1 February 2010

Mr Krugel's Claims Regarding the Location of Madeleine McCann


A Mr Krugel, at the McCann's request, attended Praia Da Luz last week from South Africa alleging he could assist in locating Madeleine McCann. I have spoken with the Police officers that accompanied him and viewed the documentation Krugel has supplied to the PJ.

The limiting factor in coming to a view is that Krugel did not allow anyone to view the handheld device he had with him or observe him using it. He was unable to provide any validating scientific data or documents to support the claims he made or the device he alleged to have with him.

In short he would appear to claim he has uniquely developed a handheld device that can find a missing person alive or dead in any given terrain over any elapsed time period.

In debriefing the officers who accompanied Krugel it is possible to hypothesise what he may have been doing and using.

In consultation with a colleague Dr Wolfram Meier-Augenstein we feel he may have been attempting to give the impression he had developed and was using a "Remote Laser based gas sensing device". However his claims regarding the distance of detection, up to 20krn and the use of a hair sample are highly unlikely and would be a great innovation in the scientific world. Further provenance of this technique could be sought from Prof. Miles Padgett who is a Professor of optics in physics at the University of Glasgow.

One obvious challenge to the claims of the device capability is that if Krugel claims that by taking 3 separate location readings he is able to triangulate to an area then one would assume that as an area was identified further reading and triangulation inside that area could be conducted repeatedly until an "X marked the spot".

Of most concern is the poor quality of his report which merely shows a google earth image of an area to the east of Praia Da Luz and includes open scrub and, beach and sea. As Krugel was not prepared to allow the device to be viewed or provide any specification data of readings or equipment and the fact that no known device currently exists commercially or academically then I can only conclude that the information he has provided is likely to be of low value.

by Mark Harrison MBE, National Search Adviser Homicide, Missing Persons, Mass Fatality Disasters in National Policing Improvement Agency [NPIA] extract of document 'Madeleine McCann Search Decision Support Document' dated 23.7.07 - page 2224/2225 of the 201/07.OGALGS Investigation Process




106 comments:

  1. Proche de la schyzophrénie paranoïaque ce Monsieur Krugel? Hier à la télévision française, un excellent film retraçait la vie de J.Nash, qui dans ses accès de maladie couvrait aussi les cartes de réseaux de fil pour trouver l'emplacement des agents communistes infiltrés.L'appareil magique que Krugel veut cacher me paraît tout-à-fait relever du domaine hallucinatoire.

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  2. I see from the date of this article in 23.7.07 Krugel was exposed as a charlatan!! Strange he should suddenly surface again after almost three years??

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  3. Sounds like Mr Harrison knows about searching and it sounds that Mr Krugal has a travelling medicine show.

    Properdad

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  4. "low value" - very well put Mr. Harrison - now get over to Lisbon as Mr. Amaral's final witness
    (I can dream can't I?)

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  5. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2833105/Birthday-gift-from-Maddie-McCann-for-twins.html

    Obscene...

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  6. Nothing in yesterday´s Star suggested to me that Krugel HAS surfaced again. I don´t really understand why they published that old stuff, unless it was for this:

    'Kate and Gerry,both 41, of Rothley Leics. are convinced Maddie was abducted and is still alive.

    But Krugel said: "I believe the truth will come out..."

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  7. Possibly this was pulled out of the hat by the Express who wwere humilitad by the McCanns..Charlatan or not he is saying what we all know Madeleine is dead.

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  8. post 6...the Express every now and then like to have a dig at the Mccanns...They all know whats going on but have been gagged by 'Super Injunctions'. I would imagine David Payne has his own Super Injuction after the chatter in english bars about Katherine Gapspars statement here in Spain. All thanks to the Euro Weekly.

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  9. Anon 1

    Proches de la camisole de force.... :D
    May be une lobotomie.....?

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  10. But he says a full search for Madeleine, who vanished shortly before her fourth birthday on May 3, 2007, never took place. Krugel told the Daily Star Sunday: “If they want me to go with them I will.



    SEARCHES IN THE AREA AROUND VILA DA LUZ

    As planned, the searches with Eddie go ahead in and around the village. To leave nothing to chance, he is also put to inspecting the area outlined by Krugel.

    Mark Harrison organises a big meeting to direct the work of the search teams. He has conceived the idea of iron bars, whose production he has consigned to a local company. They will be used to sink holes into the ground which will facilitate the possible release of gas emanating from a decomposing body......Truth Of The Lie

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  11. Sorry, I don't want to offend the guy, but his hair reminds me that of Clarence Mitchel.

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  12. The important thing for the McCanns is that it is further evidence that right from the start they consideered the possibility that Madeleine was dead and that it is well in the public domaine even now. Bon chance Snr Amaral.

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  13. National Farmers Union has written to the Government complaining about the release of Chinese lanterns. Apparently coastguards have been alerted about these lanterns with people thinking they are flares (ooops when did we hear about that?). The lanterns can travel for up to 1000 metres and land in fields. It has been known for animals to ingest the wire from these lanterns and die from the results of eating it. Oh! dear,Oh! dear, Oh! dear. I wonder if we will hear anything from Team McCann about their actions the other evening in releasing these lanterns in the light of their potential danger. You would think a pair of doctors would know better wouldn't you?

