17 July 2010

Silly Season Humour: The Tapas 9 Timeline Redux


For those who have not yet grasped the complexity of the Tapas 9 Timeline and the amount of road covered in the ceaseless effort to keep their children safe Impartial has produced a condensed reconstruction of May 3, 2007: The Tapas 9 Timeline Redux



The Tapas 9 or simply Tapas, is the alias given by the media to the G9 - the official name given by the Portuguese and English authorities joint investigation codenamed Operation Task to a group consisted of nine British adults who dined in the Tapas Bar restaurant, at the Ocean Club Tourist Resort in Praia da Luz (Portugal) during their joint holidays from April 28, 2007 whilst leaving their children alone in the rented apartments. According to their statements the children were allegedly supervised in turns with uncertain time intervals [from 15 minutes to 20 or 30 minutes], until the evening of May 3, 2007 - when Madeleine McCann, aged 3, mysteriously "disappeared", allegedly from apartment 5A's bedroom, the one she shared with her 2-year-old siblings Sean and Amelie (twins). The tourist resort provided a free baby sitting service - it was never requested by the group.

The Tapas sworn official statements of May 4 and May 10 2007, April 2008, filled with incongruencies of various kinds, which often contradict their public media statements, can be found in this blog by following the index links, at the Maddie Case Files Forum, at the McCann Files or at Pamalam's aka Gerry McCann's Blog.

The Tapas 9


133 comments:

  1. pmsl.and they wonder why no one with a brain believes them

    ReplyDelete
  2. "The tourist resort provided a free baby sitting service as well as a «door-to door» listening service...."

    Wrong, wrong, wrong! The listening service WASN'T on offer at the PdL resort!

    ShuBob

    ReplyDelete
  3. I stand Corrected, thank you Shubob

    "John Hill, the manager at Ocean Club, said that reports that the flat had been broken ... He said that Mark Warner offered a baby-sitting service. ... the company did not supply a “room listening” service, where nannies ..." http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article1750081.ece http://www.markwarner.co.uk/why-choose-us/sun/childrens-clubs

    ReplyDelete
  4. My humble opinion:

    "Door-to-door listening services" should be forbidden by law!!! It just is not a safe way to monitor children! It just is not possible to be sure a child is o.k. by "listening" at the door only! NO WAY!Not without visual/physical contact. Just because all is quiet inside an apartment, no children crying, etc., it is not proof that all is well with the children, by no means! The children can be silent because they're alredy unconscious or worse, DEAD!
    Is it only me who feels this way?...(because I do not remember reading about other people who also mistrust this "checking" method)

    ReplyDelete
  5. Yes, NO "listening service" at the O. Club, but they had baby-sitting services, either privately, in the apartments at the parents request, or in a colective facility, where the parents could leave the children while they were away.
    The McCanns and Cº chose none of those, alledgedly because they did not want to leave the children in the care of "strangers"(!), if you can believe it! The "strangers" were the exact same nannies that took care of the children all day, every single day of the "family holiday"!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Poster 4 It is not only you who feels this way, I feel this way too.
    I would say let the kids home with their grandparents to give them a real vacation, if you do not feel like cooking and it is not possible to take them along to a restaurant.
    On the other hand without neglect no abduction and maybe neglect was necessarily to fake an abduction.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anon 4 yes I agree with you, it serves of no use whatsoever, only if a child is crying, it may help by contacting the parents...butwe know that many things can happen to young children, suffocation, vomiting and suffocating, just sleeping and never waking, and many other things. There always needs to be someone actually there to care for and look after them even if they never wake.the McCanns and their friends are supposedly intelligent people, but their actions prove otherwise. Who in their right mind leaves 3 children under 4yrs alone!! These so called doctors are not worthy of practice, they are neglectful selfish people, that only want their own fun. The Crech was good enough all day every day, but not good enough for the night. Responsible people get their priorities right, safety of children first, they could have all got together on one terrace with all the children sleeping in the one apartment, that way they could get pissed and care for the little ones,for thats what they were...small defenceless children...and I say Shame on you all.

    ReplyDelete
  8. And to continue on, what right do they have as parents to market their childs defective eye against all police advice, putting Maddie at risk...if she really as they say had been abducted. Who in their right mind would ignore police advice, after all arent they the experts?? And not only this they wish to ruin the life of the head policeman that investigated the case..If as you say McC that you are innocent, your actions betray you...,your greed for wealth and fame will get the better of you..what goes around comes around...I bet you do not sleep well, but then you probably do as you both are heartless. God bless that small child wherever she may be. Im sorry if my words may cause offence but then the truth hurts...

    ReplyDelete
  9. Without the help of Joanna and her team, the McCann files and many others, the cover up would have been done and dusted. But know these hardworking people search for the truth, for all. especially in the UK where all news is whitewashed, and the government continues with its non investigation. The McC get more money to live in rothley towers with their dillusions of grandeur, and Maddie gets swept further and further under the carpet. Time for someone to pull the rug from under these two, before they ruin any other peoples lives. There are many in higher positions that are just waiting for you to fall....

    ReplyDelete
  10. Jack and Jill went up the hill..............and Jill came tumbling after

    ReplyDelete
  11. The Dutch tv is saying that the girl Amber, who was abducted 6 years ago, is found back, alive and well, in the United States.
    I suppose that she must be the the girl who inspired Amber Alert.
    No reaction from the McCanns and why not?
    Amber was abducted by two ants, when she was one year old.
    Who knows her parents knew it.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  12. If the Children were checked like the Tapas gang want us to believe, the street around the 5A will be so busy that a clever and attentive abductor will give-up his intention immediately. They lie with every tooth they have on their mouths.
    Why there was no physical evidences ofMadeleine in the bed? Why the twins were in the cots in a cold night without blankets and bed-shits? Why the abductor took the girl and left behind her Cuddle cat (an important friend to calm her)? Why the Cuddle Cat was not full of forensic evidences of the girl and was not used to find Madeleine ADN?

    It looks more that the all kids were stored togheter in one flat, perhaps sedated and under the listen w.talkie of the Paynes. Like that, the other flats were free and available for, God knows what. What made the all Tapa come to PDL in the cheapest time of the year, was not the sun, was not the family holidays, was not their curiosity to visit or know the Algarve and Portugal. Should be something else... a reason made them travel together, spend the time in the resort without caring their kids and choose a quite time in a quite place to be unnoticed. THIS GANG IS FAR FROM INNOCENT.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Absolutely agree with Anon. #4 - Listening service is no guarantee all is well within.

    ReplyDelete
  14. anonymous 11

    Amber Hagerman was the 9 year-old whose tragic and horrible end in January 1996 inspired - due to the severe consternation and sadness of the local community, local radio DJ, parents and police officers on the case - to create what later would become the basis for the US Child Alert System. It was baptised regionally as Amber Alert in Amber's memory, and was adopted by most of the US states, becoming a law to protect children in October 1996.

    Amber Hagerman, during a visit to her grandparents who lived in Arlington, Texas, went with her 5 year old brother biking, a few minutes later her brother went back home without his big sister. A neighbour who witnessed the abduction called the police. She was found dead 4 days later.

    «On January 13, 1996 a man in a black pickup truck abducted Amber, who was riding her bicycle in Arlington, TX. A witness, Jimmie Kevil, was able to provide police with a cursory description of both the abductor and his vehicle. According to Jimmie, the man in the pickup stopped in the parking lot of the abandoned grocery store where Amber was playing, sprinted to her, and dragged her into his truck. As Jimmie was relating his observations to the police, Amber's grandfather, Jimmy Whitson, drove up, looking for the child. Amber was the second child in her family to have been kidnapped. Her father's two-day-old-granddaughter was abducted in 1991 and recovered safely 10 hours later.

    Arlington police began searching for Amber immediately. Volunteers searched for Amber Hagerman for several days, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation investigated. Four days after her abduction, a man walking his dog found Amber's corpse in a creek bed. An autopsy revealed that her throat had been cut. She had been alive two whole days before being killed. Although a $75,000 reward was offered for information leading to Amber's killer, he was never found. The task force investigating Amber's murder was dissolved in June 1997.» in Wikipedia on Amber Hagerman

    «On hearing the news, Amber's father, Richard, called Marc Klaas, whose daughter, Polly, had been abducted and murdered in 1993.

    Richard Hagerman and Amber's mother Donna Whitson called the news media and the FBI. The Whitsons and their neighbors began searching for Amber. Four days after the abduction, a man walking his dog found Amber's body in a storm drainage ditch. Her killer was never found. Her parents soon established People Against Sex Offenders (P.A.S.O.). They collected signatures hoping to force the Texas Legislature into passing more stringent laws to protect children.

    God's Place International Church soon donated office space for the organization, and as the search for Amber's killer continued, P.A.S.O. received almost-daily coverage in local media. Companies donated various office supplies, including computer and Internet service. Local Congressman Martin Frost, with the help of Marc Klaas, drafted the Amber Hagerman Child Protection Act. President Bill Clinton signed it into law in October 1996.» in Wikipedia on the creation of Amber Alert or Child Abduction Emergency

    continues bellow

    ReplyDelete
  15. From Houston Chronicle Newspaper archives (01/15/2006):

    ARLINGTON - A branch on a tree in Jim and Glenda Whitson's front yard juts off to the south, lower than the other limbs and in the opposite direction, conspicuous in how it hangs alone.

    The branch has needed trimming for years, but the couple's granddaughter Amber Hagerman liked to climb the tree and sit on that branch. So it stays.

    In nearby Hurst, her mother keeps 27 Barbie dolls in a box near a scrapbook with Amber's school certificates, principal's awards and report cards. Her clothes are folded in drawers, and her pink bicycle is in storage.

    "We just can't bring ourselves to throw it away," Glenda Whitson said.

    Friday was the 10th anniversary of Amber's abduction, and her death still reverberates.

    It binds her family, the investigators who still hunt her killer, the grateful parents of children returned to them by a public alert system named for the Arlington girl and the faceless man in a black truck who set all this in motion.

    About 3 p.m. Jan. 13, 1996, Amber rode off on her bike from her grandparents' Arlington home. Eight minutes later, a man yanked the 9-year-old from the bike and into a black pickup.

    Her body was found four days later on the bank of a creek in north Arlington. Her throat had been slashed. She wore only a sock on her right foot.

    Amber's mother, Donna Whitson, now Donna Norris, gives speeches across the country on child safety and the Amber Alert system when she can afford to take time off from her job cleaning houses.

    Her husband of five years, Randy, writes her speeches. He works on oil rigs by trade, but she said his words have moved many to tears.

    "He never met Amber, but it's still hard for him," Donna Norris said. "He cries, and he has to stop. But he likes to help me, and her."

    Day took a tragic turn

    It's not the life Norris envisioned when she and her two children, Amber and Ricky, spent a warm Saturday afternoon in January at a park before eating at Burger King. Then they went to homes of relatives and friends, selling Girl Scout cookies, finally stopping at the home of Amber's grandparents.

    Norris and the children lived in an east Arlington apartment complex, so they kept their bicycles at her parents' home or in their garage.

    The working-class neighborhood of single-story houses is where Norris grew up.

    "The whole neighborhood was close-knit," Norris said. "It always was safe. It was for me."

