31 January 2011

The Truth of the Lie is always revealed by the face





by Helena Norte


“People speak without speaking. The face screams”, says Armindo Freitas-Magalhães, director of the Laboratory for Facial Expression of Emotions (FEELab) at Fernando Pessoa University. And it always screams the truth. Even when one tries to hide, simulate or distort.

Because the muscles draw on the face (the stage) the emotions that are generated in the brain (the dressing rooms) in a spontaneous and involuntary way, the psychologist explains. And he states: “Facial expressions never lie”.
Paul Ekman, a famous North American psychologist who inspired the television series “Lie to me”, has cartographed the expression of emotions on the human face, based on muscle movements of the face, the eyes, the nose, the mouth, the eyelids, the eyebrows, the forehead and the neck. The result is the Facial Action Coding System (FACS), a scientifically validated instrument – contrary to the polygraph – that has many uses, including criminal investigation.

The Paul Ekman Group cooperates with the FBI, the CIA, the Scotland Yard and other investigation agencies, just like in the television show, which is fictional and exaggerated in some aspects, but with scientific bases, asserts Freitas-Magalhães, who is also a member of the institution.

In Portugal, the study of facial expressions has never been applied in police investigations and the fact that police interrogation is not recorded on video renders its application more difficult. The FEELab’s director confirms the existence of “non official approaches”, when Madeleine McCann disappeared, and he even came to analyze the parents’ expressions during public statements.

He concluded that when they stated that they had never given their children sedatives, there was no congruence between the verbal language (words) and the non verbal (facial expressions). Which indicates that they lied. “The way one says something is more important than what is being said. Even blinking gives indications about what one is feeling”, the psychologist stresses.

Every expression, every movement has a meaning. More than that: they are universal. A Portuguese person’s face reveals emotions such as happiness, despise or surprise in the same way that a Chinese. In other words, they use the same facial markers. What differs are the rules of social exhibition, Freitas-Magalhães explains, citing Ekman’s studies in New Guinea, which demonstrated the universality of the facial expression of emotions.

Simulations are obviously possible, and some people handle them well, especially in situations where there is an emotional emptiness, but the produced expressions do not comply with the criteria of truthfulness and someone who has mastered the FACS is able to detect the lies. Always, the investigator guarantees. One of the ways to find the falsehood of an expression is to analyze the face’s symmetry: in case of a simulation, the left side’s movements do not match the right side’s movements.




in: Jornal de Notícias, 31.01.2011

281 comments:

  1. The photo above speaks volumes, and no matter what is being discussed I would not believe what was being said.

    Mind you, if the McCanns are saying it, I wouldn't believe it anyway.

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  2. I wonder what he would have made of the "Whosh, clunk" interview on film, where Kate's face contorts into patterns rarely seen in normal human beings.
    (Sorry I don't have the reference)

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  3. @PeterMac 12:16

    I think this video you refer to has literally been whooshed and clunked! However there are many sites that have the video. Strangely enough - in this video she actually demonstrates with her hand what could well have happened to Madeleine. I have noticed before in their interviews that when they speak, sometimes Kate especially, sticks out her tongue, as if pushing away the statement she has just said. This is another way of telling whether someone is speaking the truth or not.

    I think that they subconsciously give away real information but have woven a different story around the facts is how they have been able to fool people and also themselves that what they say is what really happened.

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  4. 'face language' 0.33 Gerry's eyes when Kate is telling a fairy-tale

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is6yRUA4qYo&feature=related

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  5. Whoosh...clunk video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rQazjM-bCo&feature=fvw

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  6. As well as the giveaways in their body language, I have often considered their stress on the single word "abducted". Lies can be built a semblance of the truth, meaning they can be convincing themselves of the albeit partial truth of the word "abducted" ie taken away. Of course she had been taken away, in a conscious or unconscious state, but by one of them. That is how they know she was "abducted" ie taken away. Gerry has sneered: "find the body" (sorry cannot remember the link). He is superconfident!
    They can stress "abduction" and at the same time convince themselves they are telling the truth!!

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  7. #2 and 3, the "whosh clunk" bit can be revisited here:

    http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_LINKS.htm

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  8. http://www.channelislandsforum.co.uk/island-chat/1600-quality-local-journalism.html

    This is just how our media manipulate the populous
    The people in jersey are fighting back, with the courageous efforts of Senator Stuart Syvret

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  9. What exactly do they mean by non-official approaches? And why is this type of thing being said now, nearly 4 years later, if not as an attempt to latch on to the case for publcity for the unit? Basta!

    And comment No6 - Gerry McCann NEVER said 'find the body' - it was a newspaper headline!

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  10. I will always remember the first time I ever saw the mccanns on their first television interview outside their apartment and I felt at once they were lying, they both looked uncomfortable and Kate hardly said a word even though the cameras were on her, Gerry did all the talking, he was in control. Then when I've seen them on TV Opera and Lorraine Kelly again they lie their body language gives them away because they are so uncomfortable with the lies of the abduction that they so desperately want us to believe.
    Well done Joana and Astro great site.

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  11. Gee whiz. Things are not really progressing here are they? I think most folks sensed things were a bit odd about their behaviour without all the cod-psychology and pseudo-science. After 4 years I think it might be worth either saying something new or adopting a new tactic. All the bark bark stuff was valid (if a bit tiresome) for a time but that time has been and gone. If you have something to do - do it and stop talking about it. Imagine if the people in either Egypt or Tunisia had adopted your attitude. They'd all still be sitting around making gently flippant remarks and stroking their beards waiting for change to happen. I don't think you are any more concerned about the truth than the McCanns are.


    What's your next blog going to be about? The baldy man? The angle of the light on the last photos? Same old, same old.

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  12. Whilst there exist many behavioural and psychological tools to evaluate whether or not someone is lying, NO ONE REALLY HAS done with the McCanns. Taking a snippet here and another bit there isn't scientific The media who usually wheel in the experts have opinions to published, but have they ?
    But for desperate parents who have tried it would seem every avenue to get this case reviewed, they always fail at the obvious - THE PORTUGUESDE AUTHORITIES.

    Why hasn't one expert somewhere on planet earth done a really in depth study over the past four years - progressed through from 3rd May 'till now.

    Meadow
    Which makes you wonder about all their other apparent efforts to find their daughter.

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  13. Jo Yates parents are sorry for the Maccann,s because they are not able to bury their daughter, its in today's daily mail. The Maccann,s will not like tha,t Maddie has come to no harm according to them. Jo Yates body has just been released to her family hence the comments.

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  14. I see the McCanns have got their vile mugs in a Daily Mail story about the murdered woman Joana Yeates who went missing, and was then found to have been dumped in some lane.

    Her parents say it must be far worse for the poor McCanns since they don't even know where Madeleine is.

    Please, Dr Amaral, get the English version of your book distributed here in UK soon and help stop the brainwashing that has been going on for years.

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  15. 10 Totally agree.

    IMO the McCanns' body language is a language of parents who lost a daughter by death and not by an abduction. I felt Madeleine was missing right from the McCanns' first television appearance, because her parents 'told' me she was dead. Very bad actors, every time I see and hear them one word: CONTRIVED

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  16. 9 "Gerry McCann NEVER said 'find the body' - it was a newspaper headline"

    http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/Express-13-09-07.htm

    Indeed a newspaper headline, Daily Express, but how do you know that Gerry McCann never said that? Did he sue the Express for that?

    11. Unfortunately not 'same old'. Where is the English version of A Verdade da Mentira of Goncalo Amaral?

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  17. Anon 11,
    good try...go sell your sand to the arabs, I'm not buying it!

    "cantas bem, mas não me alegras"

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  18. Anon 11,
    good try...but, can I suggest you go and sell your sand to the arabs...? We're not buying!

    "Cantas bem, mas não me alegras"

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  19. to @11 Madeleine search was 'hijacked' by McCann publicity machine, Portuguese police claim - (extract) «In the interview, Mr McCann spoke frankly about how he and his wife employed a "strategy" to keep their daughter's plight in the headlines.

    They were criticised in Portugal for circulating pictures of Madeleine and revealing the distinctive fleck in her eye, which police said could have put her life in danger.

    He admitted the plan was risky but that "in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy"

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  20. Doesn't it make you wonder about ''dumping of bodies'' if the accused is indeed guilty, he is an intelligent man. With my local knowledge of the area, or even taking the example of exactly where he dumped it, he could have placed it over the wall on the verge where is was found, no effort was really made to conceal. He certainly (if guilty) has the height & strength to have done that.

    That aside, the point is, this is what murders to, THEY DUMP, they discard. Whether in haste or without regard for the human soul.

    This is what makes Madeleine's case such an engima.

    Meadow.

    PS Is there any real comparison between the two cases? Parents who have lost daughters? A near four year old and a 25 year old? Why must the media draw them together. How much longer will this go on for?

    Meadow

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  21. @ 11 - next post will be about people who chooses the number 11 in their life - generally speaking - please note.

    We have a saying here, number 11 is known by people who are been betrayed by his wife or man or by both. When this happens the victim shows a pair of ..... (11) in the top of his (her) head. I hope this does not fit you, because this is not new either!!!


    P.S. must be cold somewhere out there, isn't it?

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  22. I partially agree with anon 11: it is great time to stop chewing old news and ACT.
    Go take the streets,PROTEST massively in Portugal AND the UK
    Union = Strength = Justice

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  23. Anon 21

    Good point, and Madeleine does not appear to have been dumped anywhere, which if she really had been taken by an abductor there is a good chance she would have been found by now.

    The spin off for the McCanns having a 'still missing' Madeleine several years later has been that they have obtained millions through that Fund of theirs. They even plan events months in advance like they know she is not going to turn up.

    No wonder they don't want anybody to talk about Madeleine being dead, and are still banging on about no evidence that any harm came to her. Who in their right minds would really believe that, because even if she really had been abducted what is that if it is not harm. Arrogant in the extreme that they even dare say something like that.

    I hope the McCanns end up having to pay back ever penny and then some, for daring to obtain all that money on the strength of a fairy story which they cannot prove, and which the real investigators do not buy into as they believe Madeleine died in the apartment.

    For the McCanns to state that Madeleine was abducted as a FACT is a con unless they can prove it, which they can't. The public needs protecting from this pair. Hopefully the dam will burst soon.

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  24. An interesting and powerful thesis for the night of 3 May 2007 (and subsequent Tapas lies through the years) by Johanna at Unterdenteppichgekehrt: The cover-up.

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  25. Not related to Madeleine but an insight about the UK and people in "power" and how anything is possible in the Madeleine"s case and its lack of justice (and of course other cases).

    "WikiLeaks files reveal 'cold, callous and brutal' behaviour of ministers
    A mother who lost her daughter in the Lockerbie attack has condemned the “cold, callous and brutal” behaviour of British ministers after WikiLeaks documents revealed how they secretly advised Libya on securing the successful early release of the bomber. "

    http://tinyurl.com/5vyy86k

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  26. Joana, You're right, Johanna's thesis (re: your post 25) is very compelling. I agree with Johanna that the child probably died on the 2nd and not 3rd May as Goncalo and others suggest. The level of organization, cover stories, witnesses nobbled, would have required at least 24 hours. Yes, the Smith sighting was a spanner in the McCann works requiring Tanner's lie. However, the bulk of the 'cover engineering' had started 24 hours earlier.
    Angelo Del Montello

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  27. Dear Joana, thanks for mentioning my blog and my thesis here on your blog. I have to say that it evolved over the years from discussions and the input from a lot of clever people mainly from your forum that you so kindly supply. Let me take the opportunity to thank again all of you, especially Astro and Ines and yourself. Without your translations we would still be drawing our "knowledge" from the british accomplices to the crime, the gutter press.

