt to change history, the real journalists out there will come into their own.
    thank goodness for Amaral, Jo Morais and the others who continue to fight for the truth, for Madeleine.
    It angers me when the McCanns rant on about 'Someone who knows is out there' and this being about a little girl... as if we didn't know it and as if its our fault and as if us trying to get to the truth about what happened that night is damaging the investigation - when in truth it is the ONLY investigation underway!!

    I hope that ultimately as time moves on, people will see that their claims that the police and others have not done enough and they are having to do it all is so much empty rhetoric.

    I am 100% certain that Madeleine will never be found alive, and I do not say this with any satisfaction at all - I wish they were telling the truth and I wish (as they do) she had been abducted and was living in a fairy castle somewhere.

    But I am convinced that they know exactly where her remains are and how they came to be remains.

    If they had thought she had been abducted, I cannot believe they would have created false checks and distracted the authorities or have hired extradition experts. It is the direction of their actions and it is their behaviour which is and always has created the impression in me that they are not telling the truth.

    I believe that Kate and Gerry McCann should be separated and interrogated by experts in this field for the sake of Madeleine. If they were genuine true parents, they would want this - they would want their innocence proven beyond doubt and not by 'changing history'.

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  36. 33 Incredible!

    I cant believe how out of touch these people are! No wonder there are missing children when an organisation with such a profile hasn't got a clue!

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  37. Anon 33 - what a load of flannel the Home Office speak.

    "As a parent whose child is missing, he brings a particular personal perspective".

    YES, ......... BUT ........ hasn`t anyone told you dearie, HE WAS AN ARGUIDO AND STILL HAS NOT BEEN CLEARED.

    Oh I get so tired of them all thinking we are stupid.
    Louise

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  38. Louise post 32.
    My point is, cleared from a positive British cop file review eg saying the PJ cops got it wrong etc. The PJ are completely derided by the British media as it is so a positive review would clear them, but not in PT of course but that does not seem to matter.

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  39. 34 The majority of ordinary British people value the friendship of the Portuguese - even when you keep beating us at football!

    We do not support the McCann's or the media classes who have no respect for their children.

    Please don't consider all of the people of the UK as being like our ruling classes!

    Don't forget, it is the Portuguese authorities who have shelved the case, who got rid of Sr. Amaral and a Portuguese judge (two of them!) who banned Sr. Amarals book!

    As an Englishman, I support justice and fairness and the rights of the individual against the State. I was brought up to believe that truth and justice will always prevail (but am increasingly cynical!). I admire the countries of Europe (but do not support the idea that we should all become the same under a European 'Superstate').

    Do not let the corrupt governments and judiciary of Europe (and the dominance of the judiciary by the lawyers)cause us to fight amongst ourselves. The ordinary people must prove that we are, in fact, extraordinary and united against oppression and those who seek to corrupt the sacrifices of our forefathers.

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  40. On Feb 10th, outside the court in Lisbon, in response to a question about the supposed abduction of her daughter, Mrs McCann said - "I know, I was there, I found my daughter gone, I know more than you do".

    Mrs McCann, I beg of you. Please, for the sake of your sanity and mine, but more importantly for the sake of your daughter three years down the line, do tell us what you know. That's all the police have ever asked of you, and it would really help. Don't you think?

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  41. Anon 33

    You have to admit that it IS a particularly unique perspective - that of the suspected perpetrator!

    You do have to (with great reluctance) admire the McCann's - the resolve to stay out of jail - the front - its why many people can't believe that they are in any way responsible.

    Of course, they have little choice but front it out and plenty of support - and of course as doctors they were well placed to implement disposal techniques.

    I do wonder if in the background there is work underway to build a case against them - so they have to stay in the public eye to generate money to pay for Carter Ruck!

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  42. Anon 40... Precisely! An absolutely fair comment - if they want our help, shouldn't they tell us!

    After all, judicial secrecy was their reason for not being able to tell us - what is the new reason?!

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  43. Hello Joe 38 - Right, see where you`re coming from, but wouldn`t that cause bad relations between our countries? I know certain press and people have derided the PJ already and that`s bad enough - its already causing tension between our countries. LP have behaved really badly and not co-operated with PJ at all, as far as I can see. But for the LP to come out and openly declare that they think the McCanns are cleared would be the ultimate insult to Portugal. It would be like declaring war and half our population would defect to Portugal I reckon ! IMO anyway.
    Louise

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  44. Anon 39 - WOW - Very well said - thank you.

    Louise

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  45. I dont even believe the tv page in the Star (my hubby buys it for the crossword !) EVERYDAY without fail they have an exclusive on Katie Price ,where "a close family friend/a spokesman"reveals some STUPID over the top evil thing about katie ,there is always a separate column on the same page telling yet another heart rendering (puking)story of why Andre should be up for a Sainthood ,take it with a pinch of salt ,its a waste of a tree

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  46. This government is corrupt and CEOP is a ridiculous organisation. I personally hope that when McCann's are finished, as they inevitably will be, that CEOP will be finished too and replaced with something sensible.

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  47. Send these two narcissistic embarrassments back to Portugal and keep them in custody until the case is solved.
    At least and at last it would keep them and their gaggle of PR clowns off the tabloids for a few years.

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  48. Anonymous 39

    Good Post.

    An Englishman

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  49. Anon ≠39, very good post, I agree with what you say. The British people and the Portuguese people have no quarrel with one another, even if Team McCann would like to turn this into some silly Brits v Portuguese war. They've been trying to do that since the beginning, but while there have been some obvious problems in getting information, etc. I don't somehow think the UK will be going to war on the McCanns' behalf.

    Of course they'd like a review by the British authorities, but that's not at all the same as reopening the case in Portugal. Obviously the British media would spin a review as a reopening, but since they've never told the truth about this case in the first place that would hardly come as a surprise to anyone. Any British review would have no legal status in Portugal; the case remains in their hands as that's where the crime took place.

    This is all just spin and nonsense, trying to whip up some silly frenzy to take the focus of the things they don't want mentioned, such as Robert Murat's legal action against various Tapas people, and the information that came out at the court hearing.

    PS Am I the only one who's sick of the sheer childishness of the tabloids' headings? 'Maddie probe bust-up' - it sounds like something out of a comic. Aren't we to call her Madeleine, not Maddie? What probe are they talking about? The case is archived, so who's doing the probing? What bust-up? Has Kate hit Gerry with the rolling-pin?

    How I long for some real journalism and not this infantile nonsense, seemingly written by imbeciles.

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  50. Come on Kate and Gery do the decent thing it doesnt matter what any libel judge says the whole world knows you didnt answer the questions; grinned like cheshire cats days after you claimed Madeleine was abducted; that your tapas friends and yourselves thought a police recontruction "unecessary"; that the PJ never received any of Madeleine or yours health records or bank account details nor credit card; most damningly of all they know Eddie and Keela barked in too many places at too many items for there to be no doubt about your varying stories. Weve seen the real distance between the tapas bar the view from inside without it even being busy with drinking diners; weve read the only fingerprint found on the window was Kate's- if there is a good explanation for all these things why dont you ask the PJ to reopen the case and cooperate with them- because until you do no court on earth will ever clear you in the eyes of the public.

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  51. Is Maddie's issue going to become again a political issue?
    Will politicians bow for pressures in order to get votes?
    It would be stupid of the Conservatives to let themselves be manipulated by the McCanns.
    When Madeleine disappeared, the British media were not as gagged as they are now and being gagged irritates them.
    They can not publish what they know about this case.
    But they will comment Cameron's weaknesses, on an indirect way.
    The media make, the media destroy.
    Every party depends on them.

    If Cameron chooses for supporting the couple it will mean he is also supporting the Paynes.
    Besides, Gerry has always belonged to the Labour party.
    Why knock on a Conservative door?
    Very bad for Cameron's name, involving himself with suspect people.
    He could not be riff-raff or could he?

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  52. 33 - your CEOP letter is very interesting. Particularly as the McCs are complaining that the British government isn´t helping enough and that no police force is continuing the investigation!!! That´s all just to get public sympathy...

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  53. Anon 33

    Unbelievable isn't it.

    Why not reply and ask him what he thinks about the findings of the dogs in their holiday apartment and hire car, and see what excuses he would make for the McCanns then.

    Perhaps Gerry was persuasive enough to get him to believe his sea bass story.

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  54. Anon 29

    I am unable to get to see what you are meaning because it is saying it is no longer available.

    Has it now been taken off since you posted yesterday?

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  55. Gerry keeps calling for a 'systematic review'.

    How about calling for a reopening of the case first and a 'systematic review of the evidence so far' Gerry?

    Surely the reopening of the case would mean it would get the ball rolling again, and isn't that what you are complaining about.

    You complain the LP and PJ are doing nothing, not even looking for Madeleine.