    That day, Amber and Ricky, then 5, rode several blocks to the parking lot of an abandoned Winn-Dixie grocery store. Neighborhood children liked to ride their bikes up and down the loading ramp on the east side of the store.

    A few minutes later, Ricky returned alone.

    The family worried that Amber had been gone too long, so Jim Whitson went looking for her. He found only her bike lying on its side.

    A neighbor told Whitson that he had heard a girl scream and saw her being pulled into a black truck.

    Police were called. Later, national and local news media representatives arrived. Satellite trucks jammed the tiny side street in front of the Whitsons' home.

    Norris' memories of the next four days are at once vivid and hazy.

    "Nobody slept. Nobody ate," she said. "Every time the phone rang, we jumped."

    About 11 p.m. Wednesday, a man walking his dog found Amber's body in a creek bed.

    Norris remembers the wails of mourning neighbors as the news spread. She remembers police officers crying as they stretched yellow tape around the front yard.

    "Big, grown men don't usually cry like that," she said.

    Norris described those four days as hell, with the nightmare diminishing only slightly since.

    Amber's birthday - Nov. 25 - the holidays and then the anniversary of her kidnapping, Jan. 13, are an emotional gantlet.

    "They say time heals all wounds ... " Norris said as she sobbed into a tissue.

    continues bellow

    ReplyDelete
  16. Her mother completed her sentence. "But little things set you off," Glenda Whitson said.

    There's the theme song to "I Love Lucy", Amber's favorite show. There's the Kenny Chesney song "Who You'd Be Today", and a million other things and places that carry Amber's memory.

    On this 10th anniversary, Norris spent Friday, National Amber Alert Day, in Washington, D.C., with her father at an event during which the new Amber Alert postage stamp was unveiled. Through the alert system named for the Berry Elementary School third-grader, broadcasters nationwide have volunteered to interrupt programming to transmit descriptions and suspect information after child abductions.

    "Sometimes I want to curl up and die. I can't put into words how hard it is," Donna Norris said. "But I'm not giving up. Amber was a fighter, so I'll be a fighter. We don't want any more dead babies."

    The `Bad Man'

    Donna Norris had difficulty answering Ricky's questions.

    "I would tell him the `Bad Man' took her and did this to her," Norris said. "The name just kind of stuck."

    Norris still has fliers ready, printed and stacked neatly. She hands them out occasionally. They list a $75,000 reward for information leading to a conviction.

    There is no sketch of the suspect. No name.

    All that is known is that he looked white or Hispanic, and he drove a black late-model pickup, possibly a Ford, on that day in 1996. That was according to one witness who saw the kidnapping from a distance while standing in his back yard.

    The rest of the description on the flier came from psychological profiles.

    Characteristics: Approximately 25 years old or older, carries a knife, erupts violently, probably lives alone, possibly recently lost his job or had a family dispute.

    The creek where Amber was found was swollen with recent rain, making forensic evidence difficult to collect.

    Arlington police Sgt. Mark Simpson, who headed his department's Amber Task Force, now supervises the crimes-against-persons unit. This crime is the one that haunts him the most.

    "Some things are just beyond the pale," he said.

    Beyond the gruesomeness, Simpson said, he is frustrated that a suspect hasn't been nabbed in such a haphazard crime.

    Amber was taken in broad daylight, along a main thoroughfare. The ramp at the grocery store was in plain view of traffic on Abram Street, a highly trafficked laundry and the yards of at least five neighbors.

    Amber's wounds suggested that the killer was not skilled or experienced and was perhaps new to this type of crime.

    But he got away, despite a task force of almost 50 officers and four sergeants working alongside FBI agents and profilers. The city spent more than $1 million to find him. Investigators followed more than 6,000 tips and leads, and took more than a dozen false confessions.

    "The community was just absolutely outraged," Simpson said. "We had every indication that this guy was not going to stop. And the longer this guy was out there, the more likely it was that someone else was in danger."

    "I have every reason to believe he is still out there," Simpson continued. "Until I've got him in custody, I'll assume he's a danger to society."

    continues bellow

    ReplyDelete
  17. Case haunts detective

    Detective Jim Ford was the lead investigator on the case. Of the 49 Arlington police officers who worked the task force, Ford is the one left working the killing as part of the cold-case unit.

    Ford has investigated homicides for 23 years and estimates he has worked on more than 300. He said Amber's case, "without a doubt," is the one that keeps him up nights.

    There is a picture of Amber in his cubicle. He still visits the site of the kidnapping and Amber's grave. He said he receives about one tip per month, which is investigated and added to the database of Amber information.

    "There is nothing worse than a child being brutally murdered," Ford said. "Everybody went all out trying to help. There were lots of volunteers, and various businesses put up reward money. We all really wanted to solve this one."

    Killers such as this typically don't stop, Simpson said. Officers have kept up with similar crimes across the nation but haven't found any connections that held up on inspection, he said.

    There were some promising leads. One of the strongest led to a former Arlington resident who was convicted of a string of sexual assaults of children and two killings in Florida. But he had an alibi for the day Amber was abducted, police said.

    Unusual obstacles

    The high profile of the case drew distractions, in addition to the false confessions, which criminologists say is normal. Insistent tipsters kept reporting the same suspects. A lawyer who swore he knew who killed Amber, but whose tip did not check out, was killed in a shootout with Bedford police in 2000.

    "This case was an anomaly," Ford said. "It brought up all kinds of problems that we never had before."

    Simpson was working in internal affairs when the kidnapping occurred. He was placed in charge of the task force because he had supervised a child sex-crimes unit before.

    Amber's case was larger in scope than anything the department had dealt with. Now Simpson gives seminars to officers from across the country on major-case management.

    As the task force wound down in 1996 and it became apparent that there was little to go on, personnel were reassigned. Officers left feeling that they had failed, Simpson said.

    "There were grown men who walked out with tears in their eyes because they didn't want to quit," Simpson said. "I still get calls from some of them, when they see something in the paper that might be connected. It's just not something you can let go of."

    Simpson said the case files are well-organized for whomever follows him, so the investigation will go on even when he can't.

    Amber's relatives don't think the original investigators will ever let it go.

    "Mark Simpson told me he'll be looking for that man the rest of his life," Glenda Whitson said. "And I believe him."

    continues bellow

    ReplyDelete
  18. A future lost

    Amber was a good student. She was nurturing and independent. She helped teach her brother how to read.

    The family's descriptions of the child with the freckled face - "a little on the pudgy side," says her mother - sound at once very special and disarmingly typical.

    "She was just a giggly little 9-year-old girl," Norris said.

    The child who refused to come down from her tree branch when she didn't want to leave Grandma and Grandpa's house would have graduated from high school last summer.

    She looked forward to graduating from the Brownies in Girl Scouts and loved to rake leaves into piles and jump in them. Her family thinks she would have been in college somewhere.

    "She was A-B honor roll," said her grandfather Jim Whitson. "She always liked school, got good grades."

    Her mother said, "If she got a B, it broke her heart."

    Amber's favorite subject was writing.

    Gathered in Norris' home in Hurst last week, the Whitsons, Donna Norris and Amber's aunt Tammie Vasilio laughed and sobbed simultaneously as they imagined Amber learning to drive, discovering boys and getting into trouble.

    Norris flipped through the scrapbook full of Amber's papers, awards and report cards, stopping at stories she wrote titled "Shop Bugs" and "The Big Brown Teddy Bear".

    There was a homemade Mother's Day card with a drawing on the back of a very small globe with people circling it, holding hands.

    Above the drawing, Amber wrote, "This is the world I want to be in."

    in Houston Chronicle

    Read as well Notorious Murders on TruTv

    ReplyDelete
  19. Conclusion, anonymous 11

    The girl you mention, appearing in the news now, is a different Amber, named Amber Nicklas, she was a 13-month-old in 2003 when she was kidnapped by close family members.

    «Some commentators have said Amber's case offers grounds for optimism in the cases of other long-term missing children such as Madeleine McCann. If nothing else, it suggests there are people – perhaps otherwise respectable people – whose desire for a child to raise as their own is such that they are not inclined to ask too many questions about where he or she has come from. But, for all its illegality, Amber's Arizona home seems to have been a better, more loving place than the one she was born in.»

    in Independent

    ReplyDelete
  20. Are the mccans the XXI century obsession?

    ReplyDelete
  21. How sad that in the UK the police decide it's better NOT to inform the public when a filthy paedophile may be living in the same street as them but better if they are able to monitor them, is that what they are doing with Payne? monitoring the filthy swine..

    Never have i seen such a bunch of wrongen's

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anon 20. No the McCanns are not the XXI century obsession, it is stopping the deception of the public if you can call that an obsession.

    ReplyDelete
  23. The Tapas 9 plus the rest of the entourage on the Ocean Club guestlist! That's where to look. Gerry played tennis with Julian (Dr Julian Totman), friend of Jeni and Paul Weinberger, and Curtis(Brain). Steve Carpenter sees Curtis and girlfiend, also a doctor, on the night of M's disappearance..so it goes on.No 22-totally agree

    ReplyDelete
  24. Is there any record, e.g. credit cards, etc., that the McCanns purchased some sort of cooling device around the time Madeleine disappeared.

    It would not necessarily have to be a fridge or a freezer.

    I do hope this case is reopened. Dr Amaral has said there is evidence that the body was kept frozen at some time. If so, there has to be something, somewhere, that can prove this. If this is traced back to the McCanns then how can they not bring charges.

    ReplyDelete
  25. @Anon 22

    I am afraid its unfortunately far too late for that,I mean, stopping the deception of the public....far too late,everywhere,unless of course,radical actions are taken but people are too afraid to move it and prefer to be deluded and live in a perfect delusion...

    ReplyDelete
  26. another Amber:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/missing-girl-found-after-seven-years-but-did-she-want-to-be-2029222.html

    isar

    ReplyDelete
  27. WoC

    isar

    may I claim my 5 squid for the first post that's shorter than it's writer's nom de plume ? 8 - )

    ReplyDelete
  28. another 5 squid..3 posts in a row if the 'powers' allow them

    a)WoCs in England and Wales have never been public issues-they have always been 'in camera'- as a minor is involved not so Madeleine's...that one's been highly public

    b) de Sousa stated in the second press conference that Gerry was Madeleine's biological father---why on earth would that make a difference in the search for the girl unless it actually could have made a difference

    c)one of the 40-odd questions put to K&G was about whether plans had been afoot to have the wee bairn adopted

    d)Do read Justice's Hoggs statement..do read it unencumbered by Bennettt's stupid blatherings or blacksmith's pseudo journalism-

    Hogg is appealing to someone...known or at least suspected of by the parents

    lastly..other observers views that WoC was imposed as to safeguard for the child if/when she was found..do not hold water..as by now we all know how quickly a D-notice can be imposed on the British media

    dismiss all the above as a crock of doo doo if you must..

    IMHO

    isar

    ReplyDelete
  29. @Anon 25 It is never too late to do the right thing, isn't it? :-)

    You may be right, but I suppose you don't prefer to be deluded, so I assume there are many people like you and me who don't want to be deluded. Besides de XXI century has just begun.