    Thank you

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  28. Dear Johanna, you are very welcome, thanks to you German readers(and not only German due to google's translator) have a blog where you have brilliantly divulged information, facts and your opinion on the case, another bridge that connects us all. Vielen dank as well for all that you have done, and still do, große küsse, Joana

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  29. IF the UK wanted to they would investigate the INfamous fund :they are very capable to shut down all internet communication with Egypt
    Read on and boycott Voadafone

    Digital Darkness: U.S., U.K. Companies Help Egyptian Regime Shut Down Telecommunications and Identify Dissident Voices

    http://tinyurl.com/5uulz5r

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  30. I agree totally that Madeleine died May 2nd and have always suspected that was thee only way they could have removed the body before the press camped outside the apartment. I was briefly puzzled by the creche records but they are certainly not infallible as Johanna has illustrated.

    I just don't understand how they have got away with it when the crime is so blatant. And why did they get so much support from UK authorities?

    If they were a paedophile gang someone would pull the plug wouldn't they, believing the behaviour to be wrong and immoral? Surely everyone in the world can't be bought, threatened, bullied, dazzled or framed by the McCann's can they?

    Sheila

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  31. The necro news on Murdoch's SUN: Jo Yeates' parents: It's far worse for McCanns', on Dacre's Mail: 'We're lucky we can bury our Jo... it's far worse for the McCanns, say Joanna Yeates's grieving parents', more via google search and then this by Martin Brunt at his Murdoch SkyNews blog: The Words That Link Madeleine And Jo

    «Sympathy from the parents of murdered Jo Yeates for Kate and Gerry McCann.

    David and Teresa Yeates said they felt "lucky" that at least they were able to give their daughter a funeral.

    Mr. Yeates said: "We really feel for those people who have not been able to bury their children.

    "We keep reminding ourselves that in some way we are, we are loath to use the word, but 'lucky'." The McCanns are one set of people like this, but there are others as well.

    "I can't imagine what it must be like not to be able to bury their children, or to have to bury some bones discovered years later."

    The McCanns responded in a statement: "We are very grateful to David and Teresa Yeates for keeping us in their thoughts at such a painful time for their own family. While the anguish of not knowing what has happened to Madeleine is truly awful, we, of course, still have hope that our ongoing search for our daughter will lead to her being found alive.

    "Recent cases such as that of Carlina White in the USA, reunited with her family after being abducted as a baby some 23 years ago, only serve to renew our resolve to never give up. It again proves that hope is not unfounded.

    "We would ask anyone who has any information about Madeleine to get in touch with their local police immediately or contact our private investigators via www.findmadeleine.com”»

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  32. Johanna's thesis is very interesting and would help explain how the creche records could have been manipulated to make it look as though Madeleine was still alive, and so give extra time to plan what to do. A great deal of thought and research has gone into it. That visit by Payne to the apartment confirming Madeleine was still alive also smacks of something very contrived. Why would it be so important to do that? Payne didn't even seem to know why he went there. Sounds like they were making this up as they went along, but it had to be confirmed that Madeleine was still alive then. That was very important.

    Yet I am still not convinced Madeleine died by accident. An accident would have been so easy for the McCanns to cover by saying they found her next morning and she had died while sleepwalking when they themselves were in bed asleep.

    'An accident, a moment of madness' said Gerry. I rather think it was a 'moment of madness' that somebody would try to convince others was an accident. There is a need for this case to be reopened as a possible murder investigation, especially in light of the Gaspar statements being thrown into the mix as well.

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  33. That is interesting: 'An accident, a moment of madness'

    A moment of madness by a hysterical parent is NOT an accident. This should be clear. I never talked about an accident...

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  34. Johanna, thank you, I hope that your theory that seems to fit the evidence, is passed to the PJ for their consideration.

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  35. To add:
    did it ever occur to anybody that the Gaspar statement could have been a complete fake and the reason the Tapasniks were kept in line? It was an old friend of Kate who made the allegations and it would certainly put the fright into the rest of the group if their power with was shown so substantially.

    They could not know that they would come out eventually and Stu did everything in his power to avoid their release...

    Just an idea, but possible, and it would supply a very good reason to toe the line

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  36. Viver sem um filho (I think this is May 2010 definitely the year 2010)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEeYhWSjVfE

    In the video above GM talks about you've just got to get on with your life @ 7.02 secs GM says:

    as time passes the emotion isn't as raw so if you go back to May and June emmm the grief was very obvious very palpable emm you know Kate was emmm inconsolable for long periods most evenings ye know particulary at night time and that the gaps between those periods we still have them but they get they tend to get further away.

    SF: You are getting used to it.

    GM: Ya ehh i

    KM: I think you adapt (says something I can't make out) like today the sun is shining and it's bright and it's warm and it ye know it's makes you feel nice but then you have that kind of....heavy...(KM shakes hand looking for words, SF says emptiness) yeah an emptinessnest..a heavy reminder really of this is very nice but Madeleine is still missing


    What? You've just got to get on with your life! Well I cannot believe they are talking about an abducted child! How could the emotion EVER be less raw? Especially as they claim their child was not only abducted but abducted by paedophiles. Surely if parents believed their child was being held by paedophiles every waking second of every day would be painful and raw! How could you ever just get on with your life knowing that your child would be suffering? Suffering in ways you could not, would not want to imagine! As for feeling nice...what? Imo they sound like bereaved parents not parents of an abducted by paedophiles child!

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  37. this case is no accident and neither is the cover up that followed!

    I must say poster 11 has a point...a very good one at that.
    Let me say i have no doubt that behind the scenes there are wheels turning, but they always seem to come off or grind to a halt.
    This case is outrageously been covered and yet it has become a topic of dialogue on the wrongs and rights .....but never leading to its aim......Justice.
    is Clarence right, are we powerless? or do we have more cards to play?
    Let me say...i believe the latter.
    but....
    there comes a time where more in your face action is required......it has been that time for a long while - so where do we go? or shall we settle to discuss the finer points of posts.

    action speaks louder than words ....even those in text!

    mojo

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  38. An article relating to Operation Ore the anti/paedophile investigation.

    The Blair government has responded by imposing a comprehensive blackout on this story, effectively removing it from the domain of public discussion. Attempts on the part of this journalist to establish why the British media has not followed up on the revelations have met with a wall of silence. Editors and journalists of The Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, The Independent, The Sunday Times, The Observer, The Sunday Telegraph, The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Mirror, The Sun, the BBC, Independent Television News and even The Sunday Herald have refused to discuss the matter.

    Does any of this ring alarm bells.

    What the Gaspars witnessed were sexual gestures directed at children.

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  39. Johanna, I started thinking about your comment in which you state that Mrs. Gaspar may have not observed what she declared to the police and that she made her deposition to the police to help her friends, the McCanns, keep their colleagues in tow. I put myself in Mr. Payne's shoes and I asked myself if I'm not a paedophile why should I be threatened by such statements. I couldn't think of any reason why. Now, if I was a paedophile and someone made such statements to the police, even if I knew that they were false, then I would feel threatened. Therefore be they true or false, in my opinion, Mrs. Gaspar's statements to the police point to paedophile behaviour. Aren't Mrs. Gaspar's statements also a threat to Mr. McCann, afterall Mr. Payne was supposedly making those lewd gestures in front of Mr. McCann without any negative reaction on his part. Just some food for thought.

    I quickly read your thesis there is a lot of detail and I'll have to read it again at a more appropriate time when I can digest it better. Initially I believed like you that Madeleine died on May 2 based on Madeleine's crying ending abruptly, but I changed my mind and accepted the accuracy of the creche records. The comings and goings of people into that creche has to be further investigated to be sure.

    Anonymous 11, you are right things haven't changed. The McCanns are still saying their daughter was abducted, that the police are incompetent and that their fund is running low. So, unfortunately the most that some of us can do is to continue pointing out that they are liars and as a result perhaps prevent someone from giving their hard earned money to the McCann team.

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  40. Its almost 4 tears since Madelaine Maccann vanished in Portugal,4 years of spin lies and more spin, a child lost her life that night, that is one thing we all know but 4 years is a long time, with no sign of Madelaine's mortal remains or the person or persons's who committed this dreadful crime ever facing justice. I am now starting to think its gone on too long it is never going to be solved, we are all clutching at straws. The Maccann's have triumphed over all and danced on their daughters makeshift grave.

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  41. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    The cleaning ladies cleaned 5a on Wednesday morning.Kate said that on Wednesday night she lyed down on her own bed, close to Gerry, for about 5 minutes and she went to the children's bedroom.
    On Thursday night Gerry's bed and the children's bedroom bed were messy but Maddíe's and Kate's bed near Gerry looked perfect.
    This means Kate did not use her own bed, even for 5 minutes like she said , on that Wednesday night.
    I think those two perfect beds were made by the cleaning ladies, Wednesday morning because the McCanns do not seem to be concerned about making up beds, at least during their holidays.
    This could mean that Maddie died on Wednesday, before she went to bed, and it could explain why Kate went to Luz last October the 2nd.
    She was concentrated on the 2nd.
    And it could explain why the dog reacted on the inside of the wardrobe, where they hid the child.
    And that story, that the group went to the beach on the 3rd afternoon, forgetting to invite Maddie and their parents.
    And the photo at the swimming pool, Maddie(with a very young face) and only one of the siblings. Where was the other one?
    According to one woman of the group Kate was not well on Thursday morning and stayed home.
    That is why Mrs Fenn did not hear Maddie crying on Wednesday night.
    She was already dead.

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  42. One thing is for sure. If Payne does know the McCanns are the ones responsible for whatever happened to Madeleine, yet the finger is pointing at him because of the Gaspar statements, he would have to be an absolute fool to stay silent and cover for them.

    Maybe as those Gaspar statements become more known about in the UK this will happen. Therefore they should not be allowed to be dismissed as something made up. That is exactly what the McCanns and friends would want and it all swept under the carpet. Never to be discussed again. That is why I believe they are genuine statements of what was seen and heard.

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  43. @guerra

    you said: ""Initially I believed like you that Madeleine died on May 2 based on Madeleine's crying ending abruptly, but I changed my mind and accepted the accuracy of the creche records.""

    The crying incident Mrs. Fenn was talking about happened on May 1, NOT on May 2.
    Mrs. Fenn was not at home on May 2, but they did not know this at the time of the rogatories and suspected an additional statement from her regarding the Wednesday. That is why Jane told the story about her daughter throwing a tantrum on the playground that carried on in the apartment.
    To fool the creche for 2 days was imo impossible, but to fool them 1 day might just have worked. Why else were the nannies shipped off to Greece on May 13th???

    If you read Catriona's rogatory interview, she talks about "some children had the opportunity to return to the port" when mentioning the sailing incident. There is no port in PdL. They returned to the beach, not a port.

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  44. If the Gaspars statements are fake (which I believe they are) do you think that Yvonne Martin's statement was also fake which gives strength to Gaspars statements, Yvonne seemed very unsure if Payne was a victim or perpetrator which did not seem a very proffesional statement to make but perhaps it put the frighteners on Payne.
    Also if the Sun is serialising their book the paper will be asking for donations for mccanns.
    The mccanns are obviously guilty but I cannot see how they are allowed to continue fooling the public and taking money and still nothing is done about them.
    Its like they are allowed to do whatever they want to get more money, tell a pack of lies about Madeleine and dictate how the investigation should be run, baffling truly baffling !!

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  45. Johanna, just read your article I think you are very near to the truth and you have obviously put a lot of work and research into it.

    I do hope this case get solved mccanns are making fools of everybody.

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  46. 43 Well said, totally agree.

    The only reason why Payne stays silent IMO is that he knows what really happened. He cannot afford talking (a pact of silence), they will interrogate him again. The truth must be worse than the fact that only a few British people know that Payne is suspected of paedophilia.