    Wonder why that is?

    Could it be because they know she is dead, and it is not worth following those 'leads' you pass on to them? They are wanting leads of a different kind.

    Do they consider your leads a waste of time, money, and manpower?

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  56. POSTER 52
    Everything they do is to get sympathy ,because along with sympathy comes CASH ,the only reason they do all this, begging ,the only thing in their sorry little lives that matter to them along with celebrity

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  57. Post 33- I got the same letter, but from a different person signing.

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  58. http://hubpages.com/hub/Madeleine-McCann---Lies-True---Book-review

    AMARAL book review

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  59. @anon #33

    When you write back to them, ask what happened to the blue bag that was photographed in the wardrobe by the PJ.

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  60. FFS - Why don't the McCanns just put up or shut up. Ask for the case to be reopened or go crawl under one of the stones that they have left unturned. How much more trouble do they want to cause, how many more people are they going to ask for help. If they had asked for babysitting help in the first place we would never have ever heard of the McCanns (I wish!)

    Fu@k the McCanns, I would rather see help go to the people of Maderia

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  61. Anon 55,

    Gerry McCann has a big problem (or two) called Eddie and Keela. If the findings were done by a single dog, one could understand Gerry's reservations. But his problem is that all the findings from one dog were validated by the other. Where one found blood or body fluids, the other found scent of death (cadaverine). This is impossible to dismiss as Gerry has done. The possibilities of both dogs being wrong are next to nothing.

    Another reason he doesn't want a reopening of the case is the inconsistencies and contradictions of his, Kates and the other Tapas friends statements which they cannot explain.

    So, he talks about reviewing, not of reopening the case. Two different things. His only objective is to try to appear willing to the reopening of the investigations, before the eyes of the public. He might fool some, but not the majority that have already understood his manoevering, his tactics and way of thinking.

    So, we better get used to the idea that he WILL NEVER ask for it.

    If you notice, he appears sometimes totally irritated because the Portuguese police does not change one comma to the investigations' conclusions, and all experts opinions go along with it. He is at times apoplectic because they refuse to be fooled by him, and do not declare him innocent of the disappearance of Madie. And you will know also that there are far more anti McCann blogs around the net then pro. This is a painful thorn Gerry has in his flesh that he can't shake off. Poor guy. The only thing he can do is continue with the spin and hope that someone swallows his lies.

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  62. Anon 29. Yes incredible isnt it! Laughing and joking days after she has been 'abducted' - or even worse!

    How could he be like that? I forgot, he is a 'doctor' - but they usually struggle to deal with personal tragedy so thats not the answer.

    He must be incredibly cold hearted!

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  63. Anon 55
    "You complain the LP and PJ are doing nothing, not even looking for Madeleine. Wonder why that is?
    Could it be because they know she is dead, and it is not worth following those 'leads' you pass on to them? They are wanting leads of a different kind. Do they consider your leads a waste of time, money, and manpower?"
    Good points
    To GM, KM and CM
    Might it also be that your private detectives and your official Pink spokesman are still publicly INSISTING that Madeleine is within 10 miles of PdL.
    And that therefore any 'sighting' or 'Strong lead' which is out of step with that is automaticaly put aside by the authorities.
    Are you going to officially say that Edgar and Mitchell are wrong (and incidentally very stupid to have nailed their colours to the mast in this way)
    If not, then you are hoist with your own petards.

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  64. A suspect in a case which has been shelved (and hence 'suspect' status removed') wants to review all the evidence from the case but does not demand that the case be re-opened?

    It is quite obvious to 'the reasonable person' that this is not a request that can be responded to in a positive way.

    It is very similar, of course, to the McCann's request to become 'assistants' to the process, after they had been constituted as 'suspects' (I use this term not the Portuguese status as I do not fully understand the Portuguese judicial status).

    No doubt all criminal suspects would like to work closely with the police (whilst not co-operating to answer their questions!).

    Let us hope that the authorities are not stupid enough to start sharing all evidences with the McCann's!

    The 'search' for Madeleine is, however, important - and I agree with Kate and Gerry about that. So I support fully their co-operating with the authorities and would ask them to clarify their request in a form that makes it clear that it is an independant police investigation that needs to be re-commenced in Portugal by the Portuguese police.

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  65. I do not believe half of a split second that there is a "diplomatic crisis" between Portugal and UK.
    What there is is a massive spin,anonymous spin to deviate the attention from the R.Murat"s lawsuit and also from the mccanns lies in regard to their "reviewing" of....of what exactely? of the "evidence/leads/pics" the PJ did not bother look at because it is probably NOT worth it? May be the portuguese authorities will call their bluff and say:"Ok...lets re view this and that and the re oepneing of the case in its totallity is the only way to do it".
    Will the portuguese authorities do this?
    If they were serious because there are INNOCENT they would ask for the re opening of the case or would have prevented to see it shelved.And this is not the case.They are guilty and they will never ask for the re opening of the case.Very simple.

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  66. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/screws-tighten-on-news-of-the-world-in-damning-mps-report-1905612.html

    Andy Coulson..is he about to make way for Spin Doctor Mitchell

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  67. I wrote this to Anna Smith, another name that needs to be added to the list of infamy! A so called journalist who supports the McCann's, has two houses, one inWest Country and one in Scotland (Payne lives in the West Country...McCann is a Scottish name).

    http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/anna-smith/

    Anna,

    Read the case files before you dismiss the detective who was removed for political reasons involving your friend Gordon.

    Watch the McCann documentary and ask yourself, 'why waste so much valuable airtime debating (play acting!) which side of the road McCann was on when Tanner says she saw the abductor, only to dismiss it as unimportant'?

    Then think about what the sighting does - in addition to providing the ONLY 'evidence' that Madeleine was abducted. Let me help you - who does it clear as being the person Tanner saw?

    Think also - Kate knew Mdeleine had been abducted (she tells us, though she cannot tell us why she is so sure) yet she ran back to the Tapas Bar to tell her friends, leaving the twins alone - even though her friend Jane was in an apartment nearby (more 'nearby' than the Tapas bar).

    I know you will not give these things thought - as it would require a level of intelligence to which you are a stranger.

    Easier to be 'hard hitting' isnt it Anna!

    ReplyDelete
  68. Muito bem. Já agora, leiam isto:

    22.2.10
    Cláudia Nogueira ou a Liberdade de uma Mentecapta
    http://www.gazetadigitalodesaparecimentodemaddie.com/2010/02/claudia-nogueira-ou-liberdade-de-uma.html

    Cumprimentos

    ReplyDelete
  69. :)]to Anon 40

    "On Feb 10th, outside the court in Lisbon, in response to a question about the supposed abduction of her daughter, Mrs McCann said - "I know, I was there, I found my daughter gone, I know more than you do".

    Good point. Her statement makes it clear that no one should doubt her, the problem is... she refused to co-operate with the investigation, fled under consular protection, leaving behind evidence of doctored statements, an impossible time-line of events, a pact of silence with her friends, contradictory statements (e.g. windows, doors), false sightings (false alibi?), false accusations (Murat), certain attitudes towards children, the Smith testimony, etc. and last but not least Eddie & Keela findings and the (almost) matching DNA samples.

    And it may not have been almost if the samples were analised elsewhere...

    But OK, even assuming the McCann's are innocent, given the wealth of data the investigation has wielded; the political interferences that ultimately led to the chief investigator's resignation;the systematic abuse he was subject to by the British media (and the Mac's), the complete assassination of his character, wouldn't Goncalo Amaral be entitled to tell his own side of the story?

    A side, which by the way, is patent in the process of the investigation (not Kate McCann's side by the way).

    What makes me really angry is the McCann's waiting, waiting to see if Goncalo Amaral book sold, wait for it to make a £1 million and then make a move for legal extortion.

    ;))If anyone is impairing the so-called search for Madeleine are Eddie & Keela. SUE THE DOGS!

    The McCann's first show a deep, prejudiced contempt and disrespect for the Portuguese authorities and now at the sniff of a million they say: "We have faith in the Portuguese justice system".

    What makes me even more angry is the absurd naivete of the Portugueses judges who played into McCann's hands. They are a complete disgrace to Portugal. They have invited Evil into the country.

    b-( The McCann's have become a pathetic, pornographic camouflage of human dignity.

    :(( FIND JUSTICE FOR GONCALO AMARAL NOW!

    ReplyDelete
  70. :)]Paulo Reis

    Acabei de ler. Braavoo!

    A propósito, como sabe a versão do Gonçalo Amaral aproxima-se mais de uma leitura lógica (Occam) dos factos da investigação.

    Não existem quais-queres indícios que sustentem a tese dos McCann's.