    ReplyDelete
  30. 24, nobody of Tapas 9 would have bought a cooling.The person who helped to hide the corpse in Portugal is the one who had or bought the cooling.
    And if Gerry payed it, he gave cash to that person.
    No traces at all.
    That person must be British and he would have called the attention to himself.

    ReplyDelete
  31. "Hogg is appealing to someone...known or at least suspected of by the parents"
    Never heard of High Court judge appealing to an abductor (perpetrator of a crime), and the alleged abductor to be suspected by the two real suspects of the police investigation. I always thought that judges do not accept beliefs without sure proof.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Isar

    How Bennett appears to be a thorn in your flesh, just as he is to the McCanns.

    So what does that say about you Isar.

    You, Isar, who never can miss an opportunity to try and dismiss the dogs, just like Gerry McCann.

    Yes, what does that say about you Isar.

    No doubt the McCanns would give you their full approval.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I found this very interesting link to a Express newspaper front page artical that was "pulled and not published" stating that the McCanns lied
    go there and read

    http://gasparstatements.blogspot.com/2010/03/article-that-team-mccann-didnt-want-you.html

    ReplyDelete
  34. 32 and isar please calm down, debate is fine, personal attacks amongst fellow commentators is not.

    ReplyDelete
  35. ISAR, D-Notices are used for matters of national security, they are not used for cases like this. The rules under which they may be uased are easy to find. And WoC status has been granted before, and is often used in cases where international jusrisdiction is involved. So what are you saying? That someone in the family took her?
    I don't think that holds water any more than any of the other mad theories.

    Good to see you are supporting the Amber Alert at last Joana, I could never understand why the 'antis' were so against such a valuable tool.

    ReplyDelete
  36. @33 - that article WAS published, that's why the Express had to pay out so much damages! Doh!
    Why don't people understand this? Rubbish articles by rubbish journalists, telling lies about innocent people, cost their publishers small fortunes and got retracted.
    It isn't proof they were true, it's proof of the stupidity and mendacity of the press.

    ReplyDelete
  37. 35 Where do you got the idea that I was against Amber Alert or the European Child Alert System? I am not, au contraire. What I am is against a couple of negligent parents who do not have the moral grounds to represent the parents of missing and abducted children to latch on the work started in 2005 by several EU MEPs, commissioner and former vice-president Franco Frattini, EU Justice Commissioner Jacques Barrot, including Her Majesty the Queen of the Belgians, Her Majesty the Queen of Sweden, Mrs Laura Bush, Mrs Lyudmila Putin and Mrs Margarida Sousa Uva-Barroso. Get it?

    Refs.

    British Media: How lies are spun, grown and perpetuated «Again the British newspapers keep perpetuating the myth - the McCanns did not have the idea nor did they campaign for the EU Wide Child Alert System, at best they opportunistically obfuscated the real protagonists of the EU Child Alert System: Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Franco Frattini, who was the among the first ones promoting this project, along with Ludmilla Putin, Margarida Sousa Uva Barroso - link to an article of 2005, Laura Bush, and a few European Union MEP's

    In 2006 from the European Commission on «Children - Violence against children»

    Within the framework of the protection of children, the Commission adopted a Communication on 4 July 2006 entitled “Toward an EU strategy on the Rights of the Child"

    European Commission takes new initiatives in favour of missing and sexually exploited children 17/01/2007

    116000" hotline phone number for missing children

    The creation of the national child abduction alert system follows the proposal that was presented during the Portuguese Presidency of the European Union at the Justice and Home Affairs Council informal meeting, which took place in Lisbon, where Portugal proposed the creation of a Europe-wide mechanism.

    ReplyDelete
  38. 36 go back to where you belong, thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anon 30

    Information as to what the McCanns paid for with those credit cards they lied about and said they never had, does not appear to have been forthcoming to the PJ, but the investigators did discover they paid for the hire car by credit card, no doubt because they could trace where the car was hired from.

    Why did the McCanns lie about the credit cards in the first place?

    What is it they bought with the credit cards they don't want known?

    A fridge, a freezer, a cooling device of some kind?

    Those credit cards that were lied about should have been checked out but the investigators were not given the cooperation from the McCanns or UK authorities to do this.

    If the case is reopened as an investigation into the death of Madeleine this may still not be too late to find out.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Joana, is there any way of finding out when the Libel trial is due to begin?
    Liz

    ReplyDelete
  41. Stephen John Carpenter -vexatious appellant- Stevenage Borough Council 20008. He didn't want a building development near his £449k tithe barn. Threatening letters sent...read all about it to see what sort of company T9 keep.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Is there a file on Kate & Gerry MaCann for child abuse.

    Gerald Patrick McCann: A search of the local section of the child abuse shows the registration number 19 309 in the CATS system. A consultation with the DC Soand from the department in question confirms that this is just a file reference, but as a complement to Operation Task system for the purpose of reference, if any investigation should be necessary by the department. - No work has been done on the basis of this file

    ReplyDelete
  43. 36, your are fast in your household.
    At 9.36 you are already at internet.
    Very worried, aren't you?

    ReplyDelete
  44. A Youtube video of Tony Bennett reading out the 48 questions addressed to Kate McCann was posted last week. It got many views and comments and has now been removed. Does anyone know anything about why it was taken down?

    ReplyDelete
  45. Great video from Impartial.

    @ 33. Thanks for that link to the Express article. I hadn't read it before. How odd to read something from the British Media which so pointedly questions the veracity of the T9. It was so long ago though and we have never seen the like of it since.

    Still, the same questions remains particularly with regards to Murat on which the article claimed:

    "Almost the entire police case against Murat was built on evidence from the couple’s holiday friends."

    Soon to be thrashed out in a Portuguese Court ?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Tony Bennett has worked harder and spent more time on trying to find out what happened to Madeleine than anyone else on any blog (present company, i.e. Joana and her co-team and a couple of other blogs) excepted. I fail to see why anyone remotely interested in finding out the truth would not be 100% supportive of him and his team. Maybe they are not so anti McCann as they make out.

    ReplyDelete
  47. If I may try to answer the question by poster 44 about the removal of Tony Bennet's video from youtube. Mr Bennet recieved a letter from Carter-Ruck and the video was immediately removed. I must say I'm baffled by Team McCann's action against Bennet. There are far more damning videos against the McCanns on Youtube than the 48 questions read by Mr Bennet. Anyway, a "replacement" video has been uploaded but with no on-screen speaker. In the new video the questions are merely scrolled. It is a disgrace that Carter-Ruck can bully Mr Bennet-but at least the fraudulent Find Madeleine Fund has been depleted just that little bit more by Carter-Ruck's latest action.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anon 44

    Maybe Carter Ruck spun them some yarn about it being libel, which it is not, because it is already in the public domain, it has even been printed in newspapers, and has been open for discussion since it was published.

    Just like the investigators pronouncing their belief in court that Madeleine is dead is not libel to discuss, or to alert other people to this belief. Neither is it libel to say that the investigators believe the abduction never happened, nor to repeat or discuss anything in the File which has been released. What is in the public domain from authoratative sources is not libel to repeat or discuss.

    Now that the Gaspar statements are released, that is not libel to mention, nor would it be to be printed in a newspaper, though one tried and then took it down. It would be interesting to know if they had been threatened by somebody, because they were perfectly within their rights to print the article. Their source can be verified and they didn't make it up.

    Or, CR may have spun then some yarn about Tony Bennett, as they appear to be afraid of him because he knows the law and he can't be frightened off like some people have been.

    That court case where Dr Amaral appealed the injunction has really put CR off their stride with the threats, but they will still try it on if they think somebody is not sure of what this case is about.

    However, what would be libel would be to state categorically that one or other of the people involved in this case had definitely killed or murdered Madeleine, because unless that can be proved in court it is pure speculation. Only the person or those directly involved know the truth, but based on the facts and circumstances in the public domain it is not libel to speculate what might have happened.

    Just as Dr Amaral's book is not libel, as it is based on the findings and circumstances surrounding a case, the findings of which point to the death of a child, and the speculation as to what might have happened to cause that death, and subsequent removal from the apartment, and the mention of the Smith sighting pertaining to this.

    It is a travesty that freedom of speech has been curtailed by the judiciary in Portugal when a book is published that is based on the true account of an investigation, the facts and circumstances of which are already in the public domain.

    ReplyDelete
  49. @46,well said, my sentiments exactly

    ReplyDelete
  50. Poster 44 and 47: Tony Bennetts video can be seen here:

    http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.com/

    ReplyDelete
  51. How can I find back the Express article that was mentioned this afternoon on the Twitter above?

    ReplyDelete
  52. On that article written by Express, I think that it says Maddie was not seen after 1.29pm. I would like to read it again.
    If this is true, Kate's signature on the creche's document could be a result of a favor of one of the nannies.
    That article was written very soon after the disappearence, it is possible that its contains are very true.
    On Amaral's video, we can see a video where Tapas 7 are present, at a bar or restaurant, but the McCanns are not.
    It was about 6.15, 6.30 pm.
    At least Kate and the children could have been present, if Gerry was playing tennis.

    ReplyDelete
  53. 35...

    feel ever so free to show us a case of WoC within England and Wales
    where the minor was named in the popular press .... whilst the minor was still in some perceived sense of danger

    also, how can.. a judge look after the well-being of a child..his/her schooling/medical care/general wellbeing..when the world and his uncle

    DOES NOT KNOW WHERE THE CHILD IS ???????? sorry to shout 8 - (

    I am

    waiting

    respectfully, for you to illucidate me/us

    isar

    ReplyDelete
  54. I found the Express article. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  55. Kate and Gerry are graduated in Medicine, in the UK.

    I wonder if they were graduated "cum fraude".

    I bet they were.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Why aren't the McCanns making a big noise around this other Amber, just found back in the US?
    I think McCann's silence in the last months is very strange.
    Did they decide to get rid of this issue and to re-start their lives?
    After three years of "abduction" they must be fed up about their stories.
    Or did the media decide not to talk about them anymore?
    Where are Clarence, Philomena,that man of CEOP?
    There must be something going on. Are the McCanns fearing something?
    Can we trust the new UK government?
    Long ago they even went to Brussels, Amber Alert.
    And now not even a message to the media: "Kate and I are incredibly happy with the beautifully discovering of the 6 years ago abductionly ...wonderfully etc..."

    ReplyDelete
  57. #40,

    And maybe the credit cards info would also show...DEBTS GALORE!
    I believe they were not at all well-off, more likely indebted to the roots of their hair. Then, the investigators would put 2+2 together and see plausible motive for a scam. a FRAUD, in the form of the fraudulent FUND, money collecting boxes, donations, etc.
    The "fund" is registered in the UK, any suspicion or proof of its irregularity would have to be investigated in Britain by the british authorities. Not an appealing prospect for some, so it seems...in his book, Mr. Amaral mentions the(too)obvious discomfort of the british police officers who joined the PJ in Portugal ( a sudden paleness), when the possibility of fraud was mentioned by the portuguese investigators.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Imo, the blue bag was used to transport the clothes that were used to clean up the floor, behind the sofa.
    And who knows some baby monitors belonging to Tapas 7.
    They all had to proof that they went checking on the children over and over again.