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  14. Ironside, i agree i think the press toy with them, the Krugel article appeared in the press at the weekend and voila has vanished. The press are going to have so much fun when the truth comes out, McTwat is going to combust. The so-called source who said Pinky warned them not to go to Lisbon is i think the start of the STFU, a shot across the bows. The people in the know who have supported them for whatever reason must have pics of McTwat on their dart boards. I see an ending similiar to David Kelly if he doesnt listen
    Liz

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  15. Carol 13 yes you are right but when have the McTwats cared about anything or anyone but themselves.
    Liz

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  16. As I was watching Desperate Housewives( I know, love it!!) the other evening I noticed a very interesting phrase said by a mother to her son taken by the police,"remember it's like the fish, if you keep your mouth shut you wont be caught".
    I thought of someone straightway.
    48 Questions and no answers...

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  17. Birthday gift 'from Maddie' for twins The Sun

    By ANTONELLA LAZZERI
    Published: Today

    MADDIE McCann's sister and brother celebrated their fifth birthday with a party yesterday and a present from their missing sibling.
    Parents Kate and Gerry held the special bash for twins Sean and Amelie.

    They always buy the pair a gift from their missing sister for Christmas and birthdays.

    The twins are a year older than Maddie was when she vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal on May 3 2007.

    A source close to the McCanns said the party at their home in Rothley, Leics, was "poignant" but Kate and Gerry, both 41, did everything they could to make it a happy day.

    The source said: "Milestones like this are hard for them. Kate and Gerry are determined to give the twins as normal an upbringing as possible."



    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2833105/Birthday-gift-from-Maddie-McCann-for-twins.html#ixzz0eHYVHisv


    A nice paedophiliac monster allows Maddie to send birthday gifts.

    B., Germany

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  18. http://pix.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/782/373593/135x135_8PHWMsheuT.jpeg

    Mr. Krugel???


    Beata, Germany

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  19. Fernis 11 Lol, exactly what I thougt. If this were not so tragic, it could blow a constant underlying the laughter.
    Dutchman

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  20. Can any onyhelp I have just joind Twitter and am having problems...how do I join this conversation on your blog Joana.

    STRAIGHTAS...

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  21. Anon 17, thank you for the article. I would have thought it better to be more truthful when dealing with the twins. Who gave them the advice to do this? How long do they plan to keep this up. If the child is
    still missing a few years later the twins will be asking questions on how the gifts from their sister get there. Also the twins could mention at school they got gifts from their sister and other kids might say something or wonder how they got the gifts from a missing child.

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  22. It may well be that the McCanns hired Mr. Krugel to demonstrate their 'innocence'. They seem to feel that their strongest argument is, "Look at us, would we be doing all this if we were involved with Madeleine's disappearance?"

    But by hiring Krugel the McCanns were tacitly admitting the possibility that Madeleine could be dead as long ago as 2007; after all, that is what the guy was saying.

    With the hearing of the remaining witnesses for Dr. Amaral's appeal against the injunction in the Lisbon court fast approaching, it is obviously a fitting moment for the Daily Star to remind everyone of this fact.

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  23. Surely if Krugel has had this device for several years AND it does what's claimed, it would by now be in use by police forces all over the world and he'd be a very rich man? Nobody would keep such a device secret, not when it would have such massive potential in missing person or murder cases, something of real value to mankind.

    I read on a website (sorry, no link) that there were rumours he'd sold the first device and was working on a second, but I don't think there's any proof of that, just hearsay, so probably not true. I wish he could find Madeleine's body, but don't think it's likely. In any case, there may by now be no body to be found.

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  24. Reply to Anonymous 17

    Absolutely gob-smacking article from ANTONELLA LAZZERI of the Sun isn't it? Fancy teaching any young child let alone the McCann twins the importance of "stranger danger" by giving them the false & utterly irresponsible impression that child abductors allow children they abduct to send gifts to their families as if the child had been abducted by Santa Claus. Good grief! ~x(

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  25. Let's get this straight:

    1. It is in the public interest for the UK press to reveal that John Terry slept with Wayne Bridge's ex-girlfriend.

    2. It is not in the public interest for the UK press to reveal the contents of the Gaspars' statements.

    Obviously there must be at least one judge somewhere with an explanation for this.

    I saw Michael Mansfield QC on a TV interview, yesterday I think. He said the whole thing needs to be reviewed, if info is out on the internet in the public domain why are the courts still bending over backwards to stop it getting into the papers? Mr Mansfield seems to be on our side.

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  26. 17. Well said. It must be scary for the twins to get such gifts. 'Milestones like this are hard for them'??? That's exactly what they have been doing since M went missing, making milestones. Presents, presents, presents (Kate's vocabulary). Mccanns please stop your materialistic behaviour, show some humility, go find your daughter or stop cheating and give the twins un upbringing as normal as possible.