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  47. Johanna

    That is interesting, and did you see that Kate had said that Payne had checked on the kids that night and told them there was no crying.

    This was in response to supposedly Madeleine having asked why she didn't come when they cried. (Although nobody said they had heard any crying that night). Also, if that was believed then it would establish that Madeleine was alive that night, as she supposedly said it the next morning which was the morning of the day she supposedly disappeared.

    As you make a good illustration of how the creche records could have been manipulated, then maybe it was the night that Mrs Fenn heard the crying which was the night when Madeleine died. If the records could have been manipulated for one day, then why not two? That would have given two days to make arrangements for what to do. As for the nannies, they were coming and going as they changed shifts. Did they really know Madeleine when they had the others kids and only a few days? They are obviously not going to admit they weren't really sure who she was.

    Payne mentioned the McCanns had trouble with their fridge in the holiday apartment. What exactly was wrong with it, and which day was that? If only the interviewer had pressed him further on that, as nobody has mentioned it since. Even the McCanns did not mention it, though they said about the shutters.

    Am mentioning that because Dr Amaral said there was evidence that a cadaver had been kept frozen at some time.

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  48. Johanna, you are right it was May 1, I got my dates mixed up. I read Mrs. Fenn's deposition and it just mentions that the child stopped crying when the parents entered which is understandable and it does not necessarily mean that the child was harmed. I wasn't aware that the nannies were shipped off to Greece on May 13th, that is strange.

    It's hard for me to find the time to examine all the stories that the couple and their colleagues created to shore up what they perceived as weaknesses in their abduction scenario. I think many of us believe that all these stories indicate that there was not much time for planning and therefore the girl did die on May 3, instead of earlier. However, perhaps the child did die the day before and the main reason why there seems to be poor planning on their part is that the sighting by the Irishman complicated things.

    It's unfortunate that the phone records and credit records could not have been accessed. I'm certain that they would have cracked the case.

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  49. Just some general comments:

    I am not decided about the truthfulness of the Gaspar statements, but I doubt their content was in any immediate connection to her death. If the tantrum thrown on the playground continued in the apartment on the late afternoon of the 2nd, while Gerry was still playing tennis, and he then left Kate alone with 3 children under 4, one of them hysterical, to proceed to the Tapas with Russell, then David Payne was in no way involved.

    The point about the crying is, that we only know about ONE incident because Mrs. Fenn was not at home during the possible second incident. Tuesday night when Madeleine cried, both parents came back into the apartment a much safer situation than the one described above.

    There was a second addition in the rogatories - apart from Jane's tale about the tantrum - and that was Rachael, describing a bath with Ella and Scarlet, an almost 4-year old with a baby who had diarrhoe!! Since 5D with Ella throwing the tantrum was possibly too far away to explain the crying on Wednesday, a loud bathing event right on the other side of Madeleine's bedroom wall could have explained it as well...

    Too much info as always

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  50. On May the 3rd, at 7am, Kate made a telephon call.
    Maybe to somebody of the Tapas, asking him/her to come to 5a, to tell Madeleine was dead and to plan what to do about it.

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  51. As regards the night Mrs Fenn heard the crying, far from there being nobody with the children, I believe I have read there were phone calls made from the apartment at the time the child was heard crying and that it was Kate who was there making them.

    Also, wasn't that the night that Kate got up and left the Tapas table because the attractive quiz lady was there. Was it really Kate that was crying that night and Mrs Fenn just assumed it was a child, although an older child, not a baby.

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  52. No way would the Gaspar statements be made up to aid the McCanns when Gerry McCann is also implicated in the behaviour. Also, the lady doctor was not a particular friend of Kate McCann's, it was her husband who had known her.

    The McCanns must be wetting themselves realising 'The Truth of the Lie' could hit the UK bookshelves at any time. There is nothing like a book that somebody has tried to ban that makes people want to read it.

    No doubt that book of the McCanns is being put out to try and preempt some of the damage to them from that book. They are going to have to try and discredit the investigators as much as they can.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I can't understand why the Gaspars met up with the McCanns after describing this incident. In Katerina's statement, they met up again a few months before the Mccanns went on holiday to Portugal.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Does anyone know if Goncalo Amaral's book is going to be published in Britain?.

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  55. 55 I would love that to be true, no way will any book publisher in the UK have the guts to publish Mr Amaral's book. It will never be published here The Maccann's will never allow it. Its King Gerry and Queen Kate you know. Their coronation took place on 4th May 2007 in Portugal.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anon 58

    It doesn't have to be published in the UK, just distributed, though there is nothing illegal about publishing it.

    The McCanns are more disliked than they try to make out. People may not know about the death of Madeleine yet, but they sure do see these people as parents who left their kids alone and in harms way while they went out enjoying themselves resulting in the loss of one of them. They are also getting sick of the bleating and complaining and blaming of everybody but themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Anon 56

    Maybe they met up with them because they are polite, but that doesn't mean they weren't wary, and Madeleine had not disappeared then.

    When she did, it must have taken guts to go and tell, but the concern of what they had seen was too strong, especially the lady doctor. There is no way this was made up, it has the ring of truth about it, unlike so much of what the McCanns and their pals have come out with. Reading their statements is like listening to somebody trying to tiptoe their way through a verbal minefield.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Has Mr Amaral enquired about publishing his book in the us?
    Surely that would be possible.

    W.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Looking back, and not that far back, the McCanns completely misled the media about the help they were supposedly getting from the Government and various police authorities. All of which never came to anything. Always they were making out they were going to get a 'review'. It ended with their visit to Theresa May who sent them away, and they threw their little tantrum because she wouldn't do what they wanted.

    What on earth was all that about if not to take attention away from having to ask for the case to be reopened. Mention of a 'reopening' of the case is something that really gets them in a flurry. It is the last thing they want so they play a game of distraction.

    The same thing is going on with that book of theirs. Dr Amaral is now free to publish/distribute his book in the UK, so what do the McCanns do?

    They publish their own book hoping it will distract from his book of course. Always the game of distraction.

    Rather like the red herrings left around in this case. They also were a distraction and took attention away from things that should have been looked at.

    ReplyDelete
  60. @Anon 60
    Shame they didnt have the guts to say something before she "disappeared".....

    ReplyDelete
  61. Joana, where can I find the files about the Milenium employés.
    Somewhere somebody said that the McCanns took breakfast everyday at it and that Kate did not show up on May the 3rd.
    Who said she was sick on that morning?

    ReplyDelete
  62. I'm with 11: after almost four years we're no nearer. We've had almost four years of raised expectations and false hopes. There's a lot of speculation, theory and circumstancial evidence, but no one has the silver bullet to nail this case. Amaral tried his best but couldn't deliver

    ReplyDelete
  63. I'll tackle Mrs. Gaspar's statements one more time. Let's assume, as has been suggested, that the purpose of the Gaspar statements was to threaten the Tapas colleagues to keep quiet. Following the same reasoning as one of my previous comments I ask, if any of you were part of the Tapas gang and you aren't a paedophile would you really be threatened by such statements? Of course not, you would likely be angry and perhaps even take legal action. Now if you are a paedophile you would feel threatened and keep quiet even if what Mrs. Gaspar said is not true. The other question that arises is: would Mr. McCann put himself at risk in order to control the others, he was supposedly sitting across from Mr. Payne when he made those lewd gestures. If the purpose of Mrs. Gaspar's statements was to threaten the others, wouldn't it have been wiser not to include Mr. McCann in her story?

    Why is it that Mr. McCann and Mr. Payne don't address Mrs. Gaspar's statements? You would think that would have been the main passage in Mr. Amaral's book that they would object to.

    To summarize if you are not a paedophile you would not be threatened by Mrs. Gaspar's statements be they a factual account of what she perceived or a concocted story. If you are not a paedophile you would likely become angry and take legal action. However, if you are of that ilk then silence is golden.

    ReplyDelete
  64. #54,
    from Paulo Reis' blog:

    .."At around 8.45pm on Tuesday 1st May 2007, Miss Nejoua Chekeya, the Ocean Club’s busty Aerobics Instructor, held a “Quiz Night” and was later invited, allegedly by Gerald McCann, to join his table which she did sometime between 9.30pm and 9.50pm. She did not say how long she had remained with them, but she is not the sort of woman men would wish see to leave too quickly. Miss Chekeya stated that one dinner setting was unused and that she could not remember seeing Kate McCann."
    ...
    ..."Kate McCann’s mobile was next activated six times, in rapid fire, between 22.16 and 22.27, after she had returned to Apartment 5A after dinner. The antenna traffic proves that these calls were not made to any of the “Tapas 9”."
    ...
    ..."Mrs Fenn, the McCann’s neighbour, reported that Madeleine had cried for her father between 22.30 and 23.45. The evidence shows that Kate McCann was in Apartment 5A 14 minutes before Madeleine started crying. Tuesday 1st May 2007 is the only night (except, of course, for Thursday 3rd May 2007) that either of the McCanns or any of their friends made calls after dinner."

    It's well worth reading the entire post:

    http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2008/12/more-on-deleted-call-records.html

    ReplyDelete
  65. If Sr Amarels book could be purchased in our book shops and was publisised on chat shows and the media that would silence the mccanns because against police facts of what happened their abduction saga is a fairy story full of lies.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Dear Anonymous #64, you can find translated statements from the Millennium staff here: http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-60.html

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anon 63

    Perhaps they did, and nobody took it seriously, just like now.

    So why wasn't Payne made an arguido?

    ReplyDelete
  68. guerra at 66

    Exactly, and why would they want to draw attention to it. After all, there may be other people who would come forward with more information about this matter.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Disagree entirely 66. The Gaspars' statements are not in the mainstream media, only the knowledge of sites like this. They will have been advised that to challenge them would expose them to the world media glare

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anon 67

    So, if mummy was there anyway, the question has to be why was Madeleine screaming for daddy?

    ReplyDelete
  71. If there has been co cover up, as some bloggers suggest, why has there been a complete rejection to print Goncalo's book? Surely one publisher would have had the guts and foresight to print it! It just reeks of a cover up if you ask me! The press too, in my opinion, have been got at!

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  72. The Gaspar's statements were simply meant to be a warning to Gerry by the pharmaceutical company who had paid for the entire week to keep a low profile and not launch his business empire. They were later sent to Portugal by mistake.

    The company badly misjudged Gerry's guile, cunning and intelligence as many others have done. Gerry realised his best protection was to be bold, upfront and in your face. The statements have not, nor ever will be read in the UK mainstream media, as they are spurious and there would be an investigative link between the company and Police to which Gerry holds the key.

    People forget all Doctors need a licence for their careers

    ReplyDelete
  73. @66
    guerra

    I wonder after reading your post if you have considered the possibility of Madeleine being the victim of the 's' word. I don't like to mention this word or even think it could be possible. Or do you think it was accidental death - if death is considered to be the explanation for the disappearance of Madeleine.

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  74. A number of people have said that the Gaspar statements are not widely known. I have never found them in the mainstream media but only on blogs and websites. However, you have only to Google Madeleine Mccann with out any extra key words to find the statements. Just Madeleine's name will bring up madeleinemccann.org and the David Payne pedophile link is on the front page. Lots of people must have read these statements by now even without the mainstream media releasing them. The very fact that a blog sprang up "writing the wrongs" to answer all the questions about the McCann's dubious activities shows that the general public is turning on them. Many more people have read these statements than we think.

    The whole drug company connection would make a fascinating novel plot.

    ReplyDelete
  75. 75 Interesting post, thank you

    ReplyDelete
  76. @75
    justcurious

    It's possible the Gasper statements really were sent by mistake - but there is also the possibility they were put there, in between some papers in order to be found, by someone who may have known that it was intended that they were to be retained.

    There's many a slip betwixt cup and lip!

    ReplyDelete
  77. #75,
    "The Gaspar's statements" ... "They were later sent to Portugal by mistake."