    ReplyDelete
  59. #51:

    Try here:
    http://gasparstatements.blogspot.com/2010/03/article-that-team-mccann-didnt-want-you.html.

    ReplyDelete
  60. # 51,

    In:

    http://gasparstatements.blogspot.com/


    LET AMARAL SPEAK

    http://gasparstatements.blogspot.com/2010/03/article-that-team-mccann-didnt-want-you.html

    ReplyDelete
  61. Poster 57 Agree.
    Gerry and the disasters.

    "It seems like a disaster that we've got this huge donated fund and now we're not allowed to use it for legal costs because we're under suspicion." (Gerry McCann)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-480825/Gerry-McCann-We-did-kill-daughter.html

    (By the way, strange text in http link: Gerry-McCann-We-did-kill-daughter)

    I also remember I read somewhere Gerry made a comparison between the disappearance of his daughter and the unexpected discovery having no money. Don't remember where I read this, does anyone else remember this and is it true?

    ReplyDelete
  62. The Maccann's are keeping a low profile, they have at some point in this got to decide when to stop, this stupidity cannot go on forever we have had no sighting for months now is one due who knows. I know one thing while Mr Amaral is around they still live in fear. They know in their hearts the web of lies around them gets more fragile as time goes on. Which one of us would change places with them, what woman would like to know her little child's body has been dumped like rubbish, and has for him would anyone of us trust him as our Doctor. The Maccann's no matter what public face they put on, no matter what mask they wear are living in hell. Lies wear you out lies catch up with you. If the Maccann's think they are home and dry
    all over forgotten whiter than white that is the biggest lie of all.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Kate: Well actually at 9:30 I stood up to go and check on Madeleine, because it was my turn. And at the same time Matt our friend stood up and we both started walking and he said well I'm going to check on G***e they were the next apartment to us he said "I'll check on Madeleine" and he hesitated a bit and then he said "no, I'll check" ...

    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id234.html

    'check on Madeleine'?

    Didn't the twins need a check or weren't they in the apartment?

    ReplyDelete
  64. Poster 61
    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id212.html

    GM: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion. The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you'd got to your overdraft limit and you'd gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank.

    ReplyDelete
  65. 59 and 60 Your publicity is a bit spammy, the Gaspar statements are already on this blog; the translations or should I say the retroversions were done and corrected here and at The Maddie Case Files Forum. Which, by the way reminds me to ask again for people who use the translations of the forum or blog to do so under a Creative Commons License Attribution Non-commercial No Derivatives 3.0 Unported, read what that means in each respective language at the links bellow:
    Português
    English GB
    English US
    Castellano
    Français

    36 Lies or Censorship?
    The Euro Weekly News - a newspaper aimed at the British ex-pat communities in Southern Europe, mainly for the Spanish market - was the first English newspaper to divulge, even if partially the Gaspar Statements, citing word by word a small excerpt of our translation. Soon enough that same newspaper was forced, or let's say was Carter-Rucked, and obliged to remove that article from their multiple Spanish editions. The Euro Weekly newspaper article is also here for future memory, as well as the other acts of suppression and systematic censorship attempted by that lawyers firm on their clients name.

    ReplyDelete
  66. 35 Addendum

    Perhaps you should read the D-Notice sent to this blog, threatening with legal action a Portuguese Citizen that owns no obligation whatsoever to what is a 98 year-old convention between the UK media editors and the British Ministry of Defence [more specifically the committee chaired in permanence by the Under-Secretary of State for Defence] aka Defence Press and Broadcasting Advisory Committee (DPBAC).

    «In Britain, a Defence Advisory Notice or DA-Notice (called a Defence Notice or D-Notice until 1993) is an official request to news editors not to publish or broadcast items on specified subjects for reasons of national security.

    D-Notices and DA-notices are merely a request and therefore not legally enforceable and consequently news editors can choose to ignore them without (in theory) official repercussions, although they are generally accepted by the media.»

    The «Streisand Effect» in motion - cryptome, repercussions of the threats.

    Pay close attention to the fact that Mr. Henry Exton lawyers only «slapped» the D-Notice (article 5) to suppress an article published on Alexander Lebdev's Evening Standard whilst other newspapers belonging to other media groups, as far as I know, have never received a D-Notice by the same lawyers representing the same client using the same «national security» excuse, an excuse that seemed more an attempt to cover up a potential embarrassment. Look for example at the newspapers or tabloids belonging to Murdoch's News Corporation like the Times or the Sun or to Paul Dacre's Daily Mail [Daily Mail and General Trust plc].

    Those are articles that specifically mention and/or publicize Mr. Henry Exton either as a former MI5 or as a former head of undercover operations "working" for the McCann couple, along with (the now wanted allegedly for fraud by the FBI) Kevin Halligen; both "detectives" were paid (again allegedly) by the millionaire Brian Kennedy

    continues bellow

    ReplyDelete
  67. 35 In Conclusion

    Extract from the Guardian:

    «(...) A £500,000 contract given to Kevin Halligen's private detective agency, Oakley International, to help with the search for the missing child was terminated last year after a major benefactor of the McCanns expressed concerns about the quality of the firm's work.

    However, Halligen is now wanted by the FBI following an indictment issued by US authorities in connection with allegations that he defrauded a London law firm of money that was supposed to be used to lobby for the release of two executives from the Dutch company Trafigura, arrested in the Ivory Coast.(...)

    (...)The McCanns' spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "Oakley International was contracted to help with the search for Madeleine. Due diligence was carried out at every stage and payment was only made for work properly carried out. It was only towards the end of the six-month contract that question marks were raised about delivery in some areas and the contract was terminated."

    The McCanns did not contact the police about Halligen, who visited their home, but his behaviour aroused suspicions at an early stage among the couple and their advisers.

    Oakley International secured the contract from the Find Madeleine Fund to monitor the phone hotline, sift through CCTV footage of possible sightings and carry out investigative work.

    However, it was terminated after the British double-glazing millionaire Brian Kennedy, who has underwritten the fund's work, raised concerns. Documents reportedly show that Halligen's company was withdrawing large amounts of money for personal use.»

    Private detectives, 28 November 2009

    By Gonçalo Amaral

    In Portugal, as far as criminal investigation is concerned, the activity of private detectives is forbidden. Despite that, in a famous media-exposed case, detectives have passed through here, some British, others Spanish.

    At least since the 10th of May 2007, said detectives operated in our country under the silence from our authorities. They were looking for a mysteriously disappeared English child. After two years and several months, they found nothing. Without questioning the investigation methods and their police logics, it was easy to find a scapegoat.

    The Book which the author of this column wrote and edited in July 2008 would have questioned the success of the private investigations. The reports from those investigations were kept in secrecy, but bits and pieces become known. The use of communication agencies in order to influence [public opinion], cannot erase, or clean up, the disastrous work done by those illustrious detectives.

    It seems that one of them even took a hefty amount, but that is something that will be investigated in England and in the United States, being certain that that investigation will not be carried out by private detectives. As far as I am concerned, I am tranquil and I trust justice, which cannot accuse me of the failure and the mistakes of others. That is something for private detectives to do.

    ReplyDelete
  68. I don't know why they did not use Catriona Baker as a nanny, after all, they did know her, and she did change her statement. Did she also sign Madeleine out late afternoon 3rd ? Handwriting not exactly the same as K McCann but a good try !

    ReplyDelete
  69. Henri Exton had quite a career, including recruiting "supergrasses".

    Is the D-notice due to the need to protect him personally from retaliation or is the D-notice due the need to protect the current British intelligence service members involved in the McCann case?

    Was it only an internet rumor that the McCanns were escorted home from Portugal in a Special Branch vehicle?

    Definition: "An informer providing substantial quantities of information on criminal or terrorist activities to the police."

    Is there any information regarding how or why Brian Kennedy knew Henri Exton?

    Wasn't it reported that Kennedy hired Exton, who then hired Halligen?

    An old article by Steve Panter in the Manchester Evening News:

    December 31, 1998
    A gong for the secret detective

    A top-secret detective who risked his life time after time in the line of duty has been honoured for his courage. The master of deep infiltration of major crime rings becomes an OBE today. Henri Exton headed Greater Manchester Police undercover unit before he retired five years ago. The former detective chief inspector has continued in his specialist field and is now with the Ministry of Defence. His work while he was in Manchester varied from penetrating notorious soccer gangs to uncovering evidence which proved a convicted killer innocent.

    Mr Exton was later "loaned out" by GMP to other forces and on one such mission was held hostage by a gang he inflitrated in the south of England - but retained his cover. His early successes in Greater Manchester in the 1970s and 80s involved uncovering organised crime rings and recruiting supergrasses.

    He was heavily involved in the huge armed robbery inquiry Operation Belgium, so-called because of his Belgian family background. He became a trusted "member" of notorious 1970s soccer gang the Young Guvnors who followed Manchester City and caused serious violence across the country. In fact he became a leader of the Guvnors and had to take part in some organised incidents to preserve his cover. He even had to endure a beating in a cell in Wales inflicted by police officers who were convinced he was a soccer thug.

    In Italy, during the 1990 World Cup, he wore an Italian policeman's uniform then switched sides to pose as a football hooligan. One triumph was pretending to be a drugs buyer. His role was so sensitive that, when he was awarded the Queen's Police Medal for outstanding skills and bravery, it was kept secret.

    Two other officers have been awarded the Queen's Police Medal for their services in Greater Manchester. Chief Supt Andrew Glaister, who retired last March after 35 years as an officer in Manchester, was head of GMP's C division. The other officer honoured today cannot be named.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Coming back from a few days in London, a wonderful city, I have to report that people whom I spoke out there, hotel, restaurants, pubs, believe that Madeleine is dead and that she died on May the 3rd.
    They don't believe the McCanns.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Poster 64, thank you from 61.
    Unbelievable 'the analogy that I like to use ...' (GM)
    What is the meaning of this analogy; to make people understand how it feels when your daughter has been 'abducted'?

    Joana, thank you for the information and for everything you do.

    ReplyDelete
  72. From anon. #59/60, to Joana,

    I'm sorry for any inconvenience I might have caused, but the links I gave are not about the Gaspars statements, it's only the name of the site/blog where the Express article with the title " MADELEINE -McCanns are lying" can be read. I 'm fully aware that the statements of the Gaspar couple are available here on your blog, if anyone was enquiring about thiose I certainly would have pointed them towards the right direction, your blog, McCann Files, The maddie case files, etc.
    Hope it clarifies things...

    ReplyDelete
  73. 69 could you give us a link to save the article on pdf , please? Thank you.

    72 no probs. :) thanks for sharing the article.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Poster 62 Mary from Liverpool is right with her comments about the McCanns silence and their fear while Amaral is still around and this stupidity not going on forever. I therefore think that the forthcoming libel trial will be the watershed. It will be the equivalent of a court trial. Sadly, the verdict will I believe go in favour of the celebrity child-neglectors. They not only have the might of the British Establishment and gutter press behind them, but also a corrupt Portugese Judiciary. Amaral will sadly be vanquished. And it will a long way back for all of us on here. It will an almost impossible task to convince an indifferent world that the verdict was part of the biggest cover-up in criminal history.