    M. Netherlands

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  27. 20, the conversation isn't really a conversation per se, twitter works as micro blogging, where 'posts' only have 144 characters, hashtags like #mccann, #injunction, #carterruck, are used in those mini-posts/messages to define a topic and are used also sto search a certain issue; the hashtags may also denote a trending topic, for example when Tony Blair was heard on the Iraq inquiry the hashtags used were :#blair, #bliar, #iraqinquiry, #chilcot. You can log on to twitter, then search for example #mccann or just the word without hashtags and see what is being said and by whom, you can also start following people who share a similar interest, who in return may or may not follow you. Regarding the twitter widget on this blog, I set it so we can all read what is being said about the #mccann case on twitter, however several twitts for the word mccann don't appear - if I had set up the widget for 'mccann' only off-topic twitts would appear, for example about 'McCann and Erickson'. If you need any more help follow me https://twitter.com/xklamation and send me a direct message there. good luck!

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  28. The McCanns are drumming the propaganda (that Madeleine is still alive ) down the twins throats . Well they have to don't they ? When the truth comes out , the twins will be more confused than ever . The Macanns , are twisting the twins minds they will grow-up disturbed . God help them , they won't know who to believe for years to come .

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  29. Post 20...Thanks Joana that is as clear as mud....lol....have ,I think just sent you a direct message...not sure. I am ..@Straightas

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  30. Re twittering - on Mary Queen of Scots (film made in 1971) Nigel Davenport has just referred to the "twitterings of the French court" - always ahead of the game, those French (sorry, OT I know)

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  31. Post 28. When the twins hear from their school friends that Madeleine is dead (parents talk, children overhear) will there be playground fights?

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  32. hi from germany!

    thx & kudos, joana, for this excellent blog & all the work translating for us non-portuguese-speakers. if it wasn't for you and other likeminded people who share their thoughts & materials, i would've never had access to all this information. reading articles in the german media feels like second hand info. also, with the exception of christian lüdke, i don't know of any german journo/expert who would give a well informed interpretation of the mccann case. thanks to bloggers i was able to read sr. amaral's book in english translation online - so, there's actually something good about the internet :)

    @anon31: bravo, that's exactly what i was thinking - the twins being harassed by school mates, deluded & instrumentalised by parents, peered on by the media... this thing about the "birthday gifts" makes me want to puke...

    i think mccanns are classic dostojewski: concealing a crime for so long, making money out of it, plus betraying your own conscience - the heap of guilt you keep accumulating makes you insane eventually...

    greetings! keep up the good work!
    eric

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  33. Thanks Joana ..I am twittering...tweet tweet..lol..

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  34. Post 31

    We know some children can be very cruel , bullying is devastating and has lasting effect on children . I feel the twins will have to become bullies , they will have to be strong in order to survive the taunts of other children . They have a very good teacher in their father .

    McCann is a bully . No doubt they will copy him in order to protect themselves . If they don't become bullies themselves their in for it unfortunately . Other children will make their lives hell . It's a shame , they are the innocent victims in all of this and don't deserve , the grusome twosome for parents .

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  35. hi Eric from Germany, welcome, and thank you for commenting.

    33 glad I could be of help :)

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  36. When the twins are teenagers and they have access to social network sites and 'youtube' this story will probably still be rumbling around, can you imagine what watching all the videos and reading all the conflicting stories would do to them. I think it would be devastating for them, however the other question would be how would K&G handle the twins when they do come of an age when they ask questions. A nightmare for all involved IMO.

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  37. We are all Sean and Amelie.

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  38. sorry to be off topic, Did Gerry speak at the ceop conference?

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  39. Ironside 8
    The Euroweekly article has been pixelated oujt in the on-line version
    See the Marbella edition, No 1281, page 12 (I think)
    Do we know if the print version hit the streets ?

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  40. Is gift giving reciprocal ? Do the twins purchase one for their sister's birthday ?

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  41. @ 36
    The twins imo are the main reason why the MCs can't go backwards and sue anyone contradicting their version of events. Reflect for a second and imagine yourself in their shoes NOW. What would you do ?

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  42. Birthday gift 'from Maddie' for twins

    By ANTONELLA LAZZERI - The Sun

    The source said: "Kate and Gerry are determined to give the twins as normal an upbringing as possible."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    What Antonelle Lazzeri's article & Kate & Gerry's "source" fails to completely recognise is that the McCann twins are also victims in this case and in desperate need of their own individual support separate to that of their parents support.

    How to Support Siblings of a Child Who is Missing

    http://www.ehow.com/how_5212858_support-siblings-child-missing.html

    Sadly I feel, Kate & Gerry's such desperate desire for public support for themselves, as parents, far outweighs their "determination to give the twins as normal an upbringing as possible" after reading for myself advice on how to support siblings of a child who is missing from the link provided.

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  43. T4two at 22.

    Exactly, I think you have that right.

    And I don't believe for a minute they are sincere in thinking this man may really know where Madeleine is.

    It is all distraction, and by throwing in this guy they hope it will distract from them, because after all, haven't they tried to find Madeleine even if she is dead!!! That would be the argument they would use.

    I used to think Madeleine was somewhere around PDL and I still think she was at one time, but now I'd say look closer to home, as every distraction so far has had people looking away from there.