    Eles, porque são Ingleses, tem direito a boa imagem e o Gonçalo Amaral, porque e Português, porque foi denegrido, tanto pela imprensa Inglesa como pelos "Mecanos", porque foi forcado a abandonar uma carreira na qual se distinguira, não tem direito a uma imagem corrigida pelos próprios factos da investigação? Como e que e?

    Vergonha não e da "chihuahua" que e paga para expressar o ladrar do "pastor alemão" seu dono, vergonha e do sistema de justica que temos em Portugal, das Juízas sem juízo nenhum que estão a procurar facilitar aos McCann's um estupro de mais de um milhão de Euros.

    b-( "Ajudem-nos a encontrar Madeleine!" ???
    :(( Ajudem-nos primeiro a encontrar Justiça para o Dr. Gonçalo Amaral!

    ReplyDelete
  71. Following on from an assessment I recently made on the probability of the dogs signalling the McCann’s apartment and car by chance, http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/02/isabel-duarte-mccanns-lawyer-press.html no 49, here is my assessment of the luck that the abductor had.

    Note that the probabilities here are not meant to be taken as exact. Their purpose is to just to give an idea of how unlikely the abduction theory as given out by the McCanns is. Also, where I feel there is some doubt in the probabilities, I have tried to err on the low side rather than the high side (honestly!).


    Luck factors before the abduction

    The location of the apartment - it was on the ground floor outside the resort in a very quiet, poorly lit street. (1 in 10).

    Leaving the children unattended - the abduction would have been near to impossible if an adult had been in attendance. (1 in 2).

    Leaving the patio doors unlocked – the abductor would have needed a key to the front door otherwise, since the shutters were impossible to jemmy. (1 in 10).

    Detecting that the patio doors were unlocked – if the abductor had just been looking earlier in the week, he would have found them locked. He also had some luck in not being seen while he saw the McCanns entering and/or leaving by this route. (1 in 2).

    Total luck factor for before the abduction is 1 in (10*2*10) = 1 in 400.

    Luck factors during the abduction

    Being undetected as he went up to the patio doors – the abductor had a very narrow time interval between Matthew Oldfield passing by and Gerry McCann leaving the Ocean Club entrance. It must have been touch and go that Gerry did not see him go in to the gate leading to the patio doors. (1 in2)

    Being undetected closing the patio doors – the abductor took the time to close the patio doors after him, but that in itself was a risk. Gerry must have been very near earshot of hearing the patio doors close. (1 in 2)

    Being undetected in the process of hiding in the apartment – we know that the abductor had got as far as entering the children’s room, thanks to Gerry’s astute observation of the position of the door. It is also almost certain that the abductor had not got as far as to switch on any illumination. Realistically, the only feasible place for him to hide was the children’s wardrobe but he must have made a certain amount of noise in doing so. (1 in 2)

    Raising the shutters while in earshot of 2 people – we know that Gerry and Jez Wilkins must have been in earshot when the abductor raised the shutters. These shutters are noisy so he must have been very lucky for this noise not to register with these two people. (1 in 4)

    The raising of the shutters not awakening Madeleine – Madeleine was known to be a light sleeper. She had already awakened during the previous two nights and Gerry assumed when he saw the position of the door that Madeleine had got up for a drink of water. It was lucky for the abductor that she slept through this noise. (1 in 2)

    Lifting Madeleine without her wakening – Gerry had observed that she was sleeping on her stomach just minutes before and that must have made it difficult for the abductor to get her into the classic carrying position for carrying a child, i.e. the child’s head on the adult’s shoulder. (1 in 2)

    Changing her position without waking her – Jane Tanner saw the abductor in the now famous bundleman’s pose. He could only have got Madeleine into that pose after he left the apartment, as he would need a hand free to shut the door. It is difficult to do this switch in position gently enough that itwaking the child (1 in 2)

    Not being seen while getting away – the abductor had already wasted time shutting the door and changing the position he was carrying Madeleine; if he had wasted even a few more seconds, Jane Tanner would have seen him outside the apartment. He was also lucky that Jane Tanner was not able to give a reliable description of him. (1 in 2)

    Total luck factor for during the abduction is 1 in (2*2*2*4*2*2*2*2) = 1 in 512

    statsman

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  72. (continued)

    Luck factors after the abduction

    Matthew Oldfield checking at 2130 – previous to this check, each family had only checked on their own but this time Matthew Oldfield decided he would check on the McCann children. However, unlike the McCanns on their checks, he did not enter the room and so did not see Madeleine was missing. I estimate that from Sunday to this time, the McCanns must have done about 20 checks (i.e., 5 per night for 4 nights) so this was really unfortunate that they allowed Matthew Oldfield to do this one. (1 in 20)

    Destruction of any forensic clues – despite Kate McCann knowing right away that Madeleine was abducted, there was no attempt to seal off the area so as not to destroy any forensic evidence. This may be understandable for the McCanns who were in an extreme emotional state, but it is not understandable for the other 3 doctors who must have been aware of the value of leaving a crime scene untouched. It is also strange how the McCanns, in their emotional state, were still forensically aware when they deleted their text messages so that the police could not see them. (1 in 10)

    Total luck factor after the abduction is 1 in (20* 10) = 1 in 200

    This means that the total luck factor for before, during and after the abduction is 1 in (400*512*200) = 40,960,000

    statsman

    ReplyDelete
  73. @ 24 don't be mad at me. They are not my cup of tea but they don't look ugly. They are a disgrace but they look good.

    It's not only me that have that opinion, please read Pat Brown (criminal profiler) open letter to Kate McCann.

    Their good looking has helped McCanns to save their skin at that time. And if both police has proceeded by the book (with no pressure from outside and from the media) they were in jail.

    Instead they are to busy in press conferences, running a millionaire fund, making same outdoor jogging, inviting celebrities for dinning in London for an attractive price + show, etc.

    In summary they don't loose a minute to search their little and beloved daughter... since she's gone in PDL.

    Fortunatelly for the kids around the world there are parents still "bad" parents for changing...

    ReplyDelete
  74. @ 55 a "systematic review" means "look at me, I'm so good that you are not capable to catch me". Sort of.

    ReplyDelete
  75. A terrible time for Madeira Island and for Portugal.

    My heart goes out to the families of those who have lost loved one.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Well said @ 39

    I have decent, nice and English friends. This is nothing to do with a diplomatic war between countries. Only silly people believes that. McCanns are not that important, what they have is a good money to spend in good PR and press releases.

    I used to work in advertising, if you have a brand to launch and a good money to spend + marketing consultants you'll get same effect.

    Every country has their own McCanns couple. We are plenty of McCanns around here too. It's a plague.. and they are immune to the police as well. Can you imagine?

    ReplyDelete
  77. Star + anna smith (worthless compination IMO)

    w_nicht

    ReplyDelete
  78. Dogs have found cadavers in a collapsed shopping mall in Madeira. Sad news - but sniffer dogs seem to be able to do their work everywhere, except in Praia da Luz?!

    ReplyDelete
  79. Thanks Statsman at 71 and 72

    In other words then, if there had been an abductor he would have had to have been the invisible man.

    More likely therefore that Jane Tanner saw the bundleman/eggman in her mind's eye!

    ReplyDelete
  80. Right Anon 78.

    Thank God for these dogs and the work they do.

    ReplyDelete
  81. THE PGR is the main piece to solve Maddie case.

    He Start his job as a Lion and will end up as a cat. Worse.... as a RAT. For me, he is the big disaster, a shame to Portuguese justice after more then 30 years of democracy. He seems to add mistakes on top of mistakes, and now because he is under media pressures, he start a witch hunter against who pass information to the media. Wonder why he did not endorse his hunt into the British media to ask them who pass to them all the information which suits perfectly Mccann's agenda and destroy systematically, Portugal image. Somebody, in portugal or Uk must be responsible for that spin machine. I.m shocked that i read on the Sun another news suiting the Mccann's with title- " Liar-cop-ignored-hundreds-of-Madeleine-McCann-sightings" AND THERE IS A PICTURE OF INSPECTOR RICARDO PAIVA STICKED ON THAT SPIN.

    Have the PGR move a finger to ask responsibilities about that news? NO!!! Another Inspector, which was perfectly unknown to the big public up to Feb 18, is now at the front pages of the british newspapers. WHY? Because he is incompetent or because he do his job properly and as a witness, tell the court the truth? We GUESS....

    He become inconveniently as many others if they went into the investigation and don't follow Mccann's fairy tale.

    INTERESTING HOW THE MCCANN'S MANAGE TO PLAN EVENTS TO REMEMBER THAT HER GIRL IS MISSING.... MANY MONTHS AHEAD OF THE DATE FOR WHICH THE EVENT WAS PLANNED. How They Know, the girl will be not found before and the event will be not completely useless?
    ANSWER ME MR. PINTO MONTEIRO, BECAUSE I ALWAYS HAD THAT QUESTION SURROUNDING MY MIND.