    ReplyDelete
  75. re: 35 and 53

    zilch

    quod erat demonstrandum

    isar

    ReplyDelete
  76. I think most children who were using the crèche at the Ocean Club came from the UK, if not all them.
    On Amaral's DVD, I noticed that Kate signed the crèche document at 5.30pm but she wrote down 17.30hs.
    Under her signature you can read other English people wrote down 3.00, 5.00(pm)(15.00, 17.00hs).
    She was among Anglo Sax people, shorter than one week in Portugal, she spoke no other language than English during that week.
    I know when she was pregnant with the twins, she lived for one year in Holland where she did not have a job.
    It was nearly three years before they went to Luz.
    Did she write 17.30, 18.00 etc in Holland at that time, when she was doing her household?
    Working in the household, she did not need to write down the hours, on the European way.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Very interesting that some Tapas wrote down on a book the time they checked on the children.

    8.45pm, 9.00pm. 10.00pm etc.
    No 20.45, 21.00, 22.00hs etc

    I wonder how Kate wrote down the other days.

    ReplyDelete
  78. At least somebody in Portugal, who writes on this blog, must have read "The English Gagg".

    Could this person please tell us what Amaral writes about the blanket?

    People who can not read Portuguese are lost.

    Joana, we support you, we admire you, please tell us, support us.

    What about the blanket?

    ReplyDelete
  79. @36,you are early at your desk it's only 9.36 am
    Was that a quick dash to school,drop twins off and then back to work
    Just out of curiosity , I would like to know how long that round trip would take

    ReplyDelete
  80. FROM E-POLITIX.COM

    FARRELLY BATTLES ‘LAWYERS FOR MORDOR’

    By Richard Chidwick - 19th July 2010

    Opponents of the proposed Defamation Bill are like evil Lord of the Rings characters, according to a Labour MP.

    Speaking during a Westminster Hall debate, Paul Farrelly, (Lab, Newcastle-under-Lyme) said the gathering opposition to reform of libel laws put him in mind of the struggle between good and evil in Tolkien’s classic novel.

    "It reminds me of a scene from 'The Lord of the Rings'," he said. "In which Sauron summons his 'Carter-U'Ruck-hai' and the Orcs, those 'Lawyers for Mordor Standards'," he said.

    Farrelly famously had a run in with law firm Carter-Ruck, claiming they had attempted to gag him in Parliament.

    http://www.epolitix.com/latestnews/article-detail/newsarticle/farrelly-battles-lawyers-for-mordor/

    ReplyDelete
  81. 78 please read Gonçalo Amaral: An interview with Semanário Privado

    For reasons that should be obvious, we will not translate The English Gag [A Mordaça Inglesa] like we didn't translate the book titled Maddie, The Truth of the Lie [Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira] - nevertheless with the authors consent we translated excerpts like Locard's Truth - The Preface to The English Gag, not only from the above mentioned books but as well from other books and articles that were written about the case since 2007.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Excerpt from Press Gazette feature story re: Daily Mirror journalists Penman and Sommerlad’s investigations of con-men & fraudsters

    16 July 2010
    By Dominic Ponsford


    "Grossly immoral"

    While the majority of story tips come from the paper’s readers and internet users who find them through search engines, Penman says that he also gets tip-offs from those involved in upholding the law.

    “Some of the stories come from people in official organisations who realise something grossly immoral is going on but don’t have the power, evidence or possibly resources to take official action. They realise the only thing they can do is publicise what is going on.

    “If a copper comes across a scam and realises they are never going to have the resources to investigate it properly, or it might be something which is immoral but not illegal, then perhaps the next best way forward is to get the people behind it exposed in a national newspaper.”

    Although the pair’s targets frequently employ the services of London’s top media law firms and attempt to sue them, Penman says he has never been successfully sued in 13 years: “We have evidence for what we write.”

    Sommerlad notes that their ability to not be intimidated by the likes of law firms CARTER-RUCK and SCHILLINGS is one thing which gives their column an edge over “citizen journalists”.

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=45715&c=1

    ReplyDelete
  83. Joana, why are you convinced that the Exton 'D Notice' had something to do with the Mccanns? There is zilch evidence for this.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Reply from Theresa May:

    Dated 19 July 2010

    Thank you for your email of 4th July 2010 regarding the tragic case of Madeleine McCann.

    I can confirm that Mr and Mrs McCann have written to me asking for a meeting, to which I have agreed. The Government's primary concern in this matter is the wellbeing of Madeleine McCann, and to ensure that everything possible is being done to progress the search for her. Given that Madeleine disappeared in Portugal, the Portuguese police retain the lead in this case. The British authorities will continue to liaise with them as necessary on any developments.

    We continue to hope that Madeleine will be found alive and well. Thank you once again for contacting me about this issue.

    Yours sincerely,
    (signed)
    The Rt Hon Theresa May MP

    ----
    This reply is to my letter documented above in post 19 on the "Stop the Presses!" thread, reproduced here for convenience:

    First of all, many congratulations on your new position as Home Secretary... a well deserved appointment!

    I am writing to let you know that there has been at least one article in the tabloid press linking your name with the Madeleine McCann case, which I'm sure you are aware is highly emotionally charged.

    There are many who view the facts of this case with great suspicion, and consider the actions of the McCann family under the circumstances unexpected and surprising, especially actions taken to ban books expressing opinions that oppose their own.

    If you are indeed taking a personal interest in the case, as the tabloids suggest, then I ask on behalf of many, that you consider carefully *all* the facts in the case, including the investigation conducted by the Portuguese police.

    ---

    --Trismegistus

    ReplyDelete
  85. Quote - Anonymous said... 24

    Is there any record, e.g. credit cards, etc., that the McCanns purchased some sort of cooling device around the time Madeleine disappeared.

    It would not necessarily have to be a fridge or a freezer.

    I do hope this case is reopened. Dr Amaral has said there is evidence that the body was kept frozen at some time. If so, there has to be something, somewhere, that can prove this. If this is traced back to the McCanns then how can they not bring charges.
    - end quote.

    I'm sorry, but this is one thing Amaral got wrong. There was no evidence whatsoever that Madeleine's body was kept frozen, or that she was ever in the hire car.

    If the police had actually understood the forensic evidence, this case might have taken a very different course.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Hi ShuBob (Post 2) I saw a representative of Warner's being interviewed on television, the day after the news of Madeleine's disappearance broke. I heard him say, that the McCanns were offered 3 child care services by Warner's.

    The first service the McCanns were offered was the evening creche. They declined that service, because they said their children had a strict bedtime routine.

    The McCanns were then offered a baby sitter, who would be a nanny in the day creche that the McCanns children were going to attend. They would have had to have paid for this service, but they declined the baby sitter, saying they didn't want their children to wake up and find a stranger in their apartment.

    The last service the McCanns were offered was a listener service, they declined that service, because they said the listener was doing nothing different to what they would be doing.

    I don't know if these services were offered to the McCanns when they first arrived at the resort or after Warner's had received complaints about the McCann children crying.

    Warner's no longer use the listener service.

    I find the McCanns refusal to use a baby sitter disgusting along with their excuse for not using the baby sitter. For them to prefer to leave their children, in an unlocked darkened apartment, with drugs lying around on a table, that were accessible to Madeleine, smacks of a couple who didn't give a flying fig, for the welfare of their children.

    In fact I don't know why they bothered to take the children with them on holiday, or even embark on IVF treatment, they definitely don't strike me as a paternal and maternal couple.

    While they dumped their children in the day creche, so they could have "me time" with their mates, at least their children were safe.

    What I don't get is the way they left their children in a very dangerous environment in the evenings, while they embarked on more "me time" with the friends they spent every day with.

    I distinctly heard Gerry McCann say, when he was leaving the Portuguse court, at the time of the McCann vie Amaral case, that they regretted leaving Madeleine alone, on the night she disappeared and I firmly believe that the McCanns had an ulterior motive for leaving Madeleine alone and they didn't want the twins around in case they woke up, and saw whatever was happening to Madeleine.

    I believe the twins were taken to the apartment of David Payne, by David Payne. He spent time in the McCanns apartment with Kate McCann,on the evening Madeleine disappeared while Gerry McCann played tennis. David Payne and Kate McCann both gave conflicting timelines, as to how long David Payne was in the McCanns apartment.

    Too many lies have been told by the McCanns, David Payne and Jane Tanner, for the McCanns not to have been more involved in Madeleine's disappearance, than neglect. No one who has had a child go missing, would lie to save their own skins, unless they were involved in helping their child disappear.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Talking of Carter-Ruck, it is obviously silly season for them too. Another letter from the McCann's rich lawyers threatening legal action (libel) againt Tony Bennet for daring to continue his fight for justice for Madeleine. Kate should have answered the 48 questions so the world could judge the veracity of her version of events. Was she maybe worried that her words might contradict those of Gerry and her tapas pals?

    ReplyDelete
  88. Anon 87
    "Was she maybe worried that her words might contradict those of Gerry and her tapas pals?"
    I think that is the most likely explanation. Nearly all of the press interviews had them both together with G gripping K's upper arm, so much that there were photos of physical bruising, and G cutting across K when she started to say anything more than Yes or No.
    When K was allowed out without G she made a total cods of the whole thing, "Whoosh Clunk". 'giving someone her tuppenceworth' and so on. All ghastly indiscretions and very much off script.
    Hence the employment of a pink spokes-thing, at least to try to get one story, though that has spectacularly failed too, with Beckham-Barcelona-luxury hyperspeed yacht versus Hellish Lair within 10 miles being broadcast simultaneously.
    Note to McCanns and Clarrie, - could you let us know sometime which is the current story. it is all terribly confusing

    ReplyDelete
  89. @Kathybelle. That is incredible. Why have they never been challenged for saying they didn´t want their children to wake up and find a stranger in the apartment? So did they think it preferable for a child to wake up and find nobody there at all? To wake up in the dark with no adult around to comfort you, not even an unfamiliar babysitter, is one of the most traumatic things a small child can experience and you don´t even need a medical degree to know it.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Anon 85

    Is that it?

    Aren't you at least going to lay out an argument in favour of what you are saying and against what Dr Amaral said the findings of the investigation revealed?

    ReplyDelete
  91. Quote - Anon 85

    Is that it?

    Aren't you at least going to lay out an argument in favour of what you are saying and against what Dr Amaral said the findings of the investigation revealed? - end quote.

    Perhaps you could indicate where, in the forensic reports, there is any indication that Madeleine was ever in that car? The supposition that her body must have been kept frozen was as a result of the misunderstanding that the forensics indicated her presence in the car.

    John Lowe was quite explicit. This comes down to the matter of the 15 markers. He categorically said that the results were not capable of any meaningful interpretation, and his report certainly did not conclude that it provided proof that Madeleine had been in the car. The fact that the sample contained DNA contributed by several people, and that between them Madeleine's parents possess all Madeleine's markers means that the only possible interpretation was that there could be no interpretation. To claim anything else would potentially mislead and would be pulled to pieces in court. Lowe did not make those claims. Nor were there differences between the claims made by the FSS in the differing reports they submitted. The mistakes were on the Portuguese side. I cannot say whether there were mistakes made by the UK police in how those results were conveyed to the PJ, but I suspect so, from comments in Dr Amaral's book.