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  44. Au sujet de l'article du Sun, il semble complètement fou d'offrir un cadeau à des enfants de la part de leur soeur soit-disant kidnappée, en sous-entendant que c'est elle qui leur envoie.

    La seule façon de faire passer cet acte étrange( mais a-t-il réellement lieu ou est-ce de la propagande?) serait de leur dire que si Madeleine était là, elle leur ferait un cadeau, donc les parrent le font pour elle , sachant que cela lui ferait plaisir. C'est plutôt tordu comme raisonnement, si cest la vraie raison et non celle que je suspecte, à savoir l'occupation permanente d'un terrain malléable.
    C'est faire vivre constamment des enfants sous les yeux d'un fantôme qu'ils doivent maintenir dans sa pâle vie d'ectoplasme, en pensant sans cesse à lui. Un fantome retenu captif quelque part par un kidnappeur que ce sera à eux de retrouver. Eux qui, il ne faut pas oublier, étaient présents lors de son pseudo kidnapping. Eux qui s'en voudront plus tard de n'avoir rien pu faire pour secourir leur soeur. C'est irresponsable de la part des parents. A moins qu'il ne s'agisse de supplanter dans leur inconscient des visions d'une tout autre nature qui auraient pu les marquer ce 3 mai.

    Pauvres enfant voués ainsi à la schizophrénie et au remords. Déchirés entre l'ombre d'une soeur qui a besoin d'eux pour survivre et l'ombre d'un kidnappeur qu'ils se doivent de retrouver puisque tel est le désir de leurs parents. Quel transfert de culpabilité!

    Non contents d'avoir abrégé la vie d'un de leurs enfants par leur égoîsme, il faut qu'ils empoisonnent l'existence des deux autres pour servir les impératifs de leur "wide/wild agenda"

    Voltaire

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  45. Anon 36 -

    It won't be many years before the twins think to themselves that Madeleine is the be all and end all as far as their parents are concerned (or appear to be concerned). They will end up resenting Madeleine knowing she has taken up more of their parents time than they have. It's only natural.

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  46. Anon 28, yep those poor kids will end up mentally disturbed just like mum and dad, the authorities need to keep an eye on those kids

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  47. CEOP - well maybe Gerry pulled a last minute sicky for the conference or erm maybe he had sudden pressing business engagements. If he did speak he is certainly not wanting to get Clarence to brag about how well it went, or put one of their favourite little a friend said in a Brit paper and gawd knows they would report it! So did it go favourably for him, it don't look like it. But there again, I though 1) they think he is innocent 2) they are doing what Brit cops are very good at doing to put lying offenders on the spot. I just figured it had to be number 2 because no person in their right mind, let alone a top cop could think this guy is innocent!

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  48. Joana, I like the tweeting hashtag Bliar for Blair, Psycho(path) would have been another good one, along with his control freaking mate Bush, another bloody gruesome twosome!

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  49. The twins won't need to watch you tube as they will be visiting their Mum & Dad in jail when they are teenagers. That should give them some idea of what happened to Madeleine.

    I do agree that the twins need someone to keep a careful eye on them. If the social services are not making regular check ups they will be as guilty as the McCanns if god forbid anything should happen to he twins. They are not living in a stable enviroment with stable parents. Someone in the Social Services with balls has to make sure of the twins health. Lower? class citizens would have already been charged, convicted and kids adopted out.
    Wonder if the felloew inmates will treat Gerry the same as the British leagl systems are. My thoughts are that Gerry would have to be isolated to keep him from being ripped apart by the other inmates. Prison justice is a weird thing.

    Willo.

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  50. I see that medival England still exists where a witch hunt and people follow like sheep and point the fingure with self-righteous contempt even with with no direct ewvidence. I really hope Madeleine turns up for her sake.

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  51. Voltaire post44

    C'est un comportement tout à fait bizarre si c'est vrai. Le but réel serait donc d'imposer aux enfants la certitude d'une soeur non seulement bien vivante mais pratiquement présente avec l'intention additionnelle de leur créer des faux souvenirs - Madeleine était bien là puisque j'ai tel ou tel cadeau comme preuve. Je croyais que les parents étaient conseillés par des psy, mais je ne peux imaginer que cela fasse partie des recommandations!

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  52. 32 Eric - well put, this case is indeed like something thought up by Dostoyevsky.

    Raskolnikov convinced himself that killing the old pawnbroker woman was not a crime because she was doing no good to anyone... but himself was not able to live with the psychological consequences.

    Amaral as Porfiry Petrovich, the detective that outplays Raskolnikov at his psychological game... very apt analogy.

    --Trismegistus

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  53. The article of Antonella Lazzelli on the Sun is ironical when she refers to a normal life for the twins.
    She is calling the attention to the fact that the twins are not having a normal life.

    This story was not important enough to be written unless the Sun wanted to show that the McCanns are not normal.

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  54. Why is david payne not suing amaral and several blogs?

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  55. I just sent an email to euroweekly in spain, asking them if the paper edition about the McCanns was sold in Spain.