    YOU ARE GIVING US A STUPID SHOW EVERY EVENING AT THE TVS..... and it is great watching you falling down and down, every day. YOU DISAPOINT ALL OF US AND IT WAS NOT DUE TO NOTHING RELATED WITH FACE OCULTA, IT IS RELATED WITH MADDIE CASE, THE WAY THAT YOU LET IT TO BE SHELVED, THE WAY THAT YOW SWALLOW ALL THE INSULTS IN THE BRITISH MEDIA, THE WAY THAT YOU DID NOT DEFEND PJ.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Anna Smith in the News of the World(Scottish Edition) ''Yes we must defend freedom of speech. But......''. How can that statement have a 'but'? Either you defend freedom of speech or you don't. You can't have a situation where freedom of speech is limited to those who only say what the powers that be want to hear. Freedom of speech has to be just that- free. For a journalist (for want of a better word that is printable to describe Ms Smith)to say that is worrying, really worrying. It also begs the question- what is so great about her opinion on life that it warrants column inches in a Newspaper? For someone who gets a column every week to spout on abouut whatever she likes it is pure hypocrisy to criticise anyone else for wanting to put their opinion forward.

    ReplyDelete
  83. #18, and the Payne's were the only ones with an upstairs apartment, not ground-floor...considering that Payne booked the holiday himself, it's logical to assume that he got to choose who stayed where?...why choose the most distanced apartment (one which made them climb a number of stairs, with babies and an elederly lady), for himself and his family? Maybe there's nothing into it, but this case has so many strange aspects that we get to be suspicious of every single detail!

    ReplyDelete
  84. @ Paulo Reis

    Li o "artigo" de CN que soa muito à ID. Nele diz-se que "É um homem sobre quem pesa uma queixa contra as suas acções (más, por sinal, já que ninguém pode aceitar uma polícia que arranca literalmente das suas testemunhas a confissão do que quiser…)no Tribunal Europeu dos Direitos do Homem"
    Qual queixa e por quem ?

    ReplyDelete
  85. Statsman 71-72

    1 in ( 400*512*200 ) = 40.96.000

    To revert to words = almost impossible abduction.

    This was enough for the Portuguese authorities to dig up further but they shelved the case instead or were forced to as "they were many sensitive issues around Madeleine"s disappearance"...err...
    Three years later, we are left with the same incredulity and a growing list of unanswered questions.

    When is this going to stop?
    Only numbers, please ;)

    ReplyDelete
  86. And, #37, HE and HIS WIFE were the ones who left the child(ren) ALONE in the apartment, not for some unavoidable reason, nor for some brief moments, but to go out dining and wining, having "adult time", with their friends, NOT ONE, BUT ALL THE NIGHTS OF THE HOLIDAY!
    I'm sure there would be (unfortunately) a number of british parents whose children went missing under circumstances totally unrelated to their actions who could have been invited and bring their "own particular and personnel perspectives"! So, why invite a man who is highky responsible for creating the circumstances in which his daughter disappeared??? Is the CEOP endorsing leaving children that young alone as he and his wife did( and all their friends as well)???

    ReplyDelete
  87. :)] to 78

    I read that too. Good point but what bugs me is that certain New Age people's believe that the judge's decision to support the McCann's opened a flood of evil into Portugal (Madeira). I can't believe it though. Still, quite a coincidence but so much for superstition...

    :)] to Stats at 71+72. I was impressed with your trail of thought. It never occurred to me to look at it that way. Thanks. I will reflect on that and may report later. Over.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Did the McCanns approach Cameron before or after it had being suggested here Jane Tanneer could make an agreement with Murat?
    I'm sure they read this blog every day, trying to find out what is going on.
    And I still hope Jane will follow this suggestion, in order to protect her financial life.

    Again, why sacrifice herself to protect the couple?

    ReplyDelete
  89. Anon #78

    Problem in Praia da Luz is all these sea bass and red herrings.
    Dogs will have to go on a refresher course.

    ReplyDelete
  90. I know, I know the abductor! Is a cardiologist isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  91. :)] to 67

    Good thinking and very well said.

    "There is no evidence whatsoever that Madeleine has come to any harm". Their tape (nearly wrote tapas) goes on repeating.

    They may be innocent alright (did I just wrote alright?). It is the "whatsoever" in it that irritates me.

    For all I know they may be thinking:

    "The Portuguese police is stupid (the only smart aleck in there was Amaral and he is effectively been gagged). Their patsy judges are no better. Our Mitchell is on the stage telling the masses how it is. This is all going so well towards the million-nemium that we might just as well be bringing Jonathan Ross into act. Clarence is getting too bald for audience ratings".

    Good luck to the McCann's in their search for Madeleine.

    ~x( We were searching for a light of Justice for Goncalo Amaral when a dark flood of evil hit Portugal in Madeira. Quite a coincidence Lawyer Duarte and Judge Rodrigues wasn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  92. Anon 78

    But do you realise how many nappies, coconuts, sea bass and pork products they had to eliminate before they made their sad discovery? Incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, haphazard and unreliable when scientifically tested....Gerry said so.

    ReplyDelete
  93. I have been lucky enough to be taken to Portugal quite a few times since I gave up work to care for my parents. I absolutely love the country and the people, unfortunately I will not be able to go for a while due to the deterioration in my mothers condition but I have many happy memories and even more photographs. I would hate to think that that couple could cause a rift but I think most sensible people will take no notice of this trash paper.

    During one of my breaks in the Algarve my sister and I flew over to Madeira for a few days and loved our time there. She, my brother in law and neice spent last Christmas there and we are all so upset to hear what has happened.

    ReplyDelete
  94. My sympathies go to those people who are suffering in Madeira. I love Madeira having spent some wonderful holidays there.

    ReplyDelete
  95. 74 and lest we forget the flat had been foresnically cleaned. This case could be solved by putting them all under similarly forensic questioning, but there has been no will

    ReplyDelete
  96. Having watched them flying from court appearance to conferences and star studded parties i am left to wonder,


    Do they ever spend any time with their two children?
    Having lost something so precious you'd think they would be determined perhaps even to the point of obsession about keeping their two children at least within sight if not close by,and given that the two children have,in their short life experienced the comings and goings of the gerry and kate show,

    ie: tv ,media, police,p.r, etc etc,you'd think the main need in their lifes would be stability and a dull but happy routine, but instead they must be constantly asking...

    Where's mummy and daddy today/tonight/this week ?




    yet still the press and british media portray them as
    "parents el splendido".......


    an ironic joke me thinks.

    ReplyDelete
  97. This article is just another piece of McCann propaganda. Anonymous 76, so you used to work for an advertising firm. Let me propose a hypothetical situation. Let's say I'm on vacation in Portugal and my daughter goes missing. For some reason I find it important to hire a PR firm right away as well as opening up a website for the purpose of receiving donations from the public. Even though I am very tight on the mortgage payments back home, somehow I manage to get enough funds to hire a PR firm. So Anonymous 76, would your advertising firm do the following:

    Afford me the constant company of police from my own country while I was in Portugal.
    Secure the services of spokespersons with political connections.
    Launch a worldwide campaign to discredit the Portuguese police.
    Secure a meeting with the Pope.
    Provide me with preferential treatment in Portugal.
    Secure the support of millionaires.
    Sit down with the editors of the greater majority of papers in my home country to "shape the stories."
    Arrange a trip for me in the company of politicians to the European parliament.


    Just how good was your advertising firm?

    Yes, it was Portugal that archived the case, but it most likely wouldn't have happened if England had not meddled in the investigation. I keep reading all these comments pleading to have the case re-opened, but what are the police going to do after it's re-opened? They will be faced with the same difficulties. You heard the testimony of police officers that worked on the case, they said they never got the information that they requested from England, will the flow of information suddenly improve if the case is re-opened?

    ReplyDelete
  98. I see where the McCanns are courting the Conservatives. Has Gordon Brown been bullying them? I think Gerry is out to show no one will out-bully him.

    ReplyDelete
  99. There are so many aspects of this case that make you want to scream at the apparent insanity of it all, but the one that nearly drives me mad with frustration is the way the tapas crew were able to refuse to attend a reconstruction. If I was asked by the police to attend a reconstruction of a really serious case like this (leaving aside the fact that it would be to help a good friend) could I just say to the police:

    "Sorry, but I´ve got something a little more urgent to do. Afraid I can´t make it. It wouldn´t do any good anyway."

    And would the police just turn round and say "fair play, we´ll forget about it then."

    Was it really not possible for the PJ to insist that they attend? I know little about police procedure or law but to me this seems totally insane. Am I being naive?