    I also thought that it was the case, but, in the "cover letter" from DC Marshall to Ricardo Paiva, it is clearly stated:

    "Ricardo,
    Please find enclosed Arul and Katherina Gaspar’s statements, as requested."
    From this we see that the statements were known to the PJ, and the PJ requested the LP to sent them over to them. Also, in his book, Mr. Amaral does not mention any "by chance" finding, he talks about "rumours" about strange behaviour on a previous holiday and that:
    "It will only be after my removal from the investigation, in October 2007, that this statement will finally be sent to the Portuguese police."

    See,
    http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2011/01/gaspar-statements-cover-letter-from.html?utm_source=BP_recent


    You may have a point with the holiday being paid by a big pharmaceutical comp., it would explain the reluctance to release the Tapas9 finantial records to the PJ. It would show that none of them paid for the holiday, nothing would show in their credit/debit cards, someone else paid for the whole thing, and, the next step would be for the police to ask who had paid for it then, and why...?

    ReplyDelete
  78. #73,
    imagine Kate, upset, feeling that her husband had scorned her in front of the whole group, humilliated by her husband's attentions to the "busty" fitness instructor...she returns to the apartm. in a rage, feeling like "breaking all the dishes", and what does she find? Madeleine fully awake, seaking her mother's attention, wanting to play, wanting to be read a story, Kate is not up to it, tells her off, puts her to bed, but, Madeleine will not obey, throws a tantrum...Kate cannot control herself, and lets out the steam on Madeleine. Frightened, Madeleine calls for her daddy, but her daddy isn't there to protect her, he's in the Tapas, "drooling" over the lovely Miss Chekaia.
    It's one possible scenario...

    ReplyDelete
  79. Anon 76

    I would say the opposite regarding the book and the Gaspar statements.

    Everything is eventually revealed, and the Gaspar statements are no exception. They are in the public domain and there is no law against publishing them, whether in the mainstream media or anywhere else.

    Gerry McCann should not be trusting the mercurial UK mainstream media, even if he has received assurances from Clarrie, especially in this age of WikiLeaks when who knows what information is going to pop up.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Angelique, I too have thought of this quite a few times over the almost 4 years. However, the "P" word always comes back to replace that theory.

    w.

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  81. Justcurious.
    You may not feel it appropriate to reveal the name of the company, but if you are able to give any hint, I may be able to confirm my own opinion, which I do not intend to state at this time. Just to say, the most obvious choice is NOT the company I'm referring to.

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  82. I don't know if this true but on Martin Brunts blog on sky a couple of posters mentioned that Jim Gamble allegedly was in Cambodia asking madams where he could find young girls,now if this is true then i think the Madeleine case becomes clear,i believe the Gaspar statements,i believe the p word is behind everything,and for the protection that is afforded to the McCanns and their tapas friends must mean that this involves people in high places,maybe newspaper owners and editors,i did read that a very well known newspaper columnist is a paedophile,i bet you can guess who that might be??????.Also those photographs that the McCanns released on the internet on what would of been her eight birthday,the one where she was wearing make up,perhaps that was a warning to whoever had to be warned to keep quiet.And if we can see the blatant bullcrap that is the fairy tale abduction then so can the media with all their resources and contacts,they are as culpable as the McCanns,because not only do they stay quiet they drive the McCanns tale along.

    ReplyDelete
  83. It sounds like Kate McCann attributed the argument with Gerry to the night of the 2nd May because she wasn't pressed about the 1st May (quiz night), and the crying incident, and her being there when this was going on.

    Yet we must not forget that after midnight the day did change to the 2nd May, and this could be how she managed to get round this by saying it was the 2nd May that she had slept in the childrens' bedroom and not next to Gerry, without revealing the argument actually happened a few hours earlier on the evening of the 1st May, thus resulting in her leaving the Tapas early and going back to the apartment.

    Also, if O'Brien was sick next door on the evening of the 1st May, how come he didn't mention the crying that went on for so long. If he had said there wasn't any crying I personally would believe Mrs Fenn over any of the Tapas any time. She even phoned her friend to tell her about the crying at the time, so there was an independent witness that could have confirmed this. Was he too sick to go and see why the child was crying, the doors being unlocked and all and he could have got in. Though of course, he would have found Kate there already.

    We know the walls were thin enough to hear what was gong on next door so how come he stayed in his apartment.

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  84. Acontinuation of the artle from JSTICE FOR MADELEINE web site.


    And when the Express pulled all McCann related pages, only this:

    SORRY, UNABLE TO FIND THAT PAGE

    Anyway, to continue the story, a little later that day, the MF poster, cfb, quoted dumbfound on the MF main thread. It was at point that discussion on Chaplins commenced.


    Dumbfound’s Post and the PJ Report

    One of the things that has always intrigued the author about dumfound is what was his /her source? The dumfound post predates by some time any report in any of the Media. What rings through is that dumfound writes as if he /she has very close knowledge of the events recounted.

    Because of this, the author always placed some store in relation to dumfound’s date of Tuesday 1 May. Indeed, forum members may have noted that the author (alone amongst you all, he thinks) has advanced as a working hypothesis the theory that Madeline may have disappeared towards midnight, Tuesday 1 May, 2007, or shortly afterwards. He was encouraged in this by dumfound’s date.

    Dumfound it will be noted, reports two key things as happening on 1 May:

    1.Dining at Chaplins
    2.Crying for 1¼ hours (from 22:30 till 23:45) as recorded by Mrs Fenn
    Now, the PJ summary report, whilst not mentioning Chaplins, states that:

    PAMELA FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment occupied by the McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at about 23h45.

    What is interesting, astonishing even, is that the date and times exactly coincide with those given by dumfound . This leads to the thought as to whether dumfound was, as they say ‘a source close to the official police investigation’.


    Back to Chaplins

    Which leads one to ask whether Dumfound also right about ‘Dining at Chaplins’ on 1 May.

    Now it seems that Dumfound may not be literally correct. There are plenty of reports that the McCanns
    went to the tapas bar every day except the night of 28 May (although a now-pulled Daily Express article suggested except 28 and 29 May).

    For example, the Sun informs us:

    That first evening, Saturday, April 28, the group ate dinner at the Millennium Restaurant and Terrace, another Ocean Club property ten minutes away. For the rest of their stay they established a practice of giving the kids tea, playing with them for an hour and then putting them to bed in their
    apartments before going out to the nearby tapas bar for dinner.

    Nonetheless, the whole nature of a tapas meal is that is consists of a series, or collection, of snack-size portions. So, it’s certainly possible to snack twice, or to snack at Chaplins after drinking at the tapas, or
    for that matter to drink at Chaplins after snacking at the tapas.

    There remain, however, certain niggles about Chaplins. To focus on a single example, Sol is the newspaper that has undertaken investigative reporting, but there is no mention of Chaplins in its reports

    So, let us examine whether there is anything about Chaplins that might attract fun loving holiday makers towards the end of a Tuesday Night?

    Quiz Night

    Would a quiz night attract you? And if so, what night might quiz night be? Why, quiz night is Tuesday night!

    Chaplins inform us:

    “FUN” QUIZ NIGHT
    every Tuesday, start 10 pm

    But, is there any evidence that the tapas 9 enjoyed quizzes? Well, it seems they were not averse to them, for, in relation to the night of 3 May, Sol informs us

    An aerobic instructor from the resort entertains the dinner guests at Tapas with a ‘Quiz’. At 9.30 p.m. the game ends, and Gerry invites her to their table, where she stays for half an hour.

    Happy Hour

    Is there anything that might encourage late evening drinking at Chaplins? Well how about a ‘Happy Hour’

    ReplyDelete
  85. Spot on guerra at 66, some people are trying to spin the Gaspar statements, i believe the Gaspar statements are real, very real, the Gaspar statements are telling us a truth.

    The McCanns did not try and get Goncalo Amarals book "The Truth of the Lie" banned because he said he thought Madeleine maybe dead and this hindered the search, they wanted the book banned because he refered to the Gaspar statements in the book.

    The Tapas & MaCanns and others did all they could to prevent those Gaspar statements getting out in the UK, they failed.

    The "Truth of the Lie" will be coming to UK shores, Gaspar statements and all.

    Im not going to say the P word ,but imo this whole cover-up involves child sex abuse .

    ReplyDelete
  86. Angelique, Madeleine died in apartment 5A in Praia da Luz, Portugal. How she died one can only guess. The most probable causes of death are: being struck too hard by one of her parents, or complications due to a sedative. I don't believe the parent's would have gone to all this trouble to conceal the child's death if it was just an accidental fall. I fail to see how a child falling on its own and dying as a result of head trauma is going to ruin the parent's careers.

    What is troublesome about this case is:

    The parent's insisting almost from the beginning that their child was taken by a paedophile.

    I find it strange that you would allow a family friend, in this case Mr. Payne, to bathe your children.

    Why would the Gaspars, physicians themselves, find it necessary to go to the police and make such incredible depositions. In doing so did they not put themselves at risk of being ridiculed or even sued?

    The fact that the social worker Yvonne Martin sent an anonymous letter to the English police suggesting that they check the paedophile or child abuse registers to see if Mr. Payne was on the list.

    Your daughter is missing and you suspect that she was taken by a paedophile, why would you release a picture of your 3 year old daughter wearing make-up, why would you release a picture to the public which has the effect of portraying your daughter in a sexual manner.

    Angelique, I don't believe their daughter died as a direct result of sexual abuse but I cannot discount that she had been abused.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Is it possible that Kate left the table in a strop.....maybe justified if Gerry was flirting with the quiz lady, could kate have decided enough is enough and was going to return home (uk) at the earliest chance-maybe even stay with a friend of the family who lives in portugal until the flight back....so has she got back to the apt began to pack and collect the kids ready to leave the apt.
    Madeleine sensed the tension and began crying .....

    mojo

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  88. Just read "The Blacksmith,s Bureau",he seems to be very well informed in this debacle,his observations are brilliant IMO. He seems to think that Kate, during her time of interrogation had been "close" to some sort of confession ????? but there are no records of this on file ??
    Just why can,t the phone records of all those involved be "investigated?" as the bomber in the London July bombing phone records have been? and subsequently confirm his guilt !!!I,ll never understand that,or the non checks on their credit cards,but then,I,m not called Macaan!!!

    ReplyDelete
  89. "We were waiting for something to happen but didn’t in our worst nightmare think it would be this." (David Payne).

    Unfortunately Mr 'Pact of Silence' never gave an explanation why they were waiting for something te happen.
    I assume he doesn't mean a nice thing.

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  90. anon 81

    "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

    Angelo Del Montello

    ReplyDelete
  91. It may be irrelevant but credit cards could presumably be used to pay for certain kinds of pornography which records could reveal and the absence of would conceal.

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  92. 45, David Payne chooses not to sue the Gaspars because he does not want to attract the attention to that incident.
    And about protecting the McCanns, who knows the McCanns have gotten photos, videos that could incriminate him?
    I believe Gerry went back to England, short after the accident, in order to put those pictures in safety.
    He could need them later, to blackmail people.
    And I believe Madeline died on the 2nd, before dinner.
    After Mrs.Fenn complained to the manager, he must have complained to the McCanns.
    And Kate lost her temper.

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  93. Imho the death occurred on the 2nd of May and the cleanup began and the hurried alibi's started, the child was hidden in the wardrobe until Kate got the keys to the church and Maddie was hidden in the church as a ? safe haven.
    She was then cremated in Hoos's pet cemetary and the ashes returned to Rothley on one of there may visits home quite possibly the friends christening.. I really believe the focus should be on the missing Tapas who I think was a prominent man and was the extra lady tapas's partner.. so possibly very married..