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  56. Tive sempre a impressao de que este senhor foi chamado para distrair o publico e ludibriar a PJ, enquanto eles (Mccann) ganhavam terreno e tempo noutra paragem, para esconderem a vontade a encomenda que os atrapalhava.
    Acho que este senhor foi o primeiro beneficiario dos dinheiros do Fundo. Ele pode ser oportunista mas nao e estupido. Por isso tera juntado pecas do puzzle no contacto que teve com os Mccann, e foi preciso CALA-LO E FAZE-LO REGRESSAR RAPIDAMENTE A AFRICA. SERIA INTERESSANTE SABERMOS SE OS LOCAIS QUE VISITOU NA PDL FORAM DE INICIATIVA DELE OU DOS MCCANN....

    Os caes nunca se enganaram e nao sao manipulaveis.
    6 cadaveres numa semana para uma medica de clinica geral que exerce em Part-time, sao prenuncio de catastrofe comparavel a do Haiti.... E os UK ainda constam do mapa geografico.
    um peluche de crianca numa morgue ou a presenciar autopsias, merece a analise perspicaz de Sherlock Holmes.
    levar para ferias as calcas com que se observaram cadaveres, e digno de alguma reflexao. sobretudo quando vemos o quao informais as calcas sao e o quao formalmente vestido esta o marido da senhora, no seu posto de trabalho, exercendo a mesma profissao. OU SERA QUE A SENHORA OBSERVAVA CADAVERES COM O ESPIRITO E A POSTURA DE QUEM ESTA DE FERIAS?
    ONDE ESTAO AS CERTIDOES DE OBITO DOS 6 CADAVERES? E de toda a urgencia apresenta-las publicamente, ate porque a senhora nao corre o risco de ser processada, e perder dinheiro, por quem ja nao existe. Ou sera que corre? E que a mesma senhora acreditou ser possivel mover um processo contra a policia, em nome da sua filha desaparecida, que muita gente acredita existirem provas de que ja nao existe. E UM TRIBUNAL DE BRINCAR FEITO POR JUSTICEIROS FANTOCHE ACEITOU A QUEIXA E POS O PAIS NAS BOCAS DO MUNDO, mostrando que ha justicas convenientes, censuras convenientes e filhos de deuses menores.

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  57. The twins are growing up and they will put the jigsaw pieces together. They live in the same house as their parents, they heard conversations, they saw things. they will connect what they heard and saw at home, with information which circulate in the net, in the media and at their school friends houses. THEY WILL FIND THE TRUTH AND THEY WILL START A REVENGE AGAINST THEIR PARENTS because there is a certain type of behaviour which is inexcusable and hard to forgive-- having presents from a sister which no more exists. Believing in monsters that can snatch them at night leaving no traces. Watching the parents planning events long term ahead, when at the same time they ask them to believe that their old sister can walk trough the door on the next hour. Growing up watching their friends going to one of the best and the first beach holidays destination (the Algarve)in EUROPE, and having the feeling that for them the place is a demoniac destination.
    WHAT A SHAME FOR THAT POOR TWINS, raising gagged and surrounded by an imposed blindness. THEY WILL CRY FOR FREEDMON.

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  58. MARIO CRESPO, jornalista incomodo para o governo, censurado no JN a pedido do PM ou com medo que o jornal perca credito junto de quem o financia?

    AH! AH! AH! BEM-HAJA INTERNET e os demais jornais portugueses que nao se deixam manipular. UM ARTIGO DE OPINIAO, ACUTILANTE, QUE PODERIA PASSAR DESPERCEBIDO NO JN, ESTA HOJE NAS BOCAS DE TODO O MUNDO, GRACAS A NET E AOS QUE LUTAM CONTRA A CENSURA, PROVANDO QUE E DIFICIL CALAR VERDADES QUANDO ELAS MEXEM COM DIREITOS FUNDAMENTAIS.
    QUE A JUIZA GABRIELA PONDERE COM CORAGEM E DIGA NAO A CENSURA!!!! PORTUGAL PRECISA DE REFAZER O 25 DE ABRIL DE 74, em nome dos que perderam a vida na defesa de valores fundamentais e das geracoes que ainda nao nasceram e nao tem culpa que um dia, em Portugal, um casal de pais negligentes tenha perdido a filha como quem perde o botao da camisa. Assim perdendo apenas. Como se fosse possivel e plausivel perder alguma coisa dentro de casa e depois nao se conseguir achar. TERAO FEITO A VELHA LENGA-LENGA QUE A MINHA AVO ME ENSINOU: APARECA, APARECA, O DIABO SEM CABECA?...
    Comigo, a lenga-lenga sempre resultou. SEMPRE ENCONTREI O QUE PERDI DENTRO DE CASA.

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  59. Anon 51

    Instead of falling for the McCanns' abduction spin, why don't you try reading the findings of the official investigators, who came to the conclusion that Madeleine died in the holiday apartment. These investigators also include the UK police who came to the same conclusion.

    This is in line with the findings of the best dogs in the world, indicating death in the apartment, and cadaver scent from a dead body in the boot of the McCann's hire car.

    So, are we all supposed to close our minds to this and pretend it is not true, so then we can all go on believing whatever the McCanns tell us to believe, when they can produce no evidence whatsoever there ever was an abductor.

    You are living in cloud cuckoo land.

    Dream on.