    ReplyDelete
  100. If anyone on here gets a few minutes,go on to you tube and look at the video The McCanns behind the mask,there is a poster on there who met the McCanns when they used to go in her shop/bar for tea or coffee,she says that Gerry was very chatty when he was alone,he even fixed her laptop,but when he was with Kate he would clam up,she says one day he took Madeleine in the shop and she was dressed in a little fairy costume,and he called her his little princess,but she said one day Kate was there with Gerry and Madeleine, Kate said "he spoils that child",the poster said she was taken aback when Kate said "that child"she also says she has always thought the answer to Madeleines disappearance lies with Kate.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Kate now writes the "gerry's blog's"

    would it be lack of interest from gerry,
    would it be a battle of ego's or would it be upon advice from .....
    clarence, cartruck, or even the B.M.A,

    upon reading gerry's previous efforts at the basics of english literacy ,i'd hazard a guess it was a local primary school teacher

    "och gezza, you'se are comin' across as thick, cease thy ramblings mon,yer an embarrassment to british education "



    ...................................................................



    Day 1,000: Wednesday 27th January 2010

    "Simon Armitage has very kindly(and courageously) written a poem for Madeleine to coincide with the 1000th day since her disappearance"





    Why use the word courageously?

    It clearly illustrates that the mccanns are very aware of the fact that public support and credibility has worn thin(an understatement indeed) and that to stand up and show personal belief in the mccanns story telling is to invite public ridicule and disdain.





    .......................................................................


    Court Case( Injunction) in Lisbon 14th January 2010

    "Mr Amaral's book contains his opinions rather than fact. His opinions differ from the findings in the PJ file. The conclusions of the latter are:
    1.there is no evidence that Madeleine is dead and
    2. there is no evidence that GERRY OR I are involved in Madeleine's disappearance.


    The window:

    "I DESCRIBED TO THE POLICE EXACTLY WHAT I FOUND THAT NIGHT, as it was and is highly relevant and I KNEW that every little detail could be helpful in finding MY DAUGHTER which is OUR ONLY AIM.
    The window which is a ground floor window was completely open and is large enough for a person to easily climb through it.
    Whether it had been opened for this purpose remains unknown.
    It could of course have been opened by the perpetrator when inside the apartment as a potential escape route or left open as a 'red herring"





    MY daughter, OUR aim....
    Is kate blaming gerry for "losing " her daughter?



    ....................................................................


    Court Case( Injunction) in Lisbon 14th January 2010

    "The proposed reconstruction:

    The suggestion of a reconstruction of OUR MOVEMENTS and other key witnesses at the crime scene and/or surrounding area in the early days following Madeleine's abduction was declined by the PJ as 'not usual' for Portugal.
    When the PJ finally requested a reconstruction to take place in 2008, GERRY AND I were still arguidos and as such would have attended for a reconstruction. Some key witnesses (including some of our friends)declined to attend the planned reconstruction as they were not convinced of the aims and usefulness of it"


    "not convinced of the aims and usefulness of it"

    NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED !!





    Day 1023 : 19/02/2010 Friday

    Verdict on Goncalo Amarals book and DVD


    "The motives of those who have tried to convince the world that Madeleine is dead, and who've disgracefully and falsely tried to implicate us in her disappearance, need to be seriously questioned".


    hmmm ...48 times perhaps!




    Day 1023 : 19/02/2010 Friday
    "It is still incumbent upon the British and Portuguese authorities to ensure that every credible lead has been investigated"





    From the actions of both leicestershire and portugese police forces it appears the police are and have investigated every CREDIBLE lead.
    There must be much gnashing of teeth in many police forces throughout britain and portugal as they hear how they're accused blamed and lectured to by Kate & Gerry Mccann.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Wow, #100! Madeleine surely was a McCann (not necesseraly Gerry's tough), she had traces of aunt Philomena and Gerry's mum, but I never saw any resemblance with Kate, despite Mrs.Healy (Kate's mum) saying that Madeleine looks so much like Kate and that Kate referred to Madeleine as "mini-me".
    I think it was in the late 3Arguidos site that the subject of Kate not being Madeleine's mum was discussed, there were photos of Kate, Gerry and newborn Madeleine and people commented that Kate did not look like someone who had just had a baby.
    Just a thought...

    ReplyDelete
  103. poster 100 ,I too think Maddie met her demise at Kates hands ,she cannot look into the eyes of whoever asks her a question ,and the way she rounded on the Portuguese reporter outside court when he laughed at the word"abductor",she really has a nasty,vicious streak ,she tries to hide it ,but it is clear for all to see

    ReplyDelete
  104. Will the McCanns send one pound to Madeira, after the have cost such a lot of money to Portugal?

    ReplyDelete
  105. perhaps gerry is to upmarket now for the labour party, being as he is a wanna be celeb

    ReplyDelete
  106. :)] 99 so much media attention was brought into the case that the police stood in awe under the arrogant "clinical gaze" (Foucault) of the McCann's. Amaral admits that in his book.

    When British investigators winked in approval and the McCann's started to loose their grip on the situation they relocated to the "green, green grass of home".

    I was just reading the excellent posting by Guerra above (at 97) so if you read that, I need hit my keyboard further...

    :(( We must find Justice for Goncalo Amaral now.

    b-( Let the McCann's millions find Madeleine. They already made it clear that the Portuguese police is rubbish. The Portuguese Justice system is OK though. It is serving them well.

    ;)) "They are as naive as the Police". They think.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Joana and friends on this blog:

    We all know that the UK national press have been playing a very shifty game when it comes to people who write comments to their sites in support of Sr Amaral, or an alternative view of the Madeleine McCann case to that propagandised by the British media.

    For example, they are allowing though some anti-McCann comments to make it appear that they are offering a right of reply. However, we know that comments that really challenge the so called facts in an article never make it through a newspapers moderation team, leaving the public with the impression that while the McCanns have plenty of support, we can't challenge the newspapers' "good investigative reporting".

    Well those days are now over, thanks to a piece of Google software called Sidewiki which has been around for a year or so, but will soon take off big time. Now we will be able to publish notes and even full counter articles on every single page that contains lies about our alternative viewpoint on the mystery of Maddie's 'disappearance'.

    * With just the addition of the Google toolbar we will now finally get to have our say and not see our comments thrown in the bin by MSM moderators who seek to prevent the truth being published.

    * Supporters and the public can be educated better as to what exact lies are being peddled by the press. Making it even easier for us to spot and challenge such lies in future.

    * It annoys, embarrasses and demoralizes the opposition - OK, it doesn't kill them, but it chips away at them, especially if they have been telling great big whopping lies.

    This is all very easy, just download the google toolbar now from http://www.google.com/sidewiki/intl/en_GB/index.html - most of you should already have it if you are serious surfers.

    If you look at the image to the left of the download option you will begin to get the picture of what a powerful new weapon we have in not just disseminating the truth, but also helping to increase hit rates to this and associated sites.

    Joana - you may care to promote this useful tool on your home page and perhaps provide a Portuguese translation for further dissemination.

    Kind regards to all.

    T

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  108. Kate McCann has said some very strange things, it is hard to understand the way she thinks.

    Right off she came out with 'we're in this together' meaning her and Gerry. Strange thing to say about both of you missing a child, it makes it sound more like a criminal enterprise.

    She also said about her and Gerry 'only we know the state? we were in that night', as if they are no longer in the same way.

    Being as how their daughter has not yet been found why should that night be worse than any other.

    At least that night surely there might have been some hope she would be found not far away, wandering the streets or even lying injured somewhere.

    Recently when being interview she came out with the statement that it was not as bad now as it had been at the beginning.

    How can that be when your daughter is in the hands of a paedophile somewhere, how can it be easier?

    Now we have the media telling us they are in AGONY.

    How to fathom?

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  109. 101 Motives questioned? Simple, people want justice to be done and seen to be done.

    I am a parent - two children. An ordinary guy.

    I am just very frustrated at some of the things the McCann's and their supporters say being so obviously outrageous and yet never challenged.

    For example, Kate McCann telling us she knows things we dont know which is why she knows Madeleine was abducted. All she has to do is tell us what those things are.

    I find it incredibly frustrating that those who have freedom of expression misuse it - like Anna Smith. To have that right - our right - yet not use it to ensure that truth and honesty prevail is the most frustrating aspect of this case.

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  110. I agree Anon 109

    Yet why should the McCanns care, they are rarely challenged on anything they say as they are hiding behind their missing daughter and their agony, and people don't like to offend them by questioning their integrity.

    They told the PJ they had no credit cards and then it turned out they did when they hired a car with one.

    Could you imagine what would happen if we were to lie to the police like that? No doubt charged with something or other.

    But not the McCanns, they sail on and say what the hell they like or get some friend or relative to say it.

    People are taking it as truth, but who knows what is truth or not with these people?

    As the PJ said of Clarence Mitchell, 'he lies through every tooth in his head', we must remember Clarence is speaking on behalf of the McCanns, but they are not the ones that the PJ said it about.