    Don't get me wrong, I am no supporter of the McCanns - I could not be further from it - but it is stupid mistakes like this which gave them ammunition.
    Anyway, as I say, you try and find any indication whatsoever that Madeleine was ever in that car. If you are going to mention the reaction of the dogs, by the way, this could be explained by odour transfer - that is, items carried in the car at some point which HAD been in contact with a cadaver. It doesn't prove her body was there

    ReplyDelete
  92. Good morning poster (89) Some of the McCanns interviews are still available on You Tube and information regarding the McCanns behaviour and statements, are available to read on www.mccannfiles.com. There is overwhelming evidence that the McCanns should have been prosecuted for the neglect of their children.

    The McCanns have been challenged by German and Spanish television presenters. When they were interviewed by the German presenter, they flew into a rage because the German presenter dared question them about leaving their children in that darkened unlocked apartment.

    When the Spanish presenter questioned the McCanns, about their decision to leave their children without adult supervision, Gerry McCann lost his temper, threw his microphone on the floor and stomped out of the studio.

    Goncalo Amaral and a former Portuguese inspector, both said in the recent Amaral vie McCann court case in Portugal, that they wanted to prosecute the McCanns, but the British Government intervened.


    The British Government were not challenged by anyone to my knowledge, about the revelations of Goncalo Amaral and the Portuguese police inspector, regarding their intervention and the British Government never issued a statement, as to why they interfered.

    The British Goverment's silence speaks volumes in my opinion. So does the McCanns and the Paynes silence, regarding Catherine Gaspar's very public revelation regarding David Payne's sexual gestures to Gerry McCann about Madeleine.

    The McCanns as we know are not known for staying silent, if someone has made critical statements about them and if they can sue they will do so. The McCanns silence, shows that Catherine Gaspar was telling the truth about Payne's gestures and it makes me wonder what was going on in the McCanns apartment, when David Payne was alone with Kate McCann and the children, while Gerry McCann was playing tennis.

    If he was playing tennis, the McCanns have told so many lies that I wouldn't believe them if they said the sky was blue, I would have to check for myself.

    I also believe the McCanns know where Madeleine was taken to and if she is dead or alive.

    ReplyDelete
  93. Anon 92

    Dr Amaral has stated clearly that the cadaver was believed to have been frozen at some point in time because of forensic evidence recovered. It had nothing to do with whether it was identified as Madeleine or not, just that it was known to have been frozen at some point in time.

    Being as how we have only seen a fraction of what the File contains we may not be getting the full picture. Just like the fridge they were searching for. Does the released File mention that and why they were searching?

    We have only been privy to a part of the investigation. The rest is kept hidden from the public, and how the McCanns would like to get hold of it.

    Dr Amaral has said there are other things that he is not able to talk about at this time because of the investigation. It may be shelved but it is not closed.

    Why would they be wanting to put all their cards on the table so as to alert those they want to prosecute in the future.

    ReplyDelete
  94. If the McCanns are involved in the disappearance of Madeleine, let alone in her death, however that happened, then it also includes a MASSIVE FRAUD on the public.

    They must have been given millions by telling people Madeleine has been abducted.

    They could never begin to pay it all back.

    The amount would be akin to robbing a bank.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Hi poster 95, the McCanns are involved in Madeleine's disappearance, whether she was abducted or not, by the fact they neglected to take proper care of her, on the night she disappeared.

    I know they neglected to take proper care of all 3 of their children, on the other evenings they were left alone, but because nothing happened on those nights, the PJ would probably be unable to prosecute them for those offences.

    They did commit offences, because Portuguese and British lawyers say they broke the law when they neglected their children, especially Madeleine, on the night she disappeared.

    The McCanns family and friends should also be made accountable for setting up a fund shortly after Madeleine disappeared. They said the fund was to be used to find Madeleine. I would like to know why they desperately needed a fund to find Madeleine, when the Portuguese police were searching for her. I would also like to know how the McCanns, their family and their friends, knew Madeleine was not going to be found pretty soon, if they needed a fund to find her?

    There was also a reward of around £1½ million, pledged by newspapers, businessmen, JK Rowling and David Beckham. So why was money so urgently needed? I think the McCanns were strapped for cash, because they had only been in PDL for a couple of months, when they dipped into the fund to pay their mortgage on their Leicestershire home. They were made to put the money back, but how could they put the money back, if they didn't have the money to pay their mortgage in the first place?

    Unless they did have money and they decided to unofficially use the fund money to fund their lifestyle. The terms of the fund were eventually changed to allow the McCanns to use the money to eke out their finances. Clarence Mitchel recently revealed, that the McCanns wider family are now able to use the fund money to eke out their finances.

    Have the McCanns and their wider family got no shame? Obviously not. Neither have they any feelings for Madeleine, if they did, they wouldn't touch a penny of the fund.

    ReplyDelete
  96. We have only been privy to a part of the investigation. The rest is kept hidden from the public, and how the McCanns would like to get hold of it.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Quote by anon 94 - Dr Amaral has stated clearly that the cadaver was believed to have been frozen at some point in time because of forensic evidence recovered. It had nothing to do with whether it was identified as Madeleine or not, just that it was known to have been frozen at some point in time.

    Being as how we have only seen a fraction of what the File contains we may not be getting the full picture. Just like the fridge they were searching for. Does the released File mention that and why they were searching? - end quote

    I know exactly what Dr Amaral said. And he was wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.

    It is quite clear from reading both Amaral's book, and interviews at the time, together with the documents which are in the files, that there was both a mis-communication and a misunderstanding, and it does not come from the FSS - their reports are crystal clear. Absolutely crystal clear.

    The police, both here, and there, got it completely wrong. They thought they were being told that the 15 of 19 alleles meant they had proof Madeleine had been in the car. They didn't and she hadn't.

    Ever wonder why the McCanns and their publicity machine chose to focus on the supposed evidence in the car? Because they know categorically that the PJ had no such evidence, and they knew Madeleine had never been transported in the car.

    At some point people are going to have to face up to this. The Leicestershire police and the PJ cocked the investigation up on this point. Comprehensively cocked it up

    Questions were put to both Kate and Gerry McCann during their arguido interviews for which the PJ simply had no evidence. None. Some of us realised this a long time ago. Anyone who can read and who has a basic understanding of DNA analysis could understand it. Police forces should NEVER make claims they can't substantiate. It is the equivalent of showing another player one's cards and expecting them not to take advantage.

    And if I sound angry, it's because I am. This investigation was botched. Why the hell didn't they Have someone explain the forensics results properly? That's what I fail to understand.

    ReplyDelete
  98. If a fridge was purchased by either the McCanns or the villa-owner, surely that would beeasy to check, even now?
    It would not involve need ing access to their/Gerry's credit card/banl account iformation at all - that would only be needed as confirmation.
    There must be only a certain amount of fridge suppliers, electrical goods stores in that area.Any investigator would only need to go through the shops' delivery records to find out the day/time/ model/price, etc.
    They might also know where the previous fridge went to, if they did not remove it for recycling/or to transfer it to the dump.
    I think there are many clues just lying around in the back rooms of the Pria da Luz area, completely ignored.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Anon 98

    Dr Amaral was not talking about identification of DNA with reference to the forensic evidence found which he was referring to, the substance of which revealed it to be from a previously frozen cadaver.

    You appear to be confusing the two things.

    It is not about DNA. It is about the type of substance which could only have come from a previously frozen cadaver.

    That is why they were searching for a fridge or some such thing at one time during the investigation.

    Did they ever find what they were looking for? Or is it still lying around somewhere? Who knows.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anon 99

    Dr Amaral said they were about to check out some place the McCanns had been seen going to before he was pulled off the investigation.

    Without the McCann connection to the address how would they know if that was place where the fridge or whatever was?

    If only Dr Amaral had been left on the case it may have been done and dusted by now.

    Certainly a case with much obstruction.

    ReplyDelete
  101. It is clear that FSS has been complicit in the cover-up, therefore the DNA results can never be used as an argument for guilt or innocence. It is not the first time Forensic Science Services have been involved in a crime. The case of Sean Hoey of the Real IRA is an example. There are others.

    If the truth about the McCann case is finally exposed, they might as well open the doors of all the prisons housing people convicted by evidence provided by the FSS.

    It is an outrage, and the Brits will NEVER own up to their misdeeds in any cases involving MI5. MI5 has this government by the balls and that's the truth of the matter.

    The question to ask is why the McCanns have connections to so many intelligence agents and how that came about.

    ReplyDelete
  102. 101 I think it was the Villa del Arte, described as a pink building nearby.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Very disturbing, Joana, that you refuse to publish posts which I can only assume you know contain the truth.

    Let me make a couple of things clear to you

    I hold the McCanns 100% responsible for what happened to their child. I think their treatment of people such as Dr Amaral has been utterly appalling.

    But none of that can change the facts, Joana.

    The forensics reports were clear, they were unequivocal. Maybe they were not as easy for a lay person to understand as I thought. It is different for me. I am a scientist. I'm not involved in forensics, my area is associated with genetic disorders, but it does give me the advantage of being able to understand those documents and interpret the results.

    The PJ misunderstood them. It also looks as if Stuart Prior misunderstood them too. There never was any evidence that Madeleine was in that car, Joana. 15 markers from the 19 she carried. But from a mixed sample containing 37 markers, contributed by at least three people. Don't you understand, Joana, that a mixed sample of Kate's and Gerry's DNA would provide ALL the markers required? That's why John Lowe explained it so carefully. That sample never showed Madeleine was in the car. It didn't show ANYTHING, Joanna. The PJ made a mistake, and blew the investigation wildly off course, simultaneously providing the McCanns with a reason to sue Dr Amaral at some point in the future.

    I think he is a good man, a sincere man, and one who did his best to find out what happened to the child. But when it came to the forensics, he, and his colleagues, made errors.

    You can only silence people for so long, Joana. Many of the Pros have already worked it out, they have read the documents, looked at what Inspector Carlos left out of his memo to Dr Amaral. They know. It would serve those of us who believe the McCanns know what happened to their child to stop burying our heads in the sand and pretending that the forensics proved things which they simply didn't. It worries me greatly. And expert witness with half a brain could tear Chapter 18 of Dr Amaral's book to smithereens in seconds. If he goes into the witness box and tries to defend the conclusions in there, he is finished. I hope that doesn't happen. I stopped posting on here some while ago, because I was fed up with ignorant people treating the truth as if it was witchcraft. It saddens me to see what this has become, this place which used to be a refuge for those of us who just wanted the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Anyone who has been to Praia Da Luz and has walked around the apartment, which is what I did last week, will noticed that right above the front entrance to the McCann flat there is, attached to exterior wall, a powerful flood light probably of 1,000 to 2,000 watt output. That is a safety floodlight so how would any would be kidnapper risk being caught by kidnaping a child right under such powerful light ?

    ReplyDelete
  105. @104,so are you saying that Mr Amaral has got it all wrong even though he worked on the case and has privy to things we do not know about,hmmm ,think i will go back and read his book.