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  60. So does this imply that the Euro Weekly News has been carterrucked too then?

    http://www.euroweeklynews.com/component/option,com_flippingbook/catid,5/id,193/view,book/

    Page 10.

    Nice, further, misuse of funds again.

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  61. Anon 51

    It's a tradgedy whichever way one looks at it.
    The trouble is, I can't sit around giving the 'benefit of the doubt' to a couple who have (along with their freinds) undoubtedly obstructed the investigation, created a private company to fund a private investigation that has no juridiction to investigate in Portugal, and refused to answer questions from the Police.

    These people seem to have created a veritable blueprint of how to dismantle an official police investigation through PR, media and influence and it is because of this and this alone that I follow this case with interest.
    I too hope Madeleine turns up, for her sake. Although, even if she does, I feel her parents have done nothing to make sure that a proper police authority has been given the best chance to find her and the truth about her disappearance.

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  62. Somehow off topic but I just found this bit of article in Der Spiegel I had filed in my McCann's file back in 2007:

    "Instead of dropping off their Budget rental car containing the ominous traces of blood and hair at the airport in the southern Portuguese city of Faro, the McCanns left it in an unknown location. If necessary, they said, they would order their own forensic tests."

    Now, if I remember correctly, the car was subsequently returned to the rental company and was several times leased afterwards. How could they hide a car that didn't belong to them? Someone lying here?

    As to he promised independent forensics where are they? Was this just bravado, sand thrown into our eyes? Were they so frightened of what independent forensics might find that they dropped the whole idea? Seems so. The McCanns are real good "red herrings" munchers IMO.

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  63. In a casket by the home altar? No no... I think she is somewhere near PDL. That's also the reason why Kate needs to go there even thou it's so hard and emotional.
    I'm still wondering what was that couple in the pet crematorium? Did the PJ find out?
    In my version she was dead on 2nd of May at the latest...

    //Susanna

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  64. There is no doubt in my mind that Madeleine's body was buried far out at sea. The'abductor' was seen carrying a child towards the beach.

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  65. If this doesnt wake up the many fools who think the McCanns are 'innocent'...we can give up on them...though some are beyond redemption (Fiona 'we've all done it' Phillips for example).

    Sick bastards.

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  66. Doesnt this nutter need a decent hairdresser? What a tosspot - how come he is employed!

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  67. Fernis 63- Brian Kennedy said he was taking the car for independent forensic tests. Nothing more was heard, so either they didn't happen or the results were not favourable to the Mccanns.

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  68. 51 Oh dear! No evidence? Lots of evidence of abdcution though, right?!

    Personnally I think Kate McCann is a witch - the treatment of her child is like that of Cinderella or Snow White...a star chart to keep her in bed, not to stop the poor child waking and wanting her parents in the night, but to stop her bothering the disgusting pair...they belong in a Dickens novel!

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  69. 51 - Is the witchhunt you refer to the one being pursued against Mr Amaral or the one that was set up against Robert Murat? Have you read the evidence in the PJ files? If you have, you can enter into the debate with some credibility; if not you need to do some research first.

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  70. As Madeleine is a Ward of Court, the Gaspars' statements should have been sent to the court, as should any "evidence" held by Edgar on the hellish lair. The court should be satisfied that enhanced CRB checks have been carried out on the parents; ensuring that it would be safe to return M home. The McCanns should also be seeking the permission of the court for some of their actions.
    If pressure to re-open the case should be directed anywhere, it should be at Judge Hogg.
    The fund should be overseen by an independent trust and legal costs should be made clear in the accounts. If people want to pay the McCanns costs, it is their decision, but contributors should be aware how their money is being spent.

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  71. Hi Anon, 51, I'm not in the UK so no idea, but don't worry about a witch hunt against Dr Amaral as he gains more and more support no matter what the British press print.

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  72. Talking of cars at 63, didn't Patricia Cameron say in her statement that she borrowed a car from friends when she arrived in PDL on May 5th, yet the T9 deny having the use of a car in the early days. They also claimed to have no friends in Portugal, yet Fiona Payne managed to get mobile phones via her relatives, the Aldridges.
    Hadn't they taken phone chargers? Why did they need another supply of mobiles?

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  73. Post 51- If you are unfamiliar with the facts of this case, I recommend starting with The Cracked Mirror on this site. It outlines how the McCanns' story took shape; how the media were manipulated and how various political figures were drawn in.

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  74. Well said post 70, I so hope snr Amaral wins his case, and I feel so horrified by the rooftop gardens dinner, money to be shared with 2 other charities???well well GM was afraid no one would come if it were only for money for maddie,not because they do not wish to help Maddie, but the tide is turning and the McGrunts are becoming more transparent,people are beginning not to trust them, and why should they have all that money to waste when the population of Haiti is homeless and dying. Loved the black tights Kate with open sandals, very........um......very McGrunt

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  75. I watched a movie on the amber alert system and when it was formed due to the mother of missing Amber, I also saw another film,its title was change into Spanish, I do not remember exactly but it was the exact story almost of maddie, balloons and all and all publicity. And in the end parents were charged, I think it was based on a true story, both were films 10 years or more old, maybe someone had seen these films as well. the MC and their interest in missing children is a cover up to win them more votes

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  76. A friend who knows a little about this case grimaced and said "How tacky" when I told her about The Bash.