    Very clever having a spokesperson when he is the one who will be singled out for the blame when he gets caught lying, albeit he is getting paid to do it on behalf of those who hired him.

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  111. 108
    Do you have the source for Kate's comment "we're in this together" ?
    Indeed a suspicious thing tosay...

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  112. #108
    What you say about Kate's sayings is interesting and I think it makes sense if you accept that that night they knew M was dead, have sinced grieved, and are now in agony again because bad things are coming out in the libel hearing.

    If you read the Vanity Fair article in mccannfiles, there is the mention that the counsellor who was helping them at the beginning said they were catatonic, their reactions being more consistent with parents whose child has died. Then Gerry had that vision, the fund was up and running and the rest is history.

    Nobody talks much about this article and I only read it recently. It is no wonder that the Team's reaction to it was not favourable at all.

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  113. Hello @ 97

    You have a point here. But let's review what went wrong:

    - police should investigate the parents and friends, passports should be kept by the police;
    - police should looked for a dead girl same time as other options; dogs would came earlier for sure, evidence found were fresh;
    - reconstitution done within days - that was very important;
    - parents and friends should be immediately charged for leaving kids alone and because they did not preserved crime scene, you have to be tough here to reach a better goal (THE TRUTH);
    - police should asked for all the clothes they dressed that night,
    - Twins should me immediately tested; They should DNA the Twins as well;
    - all the evidences marked by the dogs should be sent to France or Netherands or Spain (countries with rights tools to do it) never to England (unless they had enough material to split by two countries!!!!)
    - Gonçalo Amaral should be protected since the beginning against the press - not doing it was a huge attack, not only to him, but to the entire police. Police lost power to media and Mccanns eyes. Sometimes the image is better than what you really have inside the box!

    If police did all this in the first months, the pressure was transferred in the other side (UK, family, friends .... you name it) and they had difficulties to build such a strategy. Time made them stronger.

    Getting back to advertising: of course McCanns had a little help from their friends in the better positions. No doubt about it. Why? Because everyone bought this story: politicians, media, friends, you and I. Everybody wanted to help!

    The first hours are the most important: releasing the Maddie photo was a good strategy because in a few hours McCanns & Associates had the police very busy with false sightings everywhere. In the meantime parents friends and a recent friend were very busy planning how to get rid of...
    Having someone in the family with money and good connections is a half way to succeed. Someone that knows well how British media works was already in the field. The campaign was in the air. Target: British people. TV spots: opening the news (like prime time).

    Having good placed friends does not mean you control government members. In fact as soon as the wind started to change, the believers were too embarrassed to say something, they rather want to stay away.

    You don't know anything about Brown and McCanns relationship: I bet there is none or maybe a thin line between courtesy and second thoughts.

    Powerful people are always under a crossed fire and targeted by opportunists. That does not mean they are easily manipulated.
    But for marketing reasons it's good if you and I think they are - gives Mccanns power and status.

    Now, getting back to police. Police has a huge training. They are not naif. I believe that they were about to catch them. They had good clues but McCanns were already a few steps ahead. That why investigation should follow a guideline (do it by the book).

    Of course this is me talking - it's easy to talk. We have no idea of what police felt in the field. But sometimes we win sometimes we lost.

    Don't think I'm on McCanns side. Sometimes justice does not work well. Justice fail with Madeleine much before she's gone, justice fail when she cried for more than an hour and no one came down stair to know what was the matter, justice has failed because the hotel knew this and has done nothing about the fact that kids were alone in the apartments. Justice has failed because we still sacrificed young babies for one dinner, a chat, a drink. Justice has failed because man in power are not strong enough to put children needs above all other needs.

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  114. What I find terribly frustrating is trying to understand the difference in their initial statements to the PJ against their later testimonies to the LP. Take for instance the Paynes who had the only working monitor and hence never left the tapas bar. Fiona Payne the close friend that flies out to her friend at court never found the time- not even five minutes to visit her in her apartment all week.


    Fiona in her statement to LP tells them that she and her husband ate lunch in the apartment everyday except Thursday- that they always had some tapas friends and their children present(no one else mind you as DP and herself were isolated by their watersports- no one else to meet).Never Kate and Gerry you understand they were in their own apartment alone always - never invited?

    Her mother apparently became a standing joke amongst them because of her shopping and making lunch everyday. I wonder if she knew where her mother was at all considering she doesnt seem to really know where she slept and her mother D.Websters initial statement to the PJ is that she stayed out until late afternoon only returning to help DP bathe the children and only had lunch there on Wednesday because it was raining.

    All very strange.

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  115. For 99

    I couldn't agree more...it drives me insane not knowing why they were allowed to refuse to go back for a police reconstruction.
    ~x(

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  116. 101... imo KM and all of the McCann Company have to do is to co-operate with the Police, a re-construction would be a start, The Mcanns ask the people to help, donate, look , we all want to help, but if the parents are not being honest how can anyone help them

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  117. Guerra 97 - I get rather a sinking feeling when people talk about re-opening the case because, like you, I think it would be just the same as before with the PJ getting no help from Leicester Police. In most cases like this the detectives scour family records like bank statements, medical records, computers, phone records and I`m sure do far more investigations. Are the PJ likely to be given all this information if the case is re-opened - course not. Will they be allowed to insist on a reconstruction - doubt it. Will the Gaspars and Smiths statements be followed up - doubt it. The PJ will just come across the same barriers as they did before IMO.

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  118. @ 97 still....

    No one wants to reopen the process. Costs a lot of money (from taxes) and police will have the same difficulties as before: information does not came as requested.

    Let me tell you what I think about justice on this case:

    1) they have to live with themselves (it's hard), they know what really has happened (loss and sorrow). They have to lie every single day (its tough even for a professional liar)
    2) friends, family they have an opinion about this. Don't think they're relaxed about it. Some friends may face jail by giving false statements). McCanns may feel their actions were not approved by some of them.
    Someone may break down one day and tell the truth - it's very scary for them to have everything under control.
    3) They are condemned to go on an on with this for ever. I bet they miss the old days when they were not known. There is no rest, there is no piece. There is no a strong evidence that they are safe from justice, from a little piece of evidence that become a MATCH POINT to the police one day. It's a day at a time for them.

    Finally, time will be their big disadvantage. It's simple impossible to search for her daughter for more than two years from now. As soon as their credit get lost they have to face other hell: they have to be in court of law because of it's huge mistake to went to trial against the ex-cop. Then, maybe then there will be some human justice. Other will be brought naturally by life.

    They know that everybody think that it's all their fault what has happened to their little girl. No one approves leaving small children unattended - that's why they fight so hard to show they are doing all they can to find her. But she's gone...peace...and solitude...in Praia da Luz... sleeping 5 days after little girl's gone (it's because you know the answer...)..the window... no breaking in... deleting messages... re-arranged furniture... washing cuddle cat... the car... the dogs... the dream...the phone call to the police... the Priest... Payne... Gaspars....Calpol...

    Best regards, @ 97. Don't be so mad, careful with your heart, we never know what kind of cardiologist we can get, can we?

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  119. From the very beginning of the abduction story, they never made us think they were horrified with the paedophilia idea. Why ? How many justifications can we find to this ?

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  120. As far as I know, Madeleine was a biological child of Kate and Gerry.
    The PJ investigated it.

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  121. "Destruction of any forensic clues" - fascinating, that.

    Weren't the McCanns driven home from the airport in a Special Branch vehicle after they hightailed it out of Portugal upon being named as arguidos?

    I wonder how long they'd been associated with Special Branch? Before or after the holiday?

    http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/special-branch-%E2%80%98destroyed-shooting-evidence%E2%80%99-says-o%E2%80%99loan/

    http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/34318

    "On May 1 2001 Ulster Television broadcast an interview with a former RUC Detective in the RUC Criminal Investigation Branch (CID), Detective Sergeant Johnson 'Jonty' Brown. In the programme a series of allegations were made concerning RUC Special Branch. It was claimed that Special Branch routinely blocked investigations and destroyed evidence in order to protect informers. "

    http://www.serve.com/pfc/policing/walkerintro.html

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  122. Nigel at 111

    It was on one of those TV interviews, maybe on the news?, right around the beginning when they were still out in PDL. Very early on.

    I think it might have been the one where one of them makes the comment that each knows the other was not involved, or words with that meaning.

    I am trying to remember exactly how it was said but it is the impression of the words that are remembered.

    Yet that was definitely said 'we are in this together'.

    I think they were outdoors with sea in background, seated or standing by on a wall?

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  123. Anon 120

    There was some doubt about Gerry being the father and may have been because of the pillowcase. Gerry refuted this strongly.

    Was that really Madeleine's pillowcase?

    Where did the investigators get Madeleine's very own DNA from if there was none in the apartment and her toothbrush and hairbrush were thrown away. And, of course, there was no body to test on.