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  94. On reading some of the comments here, I wonder if the authors have read the police files? Picking up on the last few comments alone:-


    @ Anonymous 85

    Maddie would have been 8 this year on 12th May.

    The make-up (blue eye-shadow) photo was released last year, around what would have been Maddie's 7th birthday.


    @ Anonymous 86

    O'Brien's apartment wasn't next door to the McCanns, it was 3 doors away! The Oldfields were next door to the McCanns, then there was an empty apartment between theirs and Tanner & O'Brien's.

    According to their statements, they had a full meal, with starters. (It's claimed that O'Brien ordered a steak for main course) so it wasn't a meal consisting of small dishes. (Incidentally, in a traditional tapas bar/restaurant, you can choose between 'tapas' which is a small/first-course size dish or 'Racion' which is the equivalent of a main course).


    @ Anonymous 87

    The Quiz Night was at the tapas bar on Tuesday 1st May. The dates in the Sol were incorrect. It wasn't at the tapas bar on May 3rd and neither was it at Chaplins on 1st May.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Anon. 54

    I almost hope it was Kate that was crying that night (maybe Maddie, Maddie). It would only show that she deeply cared and loved Madeleine, but for me it is still difficult to imagine Kate so upset and crying aloud so hard that Mrs Fenn was able to hear it. And could her crying really sound like little child was crying (?). We don`t know for sure, she always seems to control herself really well, but I don`t think so.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Two little words: Organ trafficking.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Aint you sick to the brim chewing and re-chewing the same stuff over and over again since the last 4 years???
    We knoiw they are involved from A to Z.
    Lots of words and very little ACTION and it is great time to DO something and not behind a computer screen.
    If you really want justice for Madeleine organize a PROTEST,a massive mass protest in both countries,at the embassies,at the home office,at the very mccanns doorstep,especially.
    That or let Madeleine REST IN PEACE

    ReplyDelete
  98. When Kate said Madeleine asked at breakfast 'why didn't you come last night etc..' IMO Madeleine was already dead that morning and Kate said that to make it look like Madeleine was still alive, otherwise why say it...

    ReplyDelete
  99. I dont believe Madeleine ever said "why did you not come when..."etc.
    This story is made up, to "prove"she was still alive on Thursday morning.
    She wasn't.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Anon 91:

    As for Blacksmith's article,I personally found it condescending cr*p from someone who wants us to believe that he is omniscient and omnipresent. According to his assumptions, the lawyer Caplan actually spoke to the Public Prosecutor and showed him the error of his ways and that the case against the McCanns was nonexistent. This is an insult of the Portuguese judicial system from someone who obviously doesn't understand how it works. No Portuguese lawyer would talk in private with a procurador much less an English one!!! He still insists that Gonçalo Amaral was the lead detective when this concept does not even exist in the PJ and when it is the judge who oversees any criminal investigation. He obviously still does not understand how the police work here either.

    His contemptible insinutations against Gonçalo Amaral also show that he is far from being objective. I haven't forgotten how he criticised GA's lawyers practically implying that they were incompetent. We now see the result of their work with the overturning of the book ban. Let us also not forget that the injuction was rejected not one time but twice before being accepted by that judge in September 2009. Also, GA is not some maniac hell bent on going after the McCanns, all he wants is justice. In fact, the McCanns are the ones who want to destroy anyone who questions them.
    Caroline

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  101. I suppose that the Ocean Club's Tapas Bar is/was nothing like the conventional spanish tapas place, it was only named that way.
    About Chaplin's, I think it offered a quizz night regularly, so, one might have been held there on the 1st May. Which one was attended by the McCanns and friends, that's another story...some advocate the theory that they never ate at the Tapas, not even once...

    See here:

    http://www.luzholiday.com/Portugal10.htm#Chaplins

    "Quiz night every Tuesday at 22.00 (seasonal). Be sure to say hello to Analise when you visit."

    The 1st May 2007 was a Tuesday, so it seems there was a quiz night in Chaplin's, as usual, and also one in the Tapas Bar. Why couldn't there be several quiz nights in different restaurants/bars on the same night? The fierce competition in the food business...

    By the way, in the O.Club's website there is no mention of the Tapas bar in their list of services offered, there are some photos of what I think is the Millenium, which is now reffered to as the "Mill"in several tourism sites.

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  102. You can tell we have had nothing new for a few weeks, by the amount of comments here, I love it when we have new stuff, but what I will love the most is the day I see on this blog, Maccann case to reopen. Keep up the Good Work keep up the pressure. You are all stars.

    Mary Liverpool UK

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  103. The Gaspars statements were arranged to try and intimidate Gerry into keeping a low profile.

    It is not a coincidence that these statements were made to the Leicestershire police at the same time 15.30, 16th May as the launch of Gerry’s business empire was taking place at the football stadium less than 5 miles away.

    Gerry called the pharmaceutical companies bluff and the farce began to roll. Read the Gaspars statements, they are carefully crafted to suggest but not accuse. All…… “I think”, “I’m not sure”, “I imagined”, “I never distrusted Dave”, “I cannot remember”, “could have been in Leicester or Majorca”, “not sure”, etc., etc.

    No substance at all and if they were true, what a disgusting woman Mrs Gaspar is. She was perfectly content for Payne according to her a man with paedophile tendencies, to bathe the other kids but didn’t trust him bathing her child without a chaperone.

    So why let him, what kind of caring Doctor are you?

    The Gaspars spent time with Kate and Gerry shortly before Portugal but there is no phone call at all between the Macs and the Gaspars to offer support in their time of need. Do people not find this odd? The Gaspars statements are making us look away from who paid for the holiday and it seems to be working.

    The Gaspars remember need a licence to practice and therefore are easy to control.

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  104. Caroline 102

    Well said.

    I think there are some very sophisticated people posting as either 'objective', or anti McCann, who are really pro McCann. Always, always, with one intent in mind, to undermine any case that might be brought against the McCanns, whether it is to do with the Smith sighting, the Gaspar statements, DNA evidence, the dogs, or even the evidence of Mrs Fenn. All these things, the McCanns would love to have dismissed and never mentioned again.

    Dr Amaral included the information he did in his book about these aspect of the case to inform us, not for us to be dismissing them as irrelevant. He knows what he is doing.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Jilly 97

    Thanks for pointing that out about the apartments and it was the Oldfield's who were next door.

    So which of the men was sick that night then?

    Also, if there was really checking going on every half hour, or even every hour, how come none of these people checking mentioned the crying from the McCanns apartment on the 1st May which went on for well over an hour.

    The trouble with this case is that all the main attention has been concentrated on the night Madeleine was said to have disappeared, when if Madeleine had really died on one of the other nights the questioning for those nights was not thorough enough. It would have been a very clever ploy though to focus everybody's attention to a completely different night.

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  106. Anon 87

    Interesting.

    I can remember on the 3As when anybody mentioned Chaplins it was like a red rag to a bull, the people that would post refuting it. Clearly something that was not a popular subject to certain people.

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  107. Why would Gerry McCann say on the bus video when he also said the F word in front of the little children 'I am not here to enjoy myself'? He looked and sounded bad tempered.

    He was going on holiday, the weather was not bad, he had time to spend with his family and friends. He could relax once the kids were in the creche, which was most of the time. So what was his problem?

    Sounds like something was amiss from the get go.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Colorectal cancer screening with odour material by
    canine scent detection
    http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2011/01/17/gut.2010.218305.full.pdf
    "Ask the dogs, Gerry"

    ReplyDelete
  109. In Payne's statement, besides mentioning there had been something wrong with the fridge in the McCanns apartment, he also said there was something he wanted to say about the disappearance of Madeleine, yet he wanted to say it off record and not for it to be included in his statement.

    Being as the PJ were not there at the time, was this information he wanted to give ever passed on to them? Surely, this could be very important and may hold the answer to what happened. Is it in some file somewhere with the LP? They only sent on the Gaspar statements when requested, so do the PJ have to also request this?

    ReplyDelete
  110. Caroline:re your very interesting post 102;I have just put down my well thumbed dictionary ,as without it I,m ashamed to say ,I probably wouldn,t have understood it all,but as a daily "visitor" to Joana,s site I look forward to reading all the like-minded views in our search for the either intentionlly "dropped clue",or a known fact,that will give us the "key to open Pandora,s Box"-which one of "their" friends will "break" and get justice for Madeline? Also ,poster 85,I really haven,t a clue which newspaper reporter you are alluding to ?????

    ReplyDelete
  111. @Anon 100 & 101

    I totally agree with you both
    How could they possibly leave the children alone again after poor little Madeleine "said this"???How could any parents do this?
    No.I dont believe this story,their foul story

    @Caroline 102
    I agree with you too.I never liked blacksmith"s articles.They are far too ambiguous.

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  112. I think Caroline 102 is right to question Blacksmith's assumptions. Although he works in Portugal, I believe, he may not be as familiar with the system there as he implies.

    ReplyDelete
  113. 105 - I totally agree with you about the Gaspars, their statements never rang true all this stuff about I cannot be sure and then after saying what Payne said the rest of the group were silent...what a load of old rubbish, and still socialising with these people at a later date...these statements are just more clutter to divert attention from Kate and Gerry and to keep Payne in line.
    The Gaspars are friends of the mccanns.
    Well done Astro there is definitely much food for thought here.

    ReplyDelete
  114. @89
    guerra

    Thank you for your reply.

    The possible reason they mentioned abduction by paedophile is if a body was found before they had time to dispose.

    Payne bathing the children would only be acceptable if you are of the same persuasion.

    Gaspers must have known the risk - puts their careers at risk for various reasons.

    Yvonne Martin had no reason to point finger at Payne other than to help the McCanns - also career risk involved.

    If 'one' is of a certain persuasion 'one' would see nothing at all wrong with picture/s of one's daughter with eye shadow and another posing in an adult way.

    I agree with your opinion as regards abuse.

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  115. Justcurious 105. i hope you dont mind ,but i think your barking up the wrong tree.

    As 106 says ,which to me is spot on ,

    "I think there are some very sophisticated people posting as either 'objective', or anti McCann, who are really pro McCann. Always, always, with one intent in mind, to undermine any case that might be brought against the McCanns, whether it is to do with the Smith sighting, the Gaspar statements, DNA evidence, the dogs, or even the evidence of Mrs Fenn. All these things, the McCanns would love to have dismissed and never mentioned again"

    What the Gaspars witnessed imo were sexual gestures directed at children, on two occasions maybe three.

    Yvonne Warren Martin wrote a letter to Leicester police, her main aim in writing this letter was for them to check paedophile/child abuse registers for anything relating to David Payne,

    Remember there was a time when Goncalo Amaral was not permitted to talk about the case, his wife the beautiful Sofia spoke for him, she directed a quote at the MaCanns it went like this "we would not invite paedophileS into our circle of friends" what a strange thing to say .

    Kate & Gerry MaCann both have a file on the CATS child abuse system, yes a child abuse system.

    David Payne allegedly phoned the Crime Directorate/child abuse investigation team on the 4th May 2007 at 23;13;47 for 100 seconds and when questioned about this call by Leicester police tried to deny he made the call ,eventually he was forced to admit he did .

    Im no detective, but in my opinion i think i know why Madeleines body was disposed of .

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  116. "101" totally 100% agree with you, IMO the child died before the said date and everything is a smpke screen and a diversion. The previous days should be investigated with vigour, as I believe this would blow the lid off the whole thing, and the mcscumms know this

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  117. #106

    Just because one questions statements, does not make one a pro McCann, and it does not make Dr Amaral infallible.

    Parts of the evidence is very strong and parts clearly rubbish.

    I firmly believe the McCann’s are world-class liars and fraudsters and know exactly the fate that befell their daughter but I cannot believe the Gaspar’s statements are genuine.