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  77. I.ve just read on Michael Mansfield qc site an item about the McCanns dated 14th oct(didn't say year)it said this has never been revealed before today it says a bloody footprint was found in the Mccanns apartment matching a print found in the McCanns rental car,according to a report by The Mail on sunday,it says the blood was sent to a forensic lab in Birmingham and it came back a moderate match with Madeleine.If the Mail knows this then why aren't they putting this in their papers,how can they stand by and not say anything,even if it is not Madeleines print it should still be out in the public.

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  78. @69

    the star rewarding system is also used for children prone to bedwetting, in fact this is the context in which I have always heard about it, not just for sleeping through the night.

    http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Bedwetting-Reward-Systems.htm

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  79. No 78 Is this not the footprint that was given the explanation that it came from the shoe of one of the PJ?

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  80. No 78 The footprint was from a trainer, size 5/6, with a particular pattern on the bottom , found at the apartment. Unless the PJ officer had small feet and wore trainers, this is unlikely.

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  81. "Exclusive: Who was the woman outside Maddie's flat?
    James Murray Express on-line- May 2009.
    "A woman was seen acting suspiciously outside Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment...... The slim, Portuguese- looking woman in a plum- coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Clib complex.... the woman, who has asked not to be named"- then goes on to describe what she saw as she drove past.... "I turned right and could see quite clearly she was looking at apartment 5A... She stepped around to the other side of the street lamp, as though she didn't want me to look at her.. As I approached another junction, a small brown car, with just one English-looking man in it swung round and nearly hit mine...."
    If you read Jeremy Wilkins statement, this is clearly Jane Tanner.

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  82. No 82 well spotted! You are right although Jeremy does say that she was wearing a purple dress. Wouldn't read too much into that as my OH calls skirts and tops, dresses too. Been married to him for nearly 25 years and it still bugs the hell out of me.

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  83. No it isn't. Read what Tanner was wearing. Cut off trousers and her old man's fleece.
    How the hell could Jez Wilkin's give any useful information? He didn't see her, remember?

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  84. 84- You obviously haven't read his statements properly. He saw her earlier that evening, when he was taking his child out for a walk in the pushchair. He refers to her purple top and identifies her as Jane Tanner. She may well have changed into different clothing to go out later.

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  85. I humbly suggest that if Tanner was acting in some kind of removal capacity she would not be stood outside looking at the apartment, but would be inside, bundling up the body. Really, this is straw-grasping on an epic scale.

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  86. trismegistos 53: neither was lady macbeth able to live with the psychological consequences... literature of all ages is full of insight into weird human behaviour - but sometimes i think, those mccann characters must be stranger than fiction.

    what bothers me most is the ruthless way they are dragging the twins into their "find madeleine" folie à deux, their own private psychosis, and exposing them to the public, just like they exposed and exploited madeleine.

    as for "devout" catholics - catholicism as i know it is all about sin and salvation, so maybe that appealed to them. devout they are no way. i remember my dad, he used to take me to church at least twice a week, as early as 2 years old, and still kept forcing me to go when i was 20. even when on holiday, we had to attend mass at the local church, no matter what the language was, french, italian, spanish - because, so he stated, sacrament & liturgy are the same all over the world...

    i quit catholicism a while ago, but i resent the mccanns for posing with the pope. that was bad beyond taste. but then again, has there been anything good so far?

    eric

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  87. Anon 86 - Its quite feasible she was a `look out`.

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  88. post 65

    I lean towards the 'dumped far out at sea' theory too.

    They'd have needed a boat though.

    I recall that Fiona Payne's brother-in-law ( Simon Aldridge ) has a brother who was contacted shortly after the child went missing, because he had 'friends' living in the area ( they were the ones who supplied the extra' mobile phones to the McCanns )

    Who ARE these 'friends' of the Payne family, living near PDL ? ... and do they have a boat by any chance ?

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  89. Anon 89

    With their endless list of important contacts, it's feasible they knew someone with a boat.

    It was the way Gerry said "find the body and prove it" that makes me think she was taken out to sea. If Maddie had been buried around Praia de Luz there was always a possibility she would be found.

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  90. Two of the guys went "sailing" on one of the afternoons. One of the seems to have had a lame excuse for going overboard too. I think it was Mat & Russel.

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  91. Fiona Payne told Leics Police at her rog that Simon Payne, brother of David supplied the Pt mobiles as he is in the business. She did not seem to be able to explain how it was being used on the evening of 4 May (given he was in UK how did he manage that) or why her mobile that she says she left at home broken was also being used in PDL. I think the officer slips up and almost says well maybe it was your sim. In short on reading it, that is what the officer seems to think. David took Fiona's sim from her mobile to use in PDL, now why would he do that.