    Wasn't it supposed to have been a towel that Madeleine had used that had been given to the PDL dogs to sniff that led them down the street.

    How can the police be even sure that was Madeleine's?

    Not until her body is found can they be really sure, unless of course they have found an 'independent' source of her DNA somewhere and not relied on the McCanns to provide it. That would be far too trusting given the circumstances.

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  124. aacg ... 119
    "From the very beginning of the abduction story, they never made us think they were horrified with the paedophilia idea. "
    How true. And only eight days later they were laughing and smiling and holding balloons as they came out of church (!!!)
    And they continue to say they believe this, and that M has been held by this predatory P***** for nearly 3 years, in an underground cellar or "lair", but that they also believe she has not come to harm.
    It is called a "non sequitur".
    Or 'ludicrous nonsense' in English.

    Nice though that Clarrie has now confirmed that the disappearance is a "Complete mystery".
    So not a definite abduction then ? Has he perhaps begun to think for himself.
    He should be careful. Carter-Ruck threatened Mr Bennett for using those exact words.

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  125. Brilliant post #113, very succinct summary of the last 3 years.

    I think the majority of people on this forum also have no peace of mind because of the level of frustration when we reflect over justice that has gone wrong for Madeleine and, more importantly, what can we do about it?

    Re-opening the case is a very dangerous option unless PJ is supported by their own legal and political systems. The only evidence of support for PJ has come from their media and public opinion - I wonder how powerful are those elements in Portuguese society? The way I see it (in simplistic terms, the whole world has seen UK bully Portugal into submission. Perhaps UK citizens should lobby, protest on the street, be vocal, high profile, whatever it takes and NOT accept that the jurisdiction of the case lies in Portugal. After all, when our government sent ambassadors (were they not from MI5?), they did not accept that legally the jurisdiction lay with Portugal, so why should we?

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  126. Can anyone explain me why the McCanns pass new leads to Portugese police if the case closed?

    Sounds non-logical to me. Besides, they have private investigators who can follow up the leads.

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  127. Leaving this question again on this page, hoping to get an answer :

    In her article commented by Paulo Reis, CN says that "a complaint hangs over (GA) about actions (bad, actually, since nobody can accept a police that snatches from witnesses the advisable confession) at the European Court of Human Rights".
    Which complaint ? And which plaintiff ?

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  128. Another question which wasn't answered :

    Joana wrote somehow that CM, as a witness for the MCs, was interviewed behind closed doors.
    Why ?

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  129. #122, "we are in this together":
    See:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2007/06/03/search-for-madeleine-day-31-98487-19237808/

    "Gerry says: "We are in this together. Of course we feel guilty. We feel that we have let her down. We were not there at that moment she was abducted. But we have never subconsciously or consciously thought, 'It's Kate's fault, it's my fault'."

    Gerry said it too, apparently...

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  130. http://englandsfreedome.blogspot.com/2010/02/scotland-dark-country-ruled-by.html

    You might find the above blog post interesting, in view of this ongoing mystery discussed by your blog.

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  131. 2. there is no evidence that GERRY OR I are involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

    Isn't it an odd thing to say, there is 'no evidence' rather than 'we weren't involved'

    The way they say it seems to confirm they were involved but it cant be proven.

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  132. Nigel at 111, quote here:

    "We are in this together and, of course we feel guilty, we feel that we've let her down, we were not there at the moment she was abducted," Mr McCann said. "But we have never subconsciously or consciously thought it was Kate's fault or my fault - we're a couple in this, we're responsible parents."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1553486/Parents-have-considered-Maddy-may-be-dead.html

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  133. Anonymous 113, the "wind," as you put it had long changed when the McCanns were accompanied by politicians to the European parliament. Mr. Rebelo had already been on the case for months and the same day he landed in England to interrogate the Tapas gang, the McCanns with the help of the Labour party went on a PR stint to the European parliament.

    Anonymous 118, I wasn't angry when I wrote my comment, perhaps I was a bit irritated that there are still people who refuse to see the blatant interference that took place in this case. Maybe these people have an agenda and they do not want to acknowledge that England hindered the investigation to the point that it became practically impossible to continue. What angers me is that the British media can say or print any garbage they want and no one will challenge them.

    You say that they are condemned to go on with this forever. Sure they have to maintain that their daughter was abducted but there is no need to be constantly in the public eye. They could easily return to living their lives away from the cameras and the headlines, other couples have done it, couples who have actually had their child taken and yes even those that are still suspected of staging the abduction of their child.

    You talk about loss and sorrow; I don't think you understand the true nature of this couple. Remember, the loss of their daughter did not put any of their vacation activities on hold and it certainly didn't make them be more vigilant with respect to their remaining children. Just look at all the smiles as they displayed the T-shirts and bracelets.

    You said, "I bet they miss the old days when they were not known," you got be kidding me, they thrive on attention. Their need to be centre stage is their Achilles heel.

    In my opinion, besides avoiding prison, there are two motivating factors for this charade, money and a narcissistic need for attention. The McCanns are running a business they have been doing it from close to day one, who knows maybe they had their business plan in place well before day one. I also don't believe for a minute that they squandered the absurd amounts of money they claim, certainly not on detectives that they knew would never find their daughter.

    As I've mentioned before the McCanns are facing many uncertainties at the moment. If Mr. Gordon Brown loses the election, it will be interesting to see if there will be a change in the manner in which they are treated in England.

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  134. 128 aacg I can't say anything further, it is what it is.

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  135. 125

    Jurisdiction for investigating the case within Portugal does lie only with Portugal and it is correct that British Police cannnot go over there and investigate without authority from the Portuguese. A different country simply does not have the right to go barging into another one and start conducting their own investigations. (Unless they wish to act illegally...Bush and Blair in Iraq, that is)

    It is also true to say that if Maddie had been abducted by a stranger from Portugal then only Portugal would have jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute this case.

    UK get jurisdiction against the McCanns personally and any other British subjects due to the operation of the law in England and Wales that is applicable to them as they are British subjects. The fraud originated in UK, therefore UK have jurisdiction. In relation to homicide the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 gives UK the right to prosecute those who have committed homicide abroad and similarly the Sexual Offences Act 2003 would also give UK the right to prosecute those who have offended against Madeleine abroad. So either of the two serious offences they are suspected of, homicide, or kidnapping/trafficking UK can deal with. But if that offending was the work of a stranger in Portugal UK does not have jurisdiction, hence Kate and Gerry are seeking to demand the PJ re-open the case over there and pursue their agenda of abduction by a stranger. They need to finally accept both British and Portuguese Police know they are guilty and that is just not going to happen. Quite enough resources have already been wasted investigating this couples' spurious "evidence" and imperious demands.

    If the Brit government were seeking to shield this couple as many suggest why are the McCanns turning against them and also the British Police? They want the British Police to review their own evidence that points away from them, ignoring the obvious fact the compelling evidence points directly at them. They can send as much of their bogus rubbish as they like to both Portuguese and British Police but it will not change their minds about the McCanns, it is about time they faced it!

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  136. @anon 123

    They got Madeleine's DNA also from a medical source, probably taken at birth. It's routine in most NHS hospitals. It was confirmed as being entirely compatible with being a child of her parents, and different from Amelie's. Read the files.

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  137. Well done for finding that article Nigel at 132.

    I had not seen that, but in the TV clip I saw it was Kate who said 'we are in this together' because I remember thinking at the time that sounded strange, even like a warning shot across the bow or something.

    Perhaps Gerry cleaned it up later with the remarks he made. Just like he is doing now when the lovely, delightful, (not) Isabella suggested a 'reopening' of the case in court and Gerry is having to clean it up to make it sound like it is really a 'review' they want.

    Must not mention the word 'reopen' because the Portuguese judiciary may think that is what they really want.

    The comment about 'we are in this together' was made in a TV interview outside. It may have been a news clip. They were on TV quite a bit at one time and everybody was looking for the child and the abductor, this was before they were suspects themselves, and they were basking in the goodwill and sympathy of the public.

    Not so lately, no mention recently of their so called sightings, too many crying wolf occasions for the public to rise to that again.

    Now they have a new approach, but many people are fed up to the back teeth with seeing them on TV.

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  138. Anon 136

    Then why would they need the pillowcase?

    I have never heard of DNA being taken at birth in NHS hospitals, but would be interested to know if that is really true and how do they take the DNA?

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  139. Also, if such DNA existed, who got hold of it in the first place to have it tested by the UK forensic lab.

    Was it the forensic lab itself? Or the McCanns?

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  140. Viv, Doesn't the British government monitor the internet? By now the British government realises that many suspect, rightly, that they have protected the McCanns. There is an upcoming election, Mr. Brown is very unpopular, it would be to his advantage for the McCanns to distance themselves from his government and the British police. Don't you find the timing of these latest articles interesting? They come out at the same time as Mr. Brown starts his campaign.