    Dr Amaral himself admits he believed unreliable un-substantiated tittle-tattle regarding the Gaspars statements, not a good thing to do, but this does not detract from his courage and tenacity into a cover up beyond most peoples understanding.

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  118. Anon 60

    I totally agree with you, there is nothings strange about the Gaspars meeting up with the McCanns when they did. First of all, it was not the McCanns they said made the lewd remarks, it was David Payne. Secondly, any normal person witnessing such a passing remark, after any initial uncomfortable reaction would somehow during time reason that they must have either misunderstood something or thinking that maybe it wasn't after all an insinuation of what they initially took it to be. After all, they saw nothing to indicate some sort of child molesting taking place. Equally logically when Madeleine disappeared it would have been the first thing that sprung to their minds again. Therefore as any normal responsible person would do in such circumstances, they contacted the police about what they saw and overheard during that holiday in Mallorca. I don't find anything suspicious or strange in their behavior, nor do i think that anybody would consider to make such a statement just to get attention on themselves in a case they knew they would themselves become the target of observation of the media. There is just no way anyone would do that kind of thing to their own life, even IF they would be malicious and warped enough to make false allegations of another person that was virtually a stranger to them, and therefore they could not possibly have any reason to try and tarnish that persons reputation. I simply find that the Gaspars did the right and responsible thing any DECENT person would do in such circumstances.
    I do not understand AT ALL why someone on these amature investigation blogs would not find the Gaspars particular statement to be anything but credible, and thereby totally overlooking the fact that Madeleines possible death and disappearence may very well be connected to a peadophile ring as the McCanns themselves initially stated themselves. Just look at it from this angle, the peadophile ring constitutes of themselves and/or their ring of friends. we would have heard stranger stories this last decade right? What was the REASON for David Payne to visit Kate whilst Gerry was at the tenniscourt and why are Paynes and Kates statements about that meeting so conflicting??

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  119. 85

    Maybe you mean this article about Gamble in Cambodia.

    http://www.policeone.com/international/articles/2896600-John-Walsh-investigates-Cambodia-sex-trafficking/

    ReplyDelete
  120. IS A PICTURE WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS?

    I am not so sure...what about if you are a neurotic type that tends to feel guilty for anything that happens, is about to happen or did not happen at all? Think Woody Allen... or take a friend of mine - Mario Totta. Whenever he goes into a shopping center, a supermarket... the security heavies start to tail him. I wondered why... well, I knew why but... I wanted him to hear it from the horses' mouth so one day I flashed my press card at a security rhino right behind us and asked him what made my friend look so suspicious (I was with Mario on this occasion...) "I don't know...he doesn't look right, does he? Has he been to prison? Been a victim of something?". "No!" I protested! "My friend is the most honest person you can think of!". "That's it, then!", The security man said. "That is NOT normal, is it?"

    So much for bed time stories...

    The very first time I looked at the McCanns' picture I thought: "Hmmm. The father did it!" Why should I think that? Just an hunch. Could it have been his poker face? May be...but Kate looks a bit of a Gioconda too and...oh! By the way... I live in London and I can tell you most native middle class British people looked pretty robotic to me at first until I got used to them. I felt at times I was in another solar system altogether and I dearly missed the Earth...sorry...I drift...

    I don't think face reading is the best avenue to confirm the McCanns' guilt. Eddie "The Dog", contradictions here and there, false witnessing, etc. yes... but I agree, they do give the impression of trying to hide something, don't they? Whether this is because of the minor/major pecadillo of abandoning their children to their fate or something more sinister, we might never know...

    Anyway. This case is now consigned to history. We can all now go home and stop beating our brains out.

    A. Reader

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  121. I seriously hope one day when Madeleine funds run dry we'll find the truth. Perhaps one of the other (possibly also neglected kids) will find and tell the story.

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  122. Just a thought but do the Gaspars actually exist are they real people or was their statement just slipped into the police files for someone to find.....never seen them on TV or heard another word from them.

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  123. guerra 89
    "... Madeleine died in apartment 5A in Praia da Luz, Portugal. How she died one can only guess. The most probable causes of death are: being struck too hard by one of her parents, or complications due to a sedative. I don't believe the parent's would have gone to all this trouble to conceal the child's death if it was just an accidental fall. I fail to see how a child falling on its own and dying as a result of head trauma is going to ruin the parent's careers. What is troublesome about this case is: The parent's insisting almost from the beginning that their child was taken by a paedophile.

    One possible explanation for both the concealment of the death, and then of the body, is to avoid a post mortem examination. Perhaps the original suggestion of Pae**** was made in case the body was found in those early days, and such an examination was made.
    Horrible thought, but sadly it seems to fit some of the facts

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  124. Jimuck @118
    Great post, you wouldn't use the Gaspers to divert with such a horendous statement Im sure they could have diverted attention from the Mcs in a less suttle way, then using "P" or sexual innuendos.

    The McCs for some reason could't let Maddies body found, if it was an accident they could have just said they had found her dead, remember they were quiet happy to let us all know they left their children to go drinking, so imo they would have admitted to this "IF" it had been an accident.
    Like you I have my own conclusion as to why Maddy had to be well hidden.

    Lilly

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  125. I've read almost every theory that tries to discredit any evidence that is inconvenient for the McCanns and surprisingly these theories are proposed by those who claim that the McCanns are guilty. I have some idea what the pharmaceutical theory might be, but just to be certain why doesn't someone please enlighten me.

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  126. @118
    I agree entirely with your post, Yvonne Martin knew something was a miss.
    The Amarals knew also, Goncalo must have told his wife what he knew about Payne and Gerry McCann, if this was all rubbish to divert, Amaral would have known this, and Sophia would not have been speaking about it either.

    Gaspers Statement is genuine, to serious for it not to be.

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  127. Haha!! you wish A Reader you wish.

    A.Typist.

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  128. You go home if you like A Reader at 122 but don't speak for the rest of us.

    It is not over. The case has not yet been solved, and there are still people who know a lot more about this than any of the rest of us who also want the case reopened, which is still possible.

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  129. This case is not consigned to history and the investigation into the fund is yet to come. Too many people have been hurt seriously by Team McCann for it to end without justice for them, from individuals to insulted sovereign states. The legal investigation has been put on hold for now, but the parents depend on public interest to feed their machine, but as it lurches from PR disaster to PR disaster, the cracks in it are there for all to see, and lapped up by the sensational press of course, it's bit like politics, and look what happened to Brown, another one who tried to improve his image. There is much more to come, and more evidence behind the scenes. Homicide investigations are never closed

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  130. The Gaspars statements are genuine IMO. Firstly the Gaspars are not involved or implicated in the child's disappearence. Secondly they have no personal reason to make a false police statement which is a serious offence. Thirdly, the statement is not in complimentary or the McCann and introduces suspicion of wrongdoing. There was an attempt for the British police to sit on the statement when the McCanns were being featherbedded. Clear proof the statement is genuine.

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  131. I too haver doubts about the Gaspers, statement, I do believe Mr Amarals version of events, that night are true. The Maccanns are expert liars, will this case be ever reopened will the pair ever face justice who knows, they are experts at avoiding justice a very slippery pair. Brown has long gone, Blair has long gone, Smith has long gone, Madelaine has long gone, What is the hold up now if its money for the pair that helps, them evade justice well they seem to have that for the rest of their life. Portugal are not interested in this case the UK have lost interest in it. So just what is left, not very much I fear.

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  132. I too have read all available translations and original English language statements and several have an unmistakeable ring of truth,specifically,Mr and Mrs Gasper, Mrs Fenn and all those of the Smith family plus Ges Wilkins. No over embellishment,no reinforcing each other, if anything,careful restrained.N
    ot posing to camera,not inviting intrusion and not being intimidated by private investigators or Brian Kennedy,just honest co-operative witnesses.
    The CATS entry is however,a red herring, it was opened under the title of the Leics Polies side of the investigation which was operation TASK ,it was not opened prior to the child,s disappearance but as a result of it,absolutely standard admin procedure in every case of a missing child just incase it turns out that abuse of any nature is subsequently found to have been involved. The latter has been pointed out on inumerable occaision. There is plenty of evidence to go on without the need to invent myths and to persist in doing so only gives amunition to the cult followers.

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  133. If those commenting on here are the most interested and informed about the case, it is no wonder the McCanns have got away with the cover up so far.

    Without keeping to written facts, you have nothing so why feel the need to make it up. The Gaspars statements are not coherent and wishing will not make them so.

    "On the second occasion Katherine Gaspar paid more attention but could not even remember whether she was in Majorca or England when the gesture was made".

    Somebody wrote what the Gaspars witnessed were sexual gestures on two occasions maybe three, where is your evidence of the third? there is none so why write it.

    Is it to divert attention continually away from who paid for the holiday and why?

    # 121

    You state nobody would do such a thing like make false allegations. Where have you been, read the Police statements, that is exactly what Fiona Payne did to Robert Murat.

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  134. Well said Caroline @102 totally agree with you.

    Well said anon @106.

    Anon @122 (FACS )A Scientifically Validated Instrument. Comprende?

    A.Dubliner.

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  135. @122

    So many nicely flowing words just to tell us to go home, that there is nothing to see? If your only method of analysing a case is to look at the faces I do not wonder that you have not come to conclusions yet.

    For possibly the first time in history the public (yes that does include you) are in the possession of the case files. Had you only read the rogatory letters of request and their responses you would be spinning in circles due to the blatant twisting and outright denial of former statements to paint a coherent picture they will never succeed in. These lies would be grounds enough to haul them all in again and charge them with abetment.

    And the book will make it worse.

    You should have returned your press card a long time ago if that is your summing up of the current case.

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  136. Posts 102 and 106, I wholeheartedly agree with you. "Dark forces" indeed operate in the vein you so describe.

    ShuBob

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  137. 121 Why not just ask- Excuse me, did you say what I thought you did?- Was Mrs G too intimidated to check, like any normal mother would. If so, why meet up with them again? They'd be off my Xmas card list.

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  138. A.Reader 122
    :c
    Lets offer the alternative to people can go home or....? make a mass protest in both countries.
    By the way how is DA book going to end? Something like :To Be Continued?

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  139. I recieved a letter today from my conservative mp in reply to an email i sent him he replied"There is not enough necessary EVIDENCE at present to arrest anyone,but when other evidence emerges then the British government would do all it could to ensure the PP have the resources they need to solve this case"A positive step i think.

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  140. Fund Raising Dinner for Madeleine McCann being held in the Crypt. It is almost four years since the little girl went missing from the family's apartment in the Algarve region of Portugal and we continue to remember the family in our prayers at the Cathedral.

    Claire Hanlon Assistant to the Dean
    From the Newsletter of the Metropoiltan Cathderal of Christ The King Liverpool.

    I am disgusted by this Mary Liverpool UK

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  141. I continue believing that Maddie died the night before.
    The fact that David Payne did not go checking on the children on the 3rd, and that he took his monitor to the restaurant, could only mean that he perhaps realised that he was known in England, at least at the institution where Yvonne Martin worked,and he needed to innocent himself.
    He probably has nothing to do with Maddy's death.
    May the 1st the child cried for more than an hour.
    May the 2nd Mrs. Fenn seems to have reported the incident to the O.Club.
    The McCanns probably heard of the incident in the afternoon or in the morning.
    And Kate lost her temper at the end of the day of the 2nd, before her children went to bed, all beds made up by the cleaning lady, that morning.
    I think Maddy was already dead before 7.30pm, May the 2nd.

    Though it is strange she was not wearing her pyjamas'trousers.