    Full post on this:
    http://justiceformaddie.blogspot.com/2010/01/simon-payne-broken-mobiles-swapped.html

    If someone had a little accident with Maddie that afternoon (DC Marshall is very suspicious of where David Payne was that afternoon and what he was wearing/emails Oct 07 between him and Ricardo Paiva, also referring David had changed his mind last saw Maddie 5.30 at the apt cannot explain what he was doing there/not at 7 as originally stated, in short a lie)

    Sorry I digress, if someone had a little accident with Maddie during the afternoon or early evening, the taken out by boat scenario is a very good one I think. Mat and Russell were using a catamaran I think it was that afternoon. Mat and Russell went walk about that evening, Russell and Gerry clearly gone for considerable time. In the death scenario I have always tried to think what was Russell's role? Helping Gerry take the boat out? The police are obviously interested in them boating that afternoon. I have always thought Maddie had to be taken away by boat because otherwise she would have been jus too easy to find. Say for example, Gerry stood fro the rocks and threw her weighted body into the sea, they would be able to pinpoint roughly where the body would be and I am quite sure they did some underwater searching around those possible points. But, if they took the boat well out and then threw the body..

    I still think that what the prosecutor suggests is a bit more likely but death/abuse David Payne etc Kate failing to protect Maddie still fits in with this. Gerry well you know what I think! He is a great golfing friend of his two friends who wanted to cook the timelines with him, Payne and OB. These three!

    If you read Kate's diary it certainly sounds like she killed Madeleine or she feels responsible, she also writes some bizarre stuff about how she hates paedophiles and they make her skin creep, but put a bit stronger than that, quite demented.

    They have taken her? Russell David Gerry?

    But - it still seems planned to me and a living child is worth more than a dead one (if you really are that sick and into making cash and I think they are) How could Kate admit this? She knows what they are and what they were doing? That would get her YEARS!

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  92. Just another thought, why would David Payne's brother be called Simon Aldridge, surely they would have the same surname unless one of them changed their name due to having something to hide. I cannot remember where the name Simon Aldridge comes from, can someone give me a link? Is there a stmt on the PJ file?

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  93. Viv -There is also a mention of Nicky Aldridge. I will try to give you refs. but I'm off to work soon, so will post later.

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  94. "A woman was seen acting suspiciously outside Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment...... The slim, Portuguese- looking woman in a plum- coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Clib complex

    Jane Tanner is not slim. She is normal size, but she is not slim. IMO.

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  95. @viv.

    With respect, you are getting completely carried away here. It makes me very uncomfortable when people start speculating on those who are nothing to do with the case. It makes them look obsessive and pretty creepy.

    Fiona Payne does not refer to the man named as her husband's brother, but as her brother in law, so he could be her sisters husband, hence the different name. Even if he isn't to suggest that ''they would have the same surname unless one of them changed it due to having something to hide''is really unfair. Siblings can use different surnames for a whole host of reasons, none of which are frankly your business.

    Sorry, but I just don't think that wild speculation like this puts anyone in a good light

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  96. Viv- Simon Aldridge is referred to in the Payne's Rog. statements. Fiona says he is her brother-in-law, so he could be married to her sister, if she has one? It was friends of the Aldridges who supplied the phones.

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  97. Anon 88- My thought too, when I posted the info about James Murray's article. She also made a phone call on her mobile at 8.30.

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  98. maybe mr. aldridge adopted his wife's surname? shouldn't be too unusual in the 21st century? just a thought.

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  99. Thanks for your help guys and will have a look at the Aldridges. I find it pretty creepy that on a discussion board people cannot discuss what they are thinking and ask for the assistance of others without a personal attack. I have read an awful lot on this case "Bridget" but even so never professed to have such expertise as you, where you can state quite categorically who is "nothing to do with the case". Are you CID or PJ and in either event do you think you should be on here!!

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  100. Just to endorse Bridget's comments on 'wild speculation' (post 96). The Diane Webster rogatory interview tells us who Simon Aldridge is, his occupation and his place of work. (A look at the website of that place of work would suggest that his name is in fact Simon Oldridge.) http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post449.html#p449

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  101. Well I have updated my blog accordingly :-)) Now I am just wondering who Alan Middleton is and why Louise PhD is in New Zealand but her husband Simon ALDRIDGE has a business in Doncaster, it just seems like one heck of a commute, but I am sure that Bridget can tell me@-)))

    Oh silly me, I am being thick again, is there a Doncaster in New Zealand, waiting for a suitable "endorsement"=))

    That is the trouble sometimes it just kind of makes one even more curious, lol!

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  102. I suppose the GASPAR statement detailing how Gerry and Payne were enjoying a sexual fantasy dinner time chat concerning Madeleine was just wild speculation on the part of Dr Gaspar, a former friend of theirs?

    I am not going to leave this subject alone!

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  103. Aldrige/Oldridge?
    Simon Aldridge mentioned in DW rog. interview. The Sandtoft roof tiles firm is Doncaster , England. MD of Sandcroft is Nick Oldridge. Could he be the Nicky Aldridge referred to?

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  104. Misrouted phone call from Swansea to KM. Rachael Mampilly Oldfield and family originally from Swansea.

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  105. Simon and Nick Oldridge;brothers. Simon MD and Nick Marketing MD Sandtoft Roof Tiles. GDP 42 million in 2007. Taken over by Weinberger AG Austria in 2008.

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