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  141. @29.

    It's hard to see what is being said. I am not a lip-reader but it looks like he says two or three words and is extending them jokingly. It looks like he is saying these words in his native Scottish accent.

    It looks to me like he is saying:

    "I don't know." In a SCOTTISH accent. I think this is mocking police. I think it would sound like "eye dornt norr" in Scottish.

    Again, I must stress I am only guessing. You would really need a lip reader to interpet this for you properly.

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  142. Did the portuguese police ever recieve Madeleines medical records?I was wondering if Madeleine had frequent visits to the hospital, it may sound silly but could Madeleine be the victim of someone who has munchhausen by proxy,it is usually carried out by a female carer,ie a mother,and the perpetrator usually has medical connections,and it can end in three ways but two of those ways are the death of the child,or when the child is coming up to school age ,and it may carry on with a younger sibling.

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  143. Something to consider.
    How much money have Mr and Mrs McCann cost a)Portugal and b)Britain? So many trips abroad -USA, Italy, Portugal, Belgium etc.Police ordinary wages and overtime. Forensics labs. The dogs Eddie and Keela and Martin Grimes.The cost of using court premises -there's so many other items.Things that kind Mr Kennedy did not pay for....
    Plus, for anyone who has the time to work it out - what is their carbon footprint in all this gadding about?
    This couple are using up resources of all kinds which would be better spent on other far more deserving cases, on other really sad instances of missing children and their genuinely grieving parents.

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  144. Anon 142

    I think Madeleine's doctor said he never treated her and so there were no medical records available to send to Portugal, though there are usually some records for small children.

    Don't they need to have check ups and injections?

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  145. Anon 143

    They have probably cost a bomb for all they have had.


    Something else to consider.

    Have the McCanns ever used one penny of their own money to search for Madeleine, or for any expenses incurred in all their travels?

    Something else to consider.

    If they had to spend their own money on the search for Madeleine, would they?

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  146. Anon 125 and Viv 135 - interesting points Viv; you`ve cleared a few things up for me. But it is still frustrating that if both PJ and LP know they are guilty, none of them do anything about it. Could it be MI6 (not MI5) are the saboteurs to both sides then? MI6 do interfere in police investigations in other countries and control investigations in this country if there`s a risk to international relations. If orders come from the top, then the police can do nothing but follow those orders.

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  147. 140 Guerra

    Of course the Brit Gov monitor the internet including many law enforcement agencies in particular. It would be naïve to imagine that SOCA and LP hav e not done so, particularly given so much of the McCanns campaign has been conducted via the internet, but also I feel due to concerns about just how much of the police evidence in the case is being discussed and dissected on the internet due to fears about how to put this case on trial at some future stage without the McCanns et al being able to claim via their lawyers, “well how can we get a fair trial now”. In fact I think that is precisely why the McCanns themselves have actively encouraged dissemination of the dog findings and death theories against them. It is notable they do not encourage any dissemination of what the prosecutor has just said, they could have been prosecuted for kidnapping and trafficking Madeleine or indeed the lurid discussions Payne and Gerry were said to have by a former close friend of theirs. Sometimes what a criminal simply does not want to try and defend or even talk about can demonstrate what he feels the most guilty about. Goncalo referred to the GASPAR evidence in his book but they did not complain about that, did they?

    Mr Brown is unpopular, I think he is suffering from stress in a job he is not coping very well with and have no doubt there is a right wing conspiracy going on in the media against him to make sure he does not get re-elected. This sort of behaviour has been going on in UK since time immemorial.
    The McCanns along with Clarence and their lawyers wanted to ignore standard legal procedures in UK and present their evidence direct to Gordon Brown to demonstrate their “innocence”. This he roundly refused. There is a clear separation of powers in UK law, judges hear evidence in a criminal case, not politicians!

    What deeply concerns me is that the former editor of the News of the World, said to be Gerry’s favourite newspaper, is now Director of Communications to Mr Cameron(in short his personal dirty spin doctor), and yet it is hard to imagine a more sleazy rag than the News of the World and Mr Cameron has, we hear, just granted an interview to Kate and Gerry McCann. I fear that people have been attacking the wrong side is seeking to insist Gordon Brown has done anything at all to protect Kate and Gerry. See this quote from The Independent:
    The report was critical of the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, who is now the director of communications for David Cameron at the Conservative party. Although the committee said it had "seen no evidence" that Coulson, who was questioned by the MPs, knew that phone hacking was taking place, it still found him culpable.

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  148. 142 If UK had produced the medical records to Portugal they would have become part of the process and subject to disclosure. That would then prevent UK authorities putting the McCanns on trial, I honestly believe that is why certain sensitive and very direct evidence against the McCanns was not forwarded to Portugal. I think ultimately Portugal’s job was to make sure this was not the work of a stranger to destroy the defence of the McCanns and that is what Mr Rebelo has done by re-investigating what Mr Amaral investigated and probably a lot more guff besides from Kate and Gerry. It has cost millions but the McCanns simply cannot say they were not listened to. And both UK and Portugal can say quite categorically they lied and they failed to cp-operate. They had the opportunity to demand that Portugal continue to look for some fantasy stranger abductor and chose not to do so, that is because they knew the strength of the case against them and also knew that in spite of their best efforts, confidential information against them, held by UK authorities was not going to be disclosed to them or be allowed to be reported in the press.

    146
    I know that it is frustrating but the Police have to listen to the lawyers who will be telling them, what you have so far would not secure a conviction and therefore we cannot proceed. I have always said the McCanns are clever and IMO this was planned. But that will only make the police more determined, they will get them in the end, but we need patience and to accept that if they went to court with very little the McCanns would walk out laughing! IMO this case is incredibly complex and when it gets to court will be listed for months and have countless thousands of pages of evidence, if not millions!

    The risk to international relations is the offence caused to Portugal by UK holding back on certain information to make sure we can get them. A conflict of laws and procedures, at the end of the day I firmly believe those in real power and authority in Portugal know the score exactly and are not offended. There is a massive financial burden in continuing to investigate these British subjects who are in Britain, it makes no sense for Pt to continue to shoulder it.

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  149. My goodness Viv - thanks for that. Need to read it over a few times tho`.

    In your answer to 142, what do you mean by "If UK had produced the medical records to Portgual they would have become part of the process and subject to disclosure" ? I don`t quite get that bit.

    146.

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  150. Madeleine's medical records were denied to the PJ. If they had been sent they would likely be at the process files, thus probably disclosed when the secrecy of justice was lifted anonymous 149.

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  151. Joana thank you. Got my head round it now. Sorry to be a dimlo.
    149

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  152. Anon I am sorry subject to disclosure is a legalistic sort of phrase and the full meaning of that would not be clear to someone who has not worked in the law. I do try and avoid them, but thanks Jo for explaining so well what I actually did mean x

    In UK criminal and civil procedure it is probably true to say that lawyers like to hold their cards very close to their chest and not let the other side know what they have, exactly as in poker really. So having to disclose anything at all to the other side can be an argumentative and difficult process even though when cases actually come to court both sides are supposed to give full and frank disclosure of all the evidence they intend to rely upon, but not in the earlier stages. In this case I think UK would have been fearful that disclosing to Portugal would ultimately be disclosing to the other side because Portugals legal rules provide that they must disclose all of the file to Kate and Gerry and to the public, both things UK prosecutors just would not want to happen whilst the case is still only at the investigation stage. If the public get to know and discuss the evidence, it is said that can damage a fair trial because a jury may be biased by what they have heard, already forming a view as to guilt rather than just fairly hearing the prosecution evidence. If the suspects get to know they become one step ahead of the police and make their job harder. I am pretty certain UK will have been telling Kate and Gerry very little and of course fought them at the High Court when they tried to demand the police file which no criminal suspect is ever permitted to see.
    Not that normal legal rules that apply to criminal suspects ever troubled Kate and Gerry of course, they are far too important to worry about such trifling matters=))

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  153. Just a small thing but have you noticed what I noticed very early on in interviews and I refer to the two very different ways Kate speaks. When she is speaking about her profession she comes across as articulate and mature. Yet when Kate talks about emotional issues, such as not seeing Madeliene since she was three, she reverts to very simple sentences which sound almost childish. It's just an observation but I have known of Asperger sufferer's who behave in a similar way. Of course this may not be why Kate behaves this way but bearing in mind that so many asperger's do high powered jobs and extremely well, whilst remaining emotionally detached in their relationships and dealings with others.

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  154. It is pretty obvious to everyone everywhere that this Portuguese judge is working with the McCanns and for the McCanns and for the millionaires financing the McCanns and that she was instructed to come to that decision. It does not take a genius to see that. Democracy and freedom of speech isn't a bit important.

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