    ReplyDelete
  106. What was that poster 104 said about "ignorant people treating the truth as if it were witchcraft"? Perhaps the poster could have been alluding to the British Media who have made the two repugnent child-neglectors into national celebrities. With regards to Mr Amaral being finished if he were to face expert questioning over the DNA-he's finished anyway. The celebrity child-neglectors know they have people in high places in Portugal protecting them as well as the British Establishment. Gerry of course will never face rigorous questioning in a court about the findings of the dogs. If he did he would give the same answer probably he gave to Sandra Fergus.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Quote - Anonymous said... 107

    What was that poster 104 said about "ignorant people treating the truth as if it were witchcraft"? Perhaps the poster could have been alluding to the British Media who have made the two repugnent child-neglectors into national celebrities. With regards to Mr Amaral being finished if he were to face expert questioning over the DNA-he's finished anyway. The celebrity child-neglectors know they have people in high places in Portugal protecting them as well as the British Establishment. Gerry of course will never face rigorous questioning in a court about the findings of the dogs. If he did he would give the same answer probably he gave to Sandra Fergus.

    End quote

    Yes - it is repugnant. You are right. It is utterly repugnant to me that those people did not face prosecution for neglect. It is beyond repugnant that the media kiss their arses. It is nauseating in the extreme that Kate McCann has the brass neck to lecture people about ''personal responsibility'', when whatever happened to her child apparently happened when she was pouring wine down her scrawny throat.

    However.

    That should not and does not mitigate the fact that mistakes were made.Made By Dr Amaral, made by the PJ and possibly by Leicestershire police too.

    You have no idea how much it saddens me that those mistakes were made. It is bloody tragic. What the hell are police forces doing, not having the ability to understand the very evidence they need in order to successfully prosecute a case? It isn't acceptable.

    Joana - I thank you for publishing my post number 104. I wish you would also publish my previous one, where I answered the points raised by poster #100. It is unfair to allow them to claim I am confusing two different things, and then remove my right of reply.
    Having said that, you have my thanks and respect for being prepared to listen and not dismiss my comments,

    I dare say I will have a number of posters who will insist on pointing the finger and accusing me of being pro-McCann - or even Gerry McCann, that has happened on here before. I assure you I am not. What I am is someone who, having read the forensics reports, the case files and then Dr Amaral's book realised to my dismay that the investigation have taken a huge wrong turn, that the FSS had been blamed for mistakes that never happened, and that even now the case is burdened with myths and misunderstandings.

    Thank you

    ReplyDelete
  108. Anon 104

    Good try, but what a totally disingenuous post.

    The DNA analysis may not be trusted, but those best in the world doggies certainly can be, and they are telling that Madeleine died in the holiday apartment.

    They have never been wrong yet, unlike people, who frequently are.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Good to know that poster 104/108 is not pro-McCann and believes that it is repugnant that the McCanns were not charged with child-neglect. It is equally good to know that the poster believes that is beyond repugnant that the British Media have exhalted them. However, I'm not sure what the poster is driving at when he or she states "the investigation have taken a huge wrong turn" The poster is a scientist. I can't believe a scientist would be stupid enough to believe "The Fable, The Fairytale" (I'm quoting the criminoligst Flores) that Madeleine was abducted. Sure, there were mistakes in the investigation-Amaral admits that in his book. Ultimately however, it came to the correct conclusion. It was not only Amaral who believed there was no abduction, but all the investigating team. The only reason this case is "burdened with myths and misunderstandings" is because the McCann loving British media still perpetrate the lie that Madeleine was abducted .

    ReplyDelete
  110. @108 how can you prove that the fss have been blamed for mistakes that never happend,do you work there? you seem to imply that you know more about these result than you are letting on,funny how after all this time that someone has said mr amaral has got it all wrong about the results, have you just started following the case.

    ReplyDelete
  111. please can someone tell me why joana is trying to silence people as 104 says,does she know more than she,s letting on.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Anon 108

    You ARE confusing the DNA evidence and what Dr Amaral is saying about forensic evidence being from a previously frozen cadaver. Dr Amaral has not stated that this forensic evidence is from Madeleine. He is stating it to be from a previously frozen cadaver.

    Madeleine is missing. The cadaver dog, the best, is telling that cadaver scent is in the holiday apartment behind the settee at the same place the blood dog indicated and the blood under the tile was found, and there is evidence of cadaver scent, plus forensic evidence, in the boot of the car.

    As for this case not being prosecutable, that is also not what Dr Amaral says.

    He believes it is still possible with a different prosecutor, and he is the one in the know.

    Regarding your pessimistic comments, it sounds like you are wanting us all to pack up and go home and not continue because it is not worth it being as the DNA evidence can't be proved to be from Madeleine. DNA evidence is often in dispute, and this case does not hang on it.

    Those that want the truth of what happened to Madeleine to be known are not going to pack up and leave. That is not going to happen, so save your undermining of this investigation, and your discrediting of the investigators. They may have made mistakes, but they have been up against interfering powerful forces not seen in other cases.

    Unfortunately, they are still there.

    We are seeing this case unfold. Who knows what information will break it, and which quarter it will spring from.

    We must not have a negative attitude because ultimately it will be solved.

    ReplyDelete
  113. @112, well said,there are definatly people out there that would like us all to forget about madeleine but THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

    ReplyDelete
  114. @112 May I answer that? I do not Silence people! I am not Carter Ruck, nor Isabel Duarte! I do not ban Books! I do not Ban Documentaries! I do not infringe Constitutional Democratic Citizen Rights! I do not desecrate Children's Rights universally recognized as such. I do not gag Free Speech, Freedom of Expression nor Freedom of Press. And unlike you do, I do not hide behind anonymity to state my opinions nor I indulge myself in vitriolic, baseless accusations.

    Lastly, if you feel that you are being silenced, may I ask why don't you open a blog? It's free. Anyone can do that.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Quote - Anonymous said... 110

    Good to know that poster 104/108 is not pro-McCann and believes that it is repugnant that the McCanns were not charged with child-neglect. It is equally good to know that the poster believes that is beyond repugnant that the British Media have exhalted them. However, I'm not sure what the poster is driving at when he or she states "the investigation have taken a huge wrong turn" The poster is a scientist. I can't believe a scientist would be stupid enough to believe "The Fable, The Fairytale" (I'm quoting the criminoligst Flores) that Madeleine was abducted. Sure, there were mistakes in the investigation-Amaral admits that in his book. Ultimately however, it came to the correct conclusion. It was not only Amaral who believed there was no abduction, but all the investigating team. The only reason this case is "burdened with myths and misunderstandings" is because the McCann loving British media still perpetrate the lie that Madeleine was abducted .

    End quote

    Where, at any stage have I given any indication that I think she was abducted? Nowhere.

    She clearly wasn't, and I have no idea how you can have possibly come to that conclusion from my posts.

    What you do not seem to understand is this:

    The PJ mistakenly believed they had evidence which confirmed the presence of Madeleine in a car hired weeks after she disappeared.

    They didn't

    They also thought they had blood samples from 5A which matched Madeleine.

    They didn't.

    What they did have was reports from the FSS which stated that the results which had been obtained - mixed samples, multiple individuals etc - were not open to any meaningful interpretation.

    So what did they do?
    They based their questioning of the McCanns on the misunderstandings - asking them to explain how Madeleine's DNA could be in the car, when in fact they did not have the evidence to support that.

    In doing so, the PJ made an enormous blunder - surely you can see that? The McCanns and their advisors would have known that. The PJ used what technically was a lie in order to try to extract a confession, and courts tend to frown on that kind of thing.

    They should never have claimed they could prove something they could not in fact prove.

    But it doesn't put the abduction nonsense back on the table - it means they seriously cocked up the interrogation of the McCanns.

    Clear now?

    ReplyDelete
  116. Quote - Anonymous said... 109

    Anon 104

    Good try, but what a totally disingenuous post.

    The DNA analysis may not be trusted, but those best in the world doggies certainly can be, and they are telling that Madeleine died in the holiday apartment.

    They have never been wrong yet, unlike people, who frequently are.

    End quote

    No, you completely misunderstand

    There is nothing wrong with the DNA analysis. The DNA analysis is spot on.

    What is at fault is that the DNA analysis did not provide the proof which Amaral claimed it did. The FSS report explained it all in very clear and simple terms. The sample recovered from the car, which Amaral insisted proved Madeleine was transported in it, does not prove anything of the sort.

    In the words of the FSS ''it is not open to meaningful interpretation''

    There is nothing wrong with what the dogs indicated. I am convinced that the dogs were absolutely correct.

    But you know as well as I do that those indications are of no evidentiary value unless they can be confirmed with recovered samples. And they weren't. Frustrating, but true.

    Have any of you actually read the files????

    This is all in there

    ReplyDelete
  117. quote - Anonymous said... 111

    @108 how can you prove that the fss have been blamed for mistakes that never happend,do you work there? you seem to imply that you know more about these result than you are letting on,funny how after all this time that someone has said mr amaral has got it all wrong about the results, have you just started following the case.

    End quote

    If you read Dr Amaral's book, or some of the interview he has given, you will see that he makes reference to the FSS changing or altering their conclusions from one report to the next.

    They didn't

    The reports are in the files. Compare them with what DR Amaral says in his book and you will see immediately that he has made a mistake.

    The FSS did not change their conclusions from one report to the next - that is totally untrue.

    I think it is possible that some of these errors were down to the fact that the reports were written in English, and then translated into Portuguese - maybe the sense was lost at some point, I don't know - but the PJ and Amaral certainly went astray somewhere.

    I don't work for the FSS, no.

    All my information is available to you too. It's in the public arena. And No - I have been following the case since the beginning. It was only possible to put everything together once the files were released, of course.

    And plenty of people have been saying for ages that Amaral got it wrong. You just haven't been listening. And of course many blog owners simply will not publish it - there seems to be a feeling that everyone has to maintain this fiction that Amaral was right, when in fact it does him no favours whatsoever.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Quote - Anonymous said... 113

    Anon 108

    You ARE confusing the DNA evidence and what Dr Amaral is saying about forensic evidence being from a previously frozen cadaver. Dr Amaral has not stated that this forensic evidence is from Madeleine. He is stating it to be from a previously frozen cadaver.

    Madeleine is missing. The cadaver dog, the best, is telling that cadaver scent is in the holiday apartment behind the settee at the same place the blood dog indicated and the blood under the tile was found, and there is evidence of cadaver scent, plus forensic evidence, in the boot of the car.

    As for this case not being prosecutable, that is also not what Dr Amaral says.

    He believes it is still possible with a different prosecutor, and he is the one in the know.

    Regarding your pessimistic comments, it sounds like you are wanting us all to pack up and go home and not continue because it is not worth it being as the DNA evidence can't be proved to be from Madeleine. DNA evidence is often in dispute, and this case does not hang on it.

    Those that want the truth of what happened to Madeleine to be known are not going to pack up and leave. That is not going to happen, so save your undermining of this investigation, and your discrediting of the investigators. They may have made mistakes, but they have been up against interfering powerful forces not seen in other cases.

    Unfortunately, they are still there.

    We are seeing this case unfold. Who knows what information will break it, and which quarter it will spring from.

    We must not have a negative attitude because ultimately it will be solved.