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  142. I've wondered, would a forensic lab misrepresent or withhold evidence, could this actually happen? Yes it can.

    http://standdown.typepad.com/weblog/2010/08/misoncduct-at-the-north-carolina-sbi-forensic-lab.html

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  143. "Just Listen", a brilliant article from Dr. Martin Roberts at Mccannfiles

    ReplyDelete
  144. Then the Blacksmith bureau got angry and reacts? It's true that most of his information sources were G.A and PJ? Mais um que traiu G.A ou mais um charlatao na lista que vai crescendo dos que usam a desgraca de uma crianca para se evidenciarem? Ver para crer...
    Nao deixa de ser interessante a mensagem que pretende passar- os comentadores portugueses serem os "maus da fita".
    Pelos vistos quem comentou acertou na "mouche" ao suspeitar de algumas intencoes.
    Uma mensagem para os Mccann- Nada que nao e genuino dura para sempre. A vossa verdade so e genuina se cair no campo das mentiras. Nao durara para sempre, por mais estrategias e "peoes" que arranjem dentro do vosso xadrez. O tabuleiro vai-se gastando e os peoes vao caindo.
    Se e verdade que G.A. foi realmente a fonte de alguma informacao, vai ter de comecar a usar um repelente contra oportunistas. Ha azar a mais no meio da desgraca.

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  145. Anon122

    Do you really believe the case is "History"- ? Wishful Mccann thinking

    It is said that "As long as one person remembers you, you're never really gone"-

    I will not forget Maddie- nor will some others here. One day in one form or another justice will be done.

    Whether we ever know the truth is another matter. It is an undeniable, incontrovertible fact that the Mccanns are guilty of perverting the course of justice and for this they should pay.

    If the fraud, concealment of death and all the rest can be brought home to them so much the better.

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  146. Anon 122-

    Case is history?- wishful Mccann thinking.

    "As long as one person remembers you, you're never really gone"

    Maddie will be with us until they are brought to justice- I am not alone in this resolution.

    The lengths that hey and their trogs will go to to supress ANY attempt to promulgate anything but the Mccann approved version of events shows they still fear.

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  147. Anon 87

    As regards Chaplins and whether or not the Tapas friends went there after the Tapas, that was one place there might still be photos available which were taken on the nights in question.

    The McCanns were anxious to get hold of photos that were taken during that holiday which might have included Madeleine (or maybe not, like when she should have been in the photos but wasn't? and were these photos ever passed on to the PJ?), but they could hardly request photos from Chaplins to be given them being as how they were never supposed to have been there in the first place.

    As the quiz at the Tapas ended at 9.30pm, and if Kate had then left due to an argument and presumably gone back to the apartment, that is quite some time before a quarter to midnight when Mrs Fenn heard somebody coming back downstairs. Sounds like there was plenty of time for them to have gone to Chaplins. People were on holiday, and when they are Clubbing it is one of the main places they take the photos. So where are the photos?

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  148. Poster Anon 122

    So the case is history? Mccann wishful thinking.

    As long as one person remembers you, you're never really gone.

    Maddie will be with us until they are brought to justice.

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  149. 122 A. Reader

    Interesting post, agree that face reading is not the best avenue to confirm the McCanns' guilt. IMO the interesting thing about 'face language' is Gerry's expression/reaction when Kate is telling something and to a less extent Kate's expression/reaction when Gerry is telling something. To me that is the distinguish between parents like the McCanns and parents of missing children like those of Mirco Schlitter for example. They do not control each other, there's is (was) a missing child on their mind.

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  150. OPERATION ORE EXPOSED
    "As a direct consequence of the statements and decisions of Jim Gamble and associated people, the innocent were incriminated, guilt was overstated, lives were endangered or lost, public morals were corrupted and justice was denied."

    http://tinyurl.com/6ffodyu

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  151. Dear All

    The Jo Yeates murder case was one I took an interest in, I wrote several posts on it.

    http://glasgowunihumanrights.blogspot.com/search/label/Jo%20Yeates

    I correctly said 13 days before the arrest of the suspect Vincent Tabak that the key to solving the case lay back at the flat and the surrounding area.

    Vincent Tabak lived next door.

    The key to the Madeliene McCann case lies in the files. I believe it is possible to construct how she died.

    With only limited information about Jo Yeates in the public domain, I was able to figure out that the Police need look no further than the building.

    Have a read of what I wrote. The evidence is there, you just have to link it all up.

    Yours sincerely

    George Laird
    The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

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  152. PeterMac at 127

    I had never thought about that before. Yes, you make a good point there, why did Gerry mention about a paedophile? Was it in case Madeleine was found and they wanted to shift whatever had really happened to her away from the apartment and them and their circle of friends. The very people who had access to the children and knew when those children would be alone. The blame would have to be shifted onto some chance abductor who just happened by at the right 'moment' and took Madeleine off to his paedophile lair, after which he hid her on the beach or wherever else she might have been discovered early on.

    It hardly bears thinking about, yet why did Gerry mention this in the first place? Why couldn't she have just been said to have wandered off? Obviously because if she was found, whatever she had died from would have shown that she didn't.

    The case should definitely have changed to a murder investigation once those dogs had alerted in the apartment, and after the Gaspar statements most definitely it should be reopened as such. Plus, the Tapas friends be made arguidos as well.

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  153. justcurious 121

    Where does it say that Dr Amaral believed tittle tattle about the Gaspar statements? I would be interested to read that.

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  154. Hi justcurious 137,you said "Somebody wrote what the Gaspars witnessed were sexual gestures on two occasions maybe three, where is your evidence of the third? there is none so why write it.

    Oh yes there is "justcurious" poster 137, occasion number three, the Greek holiday Chapter 9 The Truth of the Lie, written by Goncalo Amaral

    This witness statement from the couple, S.G. and K.G., is taken by the English police on May 16th, thirteen days after Madeleine's disappearance. That information, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portuguese police. When the Portuguese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements -, they tell the English police, who, even at this point, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject.

    A possible third occasion as i said.

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  155. Mary at 144

    Well, I have heard everything now. A dinner in the crypt to raise funds. Who would want to eat a dinner in a crypt? I am feeling quite sick at the thought. That is besides doing it to obtain yet more money for the McCanns. Who is behind this madness?

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  156. Hi Pearl, you talk about Operation Task the British end of the investigation.

    From: DC443 J.N. HUGHES
    To: SIO, Operation Task
    Department: Main Crime Unit
    Date: 16th May 2008
    Refª
    Subject: Background Information- Gerald McCANN

    A search of the local section of the child abuse shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system. A consultation with the DC Soand from the department in question confirms that this is just a file reference, but as a complement to Operation Task system for the purpose of reference.

    You can believe it or not, but the SIO, Operation Task, Main Crime Unit is where all the UK's paedophile data files from Operation Ore are kept.

    Pearl,you said relating to the CATS child abuse file on Kate & Gerry MaCann "it was not opened prior to the child,s disappearance but as a result of it, Pearl not questioning you ,but just interested how you know this.

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  157. George at 155

    Have read what you have written about the Joanne Yeates case. Good insight which makes sense. Obviously, we don't know if they have the right man, and I can't imagine why he would have killed Jo at all. It is going to be very interesting to see what the case is against him when it comes to trial as he is pleading not guilty.

    As regards the case files which you believe contain the key to what happened to Madeleine, these Files have been discussed many times. Gerry McCann said that confusion is best, and it would seem like this case is full of it. How to cut through it though, that is the question.

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  158. As far as I uderstood, the McCanns were taking breakfast at the Millenium.
    The name of this restaurant represents very well the amount of time this case will take.

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  159. Did any of you write Wikileaks?
    High time!

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  160. Anon 143
    Fund raising dinner inthe crypt, so 2 million book advance now is not enough. The Mcs are sick people overcome with reed, need loads of money to pay Carter ruck, must be thousands by now. Maybe they may think this will heal little Maddies pain. Lets hope some unexpected spirit makes an appearance. No more news of latest sighting, taken by arabs I see. Be careful what you wish for gerry,evry time you speak your lies are evident.

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  161. To me it is obvious that the police did not release the complete files.
    The statement of the cleaner of 5A, about May the second, could not be that short.
    Being police, I would have asked about eventual signs of breakfast, on the table or in the kitchen,clothes the parents were wearing,toys, position of the sofa(close to the wall?), curtains,were the parents normal, nervous,bad humored, what about the bathroom, etc, etc.
    I believe that there is a lot, a lot that a very few investigators know and they are waiting for their chance.
    And they will get it.

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  162. Gerry coca (com cedilha) a cabeca sempre que a pergunta e acutilante. Um gesto tipico de quem fica incomodado com a pergunta e debita uma mentira, como resposta.
    Depois vem as maos dadas com Kate. Nem os namorados no alvor da paixao dao entrevistas sob este signo. E tudo uma farsa programada para passar uma imagem que esta longe da realidade.
    E o olhar controlador de Gerry sobre Kate ou o desta a pedir ajuda ou consentimento sempre que um facto e questionado.
    Quando as "camaras se apagam" deve haver discussao grossa a provar como tudo e fabricado, falso, colado por uma equipa habituada a treinar politicos para ludibriarem o eleitorado.
    Um dia os jornalistas que presenciaram estas discussoes hao-de traze-las a luz do dia.

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  163. Anon 165

    Yes, that may be right as most of the File has not been released yet. No wonder the McCanns want to get their hands on it to see what else may have been said they don't know about and they can send somebody then to go 'have a word with them' just like they have other people.

    Didn't Dr Amaral also say that THE MCCANNS KNOW HE KNOWS! One day maybe he will be free to tell us all he knows. Also, what was that STAND ALONE EVIDENCE that was mentioned?

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  164. # Jimuck 158

    There were no similar circumstances regarding the Paynes and McCanns in Greece, as they were never in Greece together (see Police statements)

    They, the PJ, obtained no reliable witness statements.

    How could they, there can be no witnesses to an event that never took place. Unsubstantiated tittle-tattle.

    They, the PJ, asked the Leicester Police what do you know about a Greek holiday between the McCanns and Paynes, the Leicester Police reply “absolutely nothing they were never in Greece together”.

    Whilst you are looking at David, the spotlight is off Fiona and that suits the McCann’s just fine.

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  165. Many of the people involved are connected to one another; The ocean club is not owned by Mark Warner but by the Symington family to whom Robert Murat is related.
    Rupert Symingting attended Oxford University with David Milliband and other high ranking MPs.
    Clarence Mitchell took on the post of PR representative for mccanns for his own personal ambition, its all about PR.
    It was reported in Portuguese newspapers that Murat and Gerry were friends and had campaigned together for the labour party in Leicester long before 2007.
    Why were Kate and Gerry allowed to solicite funds from the public for their limited company when they knew their daughter was already dead.
    These people should all be re-investigated and the PR nonsense that is Kate and Gerry mccann stopped.

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  166. I am sorry to see that Blacksmith has removed his posts from the blog.
    He may not have always agreed with Amaral, but he had interesting things to say.
    It is always interesting to hear other points of view even when they question what we take to be correct. No one is infallible.

    Hysteria will not help find the truth of what happened to Madeliene.

    Algarveisfedup

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  167. I hope so, No. 165, I really do. It's that sort of sane thinking I need to hang on to.

    Sheila

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  168. I have just read an article in the express newspaper about a woman who has been cautioned by the police for leaving her fourteen year old son to look after her three year old son,the police said the mother was cautioned for quote"committing an act of cruelty on a child or young person"unquote, in the same article the NSPCC advises that no child under fourteen should be left alone,this mother has been suspended from her job since september 09 because the caution was revealed under criminal bureau checks,now what a difference in treatment with this woman from the McCanns,the police's attitude to this woman is so different from the leicestershire police to the McCanns,what is it about those pair that allows them to get away with"committing an act of cruelty" on three young children.One woman is treated like a lepor,the McCanns are feted and are allowed to do and say anything they want with impunity.