    End quote

    I already answered the first part of your post days ago, but Joana did not see fit to publish it

    I'm afraid I am confusing nothing, although you clearly are - there is no evidence of a previously frozen cadaver being carried in the car - there never was. Truly. The whole frozen body theory was invented to explain how a body dead for more than three weeks could possibly have been carried in the car - but of course that was based on a misconception, because there was no forensic proof that Madeleine had been carried in the car.

    This is quite a simple one to settle really - if there is evidence of a frozen cadaver, please indicate where it is. I can assure you it does not exist.

    You are confusing the indications of the dog with the forensic evidence.

    There is no forensic evidence confirming that Madeleine was in the car, or that she contributed to the samples recovered in 5A - there was no blood recovered, incidentally.

    The case may be prosecutable - but I would like to see how the fact that the police lied in their questions to the McCanns, apparently to try to force a confession, would be dealt with. Cases have faltered on a lot less.

    It does not undermine an investigation, nor is it pessimistic to tell the truth. You do not have to take my word for it. Read the files for yourself. Read John Lowe's reports from the FSS. Read Chapter 18 from Amaral's book and understand how he got it so wrong.

    I still think there is a chance the case will be solved, and I sincerely hope it is, but it won't be if everyone is labouring under a delusion.

    Read the files. Show me where there is any evidence of a frozen cadaver. And for once accept that perhaps someone else is right.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Anon 119

    This is really getting tedious. You tell us you are some sort of scientist, well, you can say anything and you may expect to be believed. Whatever, you are no DNA expert. You have said that yourself. However, this is not about DNA identification so why do you keep going on about it as if it was.

    The information about the cadaver having been previously frozen has come from Dr Amaral himself, who knows far more than any of us about this case.

    He will know far more about what is in the File that has not yet been released, which is most of it. It is kept confidential for a reason, and how the McCanns have tried to get to know what it contains, just like they tried to get the LP to disclose their confidential evidence by taking them to court, but with no success.

    If Dr Amaral says there is evidence of a substance found which indicates a previously frozen cadaver then who are any of us to argue against him. He was not talking about identification of DNA, he was talking about a cadaver having been frozen at some point in time, and evidence of that having been found. It had nothing to do with DNA. It is the TYPE OF FORENSIC SUBSTANCE found that reveals the cadaver was frozen at some time.

    Madeleine is missing.

    The best sniffer dogs in the world are indicating cadaver and blood in the apartment and hire car of the McCanns.

    Believe it or not, but cases do proceed without DNA evidence, which is often corrupted if is there at all.

    Got it yet?

    As to your saying the investigators lied to the McCanns to try and get a confession, that sounds like something devotees of the McCanns would tell people, either that or you have been reading too many articles fed to the media by Clarence.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Anon 119

    I would love to read the Files, unfortunately the main part is under lock and key. As to the rest, it has been read!

    Methinks this is a fishing expedition you are on.

    Dr Amaral is not telling lies about evidence found pointing to a cadaver which has at some time been frozen. The simple reason being that Dr Amaral does not tell lies.

    Maybe some day you will be able to read about it. Until then, like the rest of us, you will have to wait.

    ReplyDelete
  121. @ Anon 120 and 121

    Anon 120 - I have asked you to produce this evidence you state shows that a frozen cadaver was transported in the car. You haven't. That's because you can't. It does not exist.

    Dr Amaral, for all his good points, knows diddly squat about DNA - that is perfectly obvious from reading his book. And clearly, neither do you.

    It's utterly pointless trying to explain anything to someone with such a closed mind. Why don't you take the files, and show the FSS reports to someone with a background in science? In fact, I think perhaps A level biology would be sufficient. Ask them.

    Endlessly repeating that ''If Dr Amaral says there is evidence of a substance found which indicates a previously frozen cadaver then who are any of us to argue against him'', or ''Dr Amaral is not telling lies about evidence found pointing to a cadaver which has at some time been frozen. The simple reason being that Dr Amaral does not tell lies.'' is completely pointless

    He is wrong
    I did not say he lied, I said he made a mistake. He misunderstood

    Or are you so utterly in his thrall that you cannot even admit that possibility to yourself?

    The man was clearly out of his depth. Do you know that months after the lab had confirmed that Madeleine was the natural child of both Kate and Gerry, he was asking another lab to run more tests to prove it? If he understood the first reports telling him that unequivocally she was their child, why on earth was he seeking a different answer from a different lab.

    If you do not understand the results yourselves - which would appear to be the case - then I am happy to explain them, idiot fashion, to you.

    But do not keep coming back with the same reply again and again, and then use the dual cop-out that 1) it must be true because Dr Amaral says so, and 2) you can't prove it because it's in the bit of the files which has not been published

    It isn't. Sorry, but he was wrong. And you can believe me or not, but I'll tell you something. If it ends up being examined in court, then you will see exactly how he is wrong, and wonder why you didn't listen.

    People make mistakes, you know? He did.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Anon 122

    Listen stuck in the groove person, you are the one who has brought up the DNA and gone on and on about it. You have been answered several times now, change the record.

    I am not in the least bit surprised Joana did not allow your posting. It is utterly tedious, but your motive is clear, and that is to try and discredit Dr Amaral and the investigation.

    You are wasting your time because he is trusted and respected, not only by the people who have worked with and know him, but by most of the posters on here. They fully support his efforts against the forces that wish to silence the truth about this case. He is a brave man indeed, as are the rest who have gone forward with this stand against the silencing of freedom of speech, and have been threatened and abused in their attempt.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Anon 122

    Why do you think Dr Amaral would be asking for another lab to test as well?

    Perhaps he didn't bloody trust them.

    Good for him. Now that is intelligence.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Anon 122

    How can you claim to know what is in the unpublished File?

    Rather a sweeping statement to make with obviously no proof to back it up.

    None of us is allowed to read it as it hasn't yet been released.
    Are you claiming to have read it?

    Because if you are, you yourself should be investigated.

    If not, then you should not contradict those who have worked on the case and are in the know by claiming they are lying.

    Sounds like something the McCanns have been trying to do from the start. The dogs are ludicrous, there is no DNA evidence, and no evidence whatsoever, and even if there is evidence then it has been planted by the cops, and the investigators, both Portuguese and UK are stupid.

    You yourself are very handy with your calling people 'idiots'. That smacks of sheer arrogance.

    Now who does that remind us of?

    ReplyDelete
  125. REPLY TO 115

    Hi Joana
    Good reply. In Portugal we call people like 112 "marretas".
    In England they call them, when they wish to sound polite, "narrow minded". I prefer to call them simply 'STUPID' ("...if the papers say it then it must be true"). You're doing a great job, appreciated by thousands in Portugal and in England and in the rest of Europe. Carry on. Un beijinho, Chico
    By the way I was in Praia Da Luz last week

    ReplyDelete
  126. @ anons 123,4,5

    I really do wonder if some of you can actually read.

    Nowhere did I claim to have access to unpublished files - I actually stated very clearly, and on more than one occasion that all my information is in the public arena, and is as freely available to you as it is to me.

    You don't want to listen, that much is clear. I suspect that you actually know I'm right, it's just a little uncomfortable for you.

    That's your choice. You don't have to, you are quite free to remain in ignorance. I should imagine that at some point, perhaps during the libel action, it will all be examined in court in any case, and then you will hear from paid experts who will tell you basically the same that I am.

    I don't believe any of you have read the forensics reports at all. You couldn't possibly be so intransigent if you had. You have never read John Lowe's words, have you? For your information, this is what he says of the sample recovered from the hire car

    ''In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.''

    He goes on to explain
    ''Why - ...

    Well lets look at the question that is being asked

    "Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab "

    It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

    What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

    Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.''

    Understand what he is saying? That it would be very easy to jump up and down and say ''Yipee, it's Madeleine's DNA'', when in fact the results do not confirm that at all. That's your evidence that Madeleine was in the car. A report which says nothing of the kind.

    Had this gone to court, that is the evidence John Lowe would have had to deliver. That it was not possible to say.

    Just think logically for a second - which is more likely?

    That the sample DNA probably comes from a mixture of the other McCann family members, which would obviously contain many of Madeleine's markers, or

    that her body was kept frozen and moved at a date at least three weeks later?

    Come on. Use some intelligence.

    Anyway, I am done with it. I have better things to do than to waste my time with people who are too scared to contemplate the fact that perhaps Dr Amaral made a mistake.

    One thing you should be aware of. Many of the anti-brigade have already worked this out. Unfortunately, they have used it to discredit the dogs, which it simply doesn't. Sadly it doesn't confirm the findings of the dogs, either. But discredit them? No.

    Discredits Dr Amaral, though. And that saddens me, because I think his intentions were of the best. Those of you with influence with him would serve him better to suggest he re-examines his conclusions because these matters and the mistakes which were made derailed this case.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Anon 127

    So all this balony you keep spouting over and over is supposedly because of your concern for Dr Amaral. Don't make me laugh.

    You have no idea what will be presented in evidence at the libel trial, but one thing is for sure, Dr Amaral will on top of it.

    I have no doubts you are from the McCann camp, in fact you sound like Gerry McCann himself.

    What's the matter, are the McCanns getting a tad bit worried they are going to lose and are hoping Dr Amaral will back out. It takes a lot of money to take an action in court. Aren't your pals making it so easy nowadays!

    ReplyDelete
  128. Poster 128 I agree with you that "the scientist" is from the McCann camp. He or she must think we on here are as stupid as though who believe the abduction fairytale. However, I cannot be optomistic about the forthcoming libel trial. The celebrity child-neglectors would not be taking legal against Mr Amaral if they did not believe they were on a sure-fire winner.If the McCanns were ever to be exposed, a lot of questions would be asked about the people in high places who have been protecting them. Those people in high places-including Portugal itself-will ensure that it will not happen.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Anon 129

    The thing is that Dr Amaral has not committed libel as he will be able to prove, much of which is confirmed in the released part of the File which is in the public domain.

    What he states in his book is based on the facts and circumstances surrounding the investigation, and the conclusions reached or speculated on by the investigators.

    It is not about whether or not Madeleine died in the apartment, the DNA evidence is irrelevent to this libel case because the judge is not there to declare whether Madeleine is alive or dead. It is not about that. It is about whether Dr Amaral has libelled the McCanns in his book.

    If he had been proclaiming the McCanns had killed their daughter then they would have a case.

    As it is, they don't, the truth of which may be dawning on them.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Poster 130 I would not dispute what you are saying. However, I fear that the legal team of the celebrity child neglectors will come up with something to win their case. A corrupt Portugese Judiciary will side with them-as they have done so far. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear the worst. As stated in my previous post, the celebrity child-neglectors would not be taking this action unless they were supremely confident of winning. Surely they would have been advised by Mitchell and the other people in high places protecting them not to proceed if it were not so. They could quite easily have just allowed Amaral's book to be published in England and got the British gutter press to either discredit or ignore it.
    Poster 129

    ReplyDelete
  131. The McCanns must be very worried about what other information would be revealed in a libel trial, but they must be hoping he will settle out of court, just as they got those newspapers to hand over the dosh.

    No chance!

    ReplyDelete
  132. I truly believe the answer to this puzzle would be to get an American top medium the ones that crack these American cases.

    ReplyDelete