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  169. Lynn here ,poster 91!!!!!I am ,like poster 170,really sad to see Blacksmith is removing his blog,hope everyone who contributed to his decision will not get any satisfaction because of it. I heard today of a woman "investigated" by police for leaving her 14 year old son "baby-sitting" his 3 year old brother whilst she went to the shops ,pity they haven,t spent as much time on 3 babies left with NO-ONE babysitting !!!!!.

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  170. Hi justcurious, 168 you asked me for the third occasion where it was alleged that similar events to what the Gaspars witnessed where David Payne made provocative gestures

    Well if you read Chapter 9 The Truth of the Lie the Portuguese investigators learn about SIMILAR EVENTS to what was witnessed by the Gaspars ,but this time is was on a Greek holiday, this is the third occasion you asked me for , Payne twice ,then someone on the Greek holiday adds up to three.

    So there was someone on the Greek holiday allegedly doing similar provocative gestures as to what was witnessed on the Majorcan holiday

    What i would like to know ,who provided the Portuguese investigators with this information about the Greek holiday and also was it David Payne again making those alleged gestures.

    Greece, Majorca , and then Portugal what was actually going on , on those holidays ? sorry for asking this im "just curious".

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  171. @ 172 I read that article as well and doesn't it show what a right mess the British legal system is. According to that article those young girls (12 or 14 year olds) who a few years ago gave birth to thier own children would not be able ot look after thier own children as they are too young and they would get charged by the police for causing harm. As you rightly point out two self confessed child neglectors walk free.

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  172. Jimuck is quite right when he mentions the possibility of a third "event"! In his book, Mr. Amaral clearly mentions the two events we all know about, the one in Maiorca and the other, as he writes, "on another occasion", I think it's the one Mrs. Gaspar was not sure were it had taken place, if some days later on the same holiday or in a restaurant in Leicester. Then, he goes on to state the following: (sorry for the poor translation, I'll try to do my best)

    "In middle July, there were some rumors running amongst the investigation team, that something similar had occurred, but at the time no details about the event or the identities of those involved were known. These rumors pointed at an identical situation, which had eventually happened in Greece, on a holiday. However, no solid evidence came to our knowledge. Further explanations/details were asked to the british police, to no avail."

    I bet that the "investigation team" that was spreading the rumors was the british one...maybe they wanted their "careless whispers" to be overheard by portuguese ears!

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  173. The Crypt in The Liverpool Cathderal, has many rooms, its under the building, its not a graveyard, they have many functions there. The Maccann,s really are scraping the bottom of the barrel, this will not raise much money.

    Mary Liverpool

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  174. @170,im always suspicious of WHY people delete thier blogs,if they thought they were right in what they say, he should have left it there for people to read,looks like blacksmith was a hit and run merchant.

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  175. If there are not people buried there somewhere then why is it called a Crypt?

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  176. Anon 176

    Interesting. Did those 'rumours' involve the same person or persons, or yet others in the group? Rumours should not always be dismissed, especially in the case of a dead/missing child.

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  177. Hi 180 totally agree, i dont think Gerry MaCann was on the Greek holiday, so if we look back at the Majorcan holiday WHO played Gerrys part on the Greek holiday.

    Gaspars,,, David Payne/Gerry MaCann

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  178. Thanks for the posting Mary at 177 - I too hope they do not raise very much money, I suspect there have been quite a few 'charity' events run by the mcconns, it really it about time they were taking in for some serious questioning. Keep us posted Mary thanks xx

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  179. Gerry and Clarence control everything that is printed in our main stream media, as Clarence insisted the abduction theory is the only theory.
    What we read is what we are supposed to read, look beyond it, I would say forget the Gaspars its rubbish but it diverts our attention, we spend time analysing their statements, in fact wasting our time those statements are there to mislead the public, and before you say Im pro-mccann I can assure you I am not - I just do not accept those statements as true.. from a mothers point of view.
    I also do not believe in the p ... theory, that is what Gerry wants us to believe because people give more money under those circumstances.
    Also if you look at Madeleine's photographs she is not the pretty little girl in the posters, in fact Madeleine was rather plain, but that would not suit Gerry and Co, look at the photographs on the internet, she had shorter hair and was quite plain looking.
    Her eye defect could have mean't she had some disability and Kate found it very hard to cope with her and she just snapped.
    When I read old files I can see they are lying - hindsight is a wonderful thing - but now the authorities should re-open the case.
    Once they knew the mccanns were lying about the shutters etc - the media circus should have been stopped, they have been allowed to illegally obtain funds from the public and are still doing so, for their own private company.
    This book of theirs will bring forth a million new sightings of Madeleine from the gullible public and each one the mccanns will say they are 'hopeful and encouraged' but when Baby Grace was washed ashore in Americain 2007 in a plastic container and people thought that was Madeleine mccanns never said a single word, did'nt even go to check that it was not Madeleine, but then of course they know exactly what happened to Madeleine, so I suppose they never need to search, check or do anything except collect donations.
    Well done Joana and Astro.

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  180. 179,

    Don't know but will try to find out, It may be a part of it has been used in the past, they also have mass there, I have never seen any graves or the function room its huge so possibly there are lots of rooms. But its still callled the crypt

    Mary Liverpool

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  181. I believe Gerry "lost"his credit card because they never bought their breakfast and lunch at the super market.
    He could not prove it.

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  182. I just read the satement of Silvia Maria Correia Batista and I noticed that Gerry told her that when HE found Madeleine missing, the window was open...
    HE?! It was between 10.30 and 11.00pm, and the post cards photos of Maddie's were already ready!
    Gerry had them in his hands.
    After all, where were those photos coppied?

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  183. Wonder why the Mccann's did not stick yet on the last case of a missing person that seems at some point, similar to Madeleine- The twins Licia and Alessia who went missing in Switzerland after been under the care of their father. All the cases that have the stamp of both or one of the parents must be avoided at all grounds. They don't suit Mccann's agenda, no matter if they fall on the bag of the most reasonable and big probabilities, like Madeleine, that link the tragedy a child went trough, with her family and not with a stranger.
    Interesting that all international and independent media compare the search done by police and public and the efforts of Interpol with Madeleine case, saying that was the same. Those contradict the Mccann's that still lying now when they accuse PJ of letting Madeleine down, doing little or not searching their daughter. They are running their Fund and asking donations based on that lie. WHAT ARE YOU WRITING ON YOUR BOOK, KATE, REGARDING THAT ISSUE? More lies or just ignoring what is uncomfortable to assume? The book will be another crime and the Sun, who payed an insultuous amount to serialize the lies must be ashamed because is encouraging crimes against fragile children.

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  184. Anon 186

    Was Gerry referring to Madeleine being 'missing' from her bed because her body was hidden from view behind the settee where she had died? This is where the dogs alerted to blood and cadaver scent and the settee had been moved from its usual place. Experiments with cadaver dogs resulted in discovering that even the best cadaver dogs (and the dog alerting in the apartment was the best) need at least one hour and twenty five minutes for the cadaver to give off the scent for it to be detected.

    Gerry says he saw Madeleine alive and well in bed just after 9pm, and Kate was supposed to have found she had gone missing around 10pm. That means not enough time for the cadaver scent to have developed, and especially if Jane Tanner is saying she saw a man carrying a child away,(presumed to be Madeline), just after Gerry had seen her alive. The timing needed for the cadaver scent to have been detected in the apartment means that Madeleine's body must have been there for at least an hour and a half, if not much more than that. No wonder Gerry tries so hard to discredit the dogs.

    So who did the clean up after she was found? Why the need for her body to be whisked away and hidden if she had simply died by accident?

    Which day and time did Madeleine really die? There had to have been time for some kind of clean up, and certainly not long enough for Kate to have done it that night when she left the Tapas if she had only been gone for a few minutes.

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  185. The thing about the Gaspar statements is that they will put pressure on Payne to tell if there is anything he knows about what really happened to Madeleine, and he had nothing to do with it.

    No way would the Gaspar statements keep him quiet if it gets widespread coverage in the UK. Quite the reverse. Also, did the PJ ever request from the LP what it was that Payne wanted to say about the disappearance of Madeleine that he did not want put in his statement. The PJ had to request the Gaspar statements be sent on to them from the LP, so did they ever request the information that Payne wanted to give the LP, or is it sitting around in some file with the LP, being as the case was shelved shortly after this.

    Surely, if the PJ have never read what Payne wanted to say in confidence then they certainly need to. Could that be the information needed to reopen the case? Might this also be something to do with the Wikileaks release? Payne should certainly have been interviewed by the PJ, and still should be, instead of him not having them there for his interview in the UK.

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  186. Poster 183 Exellent post

    'Also if you look at Madeleine's photographs she is not the pretty little girl in the posters...'

    Only a part of your post, but I totally agree with you. There is something wrong with Madeleine herself. That there is something wrong with her parents is beyond dispute.
    NL

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  187. To summarize: we all believe the Mccanns are guilty here at some level, so what can we do to have the case reopened?
    I'm not british but I would be ready to sign a petition or to join a protest.
    I think this site is amazing and much needed, but as somebody said , we need action!
    We cannot let the Mccanns play their part without responding in some way, the general public cannot only hear their voice! Especially if the media are on their side. We need to make more noise than that!

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  188. Sorry for the off-topic post, but, does anyone know if there is anything wrong with Textusa? She has not updated her blog for a while, judging from the number of replies to her most recent post, it "froze" at 5 comments, and has been like this for days now.
    I cannot shake the feeling that something serious (bad) has happened, with Ironside maybe. I sincerely hope that is not the case.

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  189. 157, the fact Amaral published the Gaspars' statements on the The Truth of The Lie proves he believes the Gaspars.
    The police must know more.
    About Greece: Amaral tells about the same incident in Greece, he tells about Payne but he does not say it had to do with Madeleine.
    He refers to Payne's obscene gesture that was seen in Greece(by whom?) but he writes he knows no details about it.
    It is possible that there are more people who told about Payne.

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  190. Isn't it ironic - Madeleine Mccann the most famous 'abducted' child in the world, whose parents set up a private limited company fund for which donations have topped hundreds of thousands of pounds but they never once physically searched for her or co-operated with authorities, have flown to Portugal for litigation cases but would not take part in a reconstruction, cadaver only found on items handled by the parents and in their apartment, opened a Madeleine on-line store, they are currently writing a book about the 'abduction' for an estimated 2 million pounds, but still there is not one single shred of evidence that the most famous abducted child in the world was ever abducted.

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  191. 192, people use to go on holidays at this time of the year.
    Sometimes long holidays, Africa, Asia.
    Maybe this is Textusa's case.

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  192. Beautiful! Please read the McCann Files.
    "Kathy" (I believe she is the McCanns themselves) is complaining against people who are doing nothing to find Madeleine.
    I regret the McCanns never gave the good example in order to teach the world how people can search for a cadaver or eventually for a alive child.
    They are criticising the British government and that is good news.
    Let them irritate all political parties, the more they irritate, the better for the Portuguese police.

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  193. A good post from 'Blacksmith' at Mccannfiles.

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  194. How often I've read that the three children, specially Madeleine, were tired.
    Kate even says, at her last statement, that Madelein had asked her to carry her home, after a day at the crèche.
    I don't believe it is true because I think Madeleine was already dead.
    But the idea of being tired, so often, Maddie was not healthy, imo.
    Or maybe it was not a issue of crèche but of crash.
    On May the 4th Kate speaks about Madeleine already in the past tense.
    Already used to her death and that is an exception,imo.

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  195. What a case this is.

    Hints of paedophilia, swingers, and then the death of a little girl. Does nobody in authority want to know what really happened to Madeleine?

    It should never have been shelved in the first place. To sweep it under the carpet as an accidental death is not good enough.

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  196. If Kate McCann does a public book signing perhaps then would be the time to ask her why she is sure that Maddy was abducted, despite there being no evidence of an intruder. But I wouldn't waste my money and buy the book, better to comment on the reviews and e-mail journalists.

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