16 March 2012

Maddie Case: Vanishing Revisited


Scotland Yard is making a “reappreciation” of the Maddie Process. The virtual reconstruction made by Portuguese scientists was disregarded. The English want to make another...

by Hernâni Carvalho

No one has reopened the process because there aren't new data regarding the child's whereabouts. Underway there is a re-evaluation of the process led by Scotland Yard, that has the cooperation of a unit from the Regional Section for Criminal Investigation and Prevention of the PJ of Oporto. It was recently divulged that 37 English police officers have been, for the past year, reading translations and reassessing Maddie's process, which was archived by the Portuguese Public Ministry in July 2008, 14 months after the girl's disappearance.

The English police, just in 2011, have already spent 2,2 million euros in investigations and re-evaluations. During that time period, they have been in Portugal on four different occasions and have established a partnership with the Judiciary Police. The latter, in its turn created a special team “with a more distanced look”, wrote Jornal de Notícias, quoting Pedro do Carmo, deputy director of the PJ. That is, another team that had nothing to do with the first investigations.

New PJ Team

The new PJ team assigned to cooperate with the English, is coordinated by Helena Monteiro, who has had a similar role in Carina case, the young woman who disappeared in Lamego and was later found at the bottom of a ravine in that same region. This is not the first time that Maddie Case changed hands. Months before its archival, the process was pulled from the PJ in Algarve and given to a team in Lisbon, at the time lead by Paulo Rebelo - without bringing something new into the world or to the process.

Four years since the archival and five since the disappearance of the English girl, after the PJ of Portimão/Faro and Lisbon, now it's Oporto's PJ turn to do the re-evaluation. At a forthcoming reassessment, probably another PJ team from another region will have it's turn.

More Virtual Reconstructions

A reconstruction is one of the tools of criminal investigation more used by the police, world wide, in the path towards the discovery of the origin of a fact and of the truth. It is written in manuals. A presential re-enactment of what took place in the night that Maddie disappeared (May 3, 2007) was never done.
The McCanns and the friends who accompanied them at the dinner never had the temporal availability to participate. The Public Ministry ended up forgoing that step.

The only known virtual reconstruction was made by the professors Paulo Sargento (Criminal psychology) and by Pedro Gamito (IT department) of the Lusófona University, using as basis the statements of the McCanns and their friends. By means of a specific software, the statements given to the PJ were evaluated and cross-checked. Thus, one can now understand better the possibilities of each one of them being at a certain place and time, as stated by them.

This work by the Portuguese scientists was ignored, but now the Scotland Yard divulged that they will also use a software program to reconstruct those events. In English, that might be more enlightening.

Facts

On the night of May 3, 2007, the McCann couple left their three children alone in the apartment (the twins of two years old, and Maddie with almost four) and they went out to have dinner with their friends at a restaurant of the tourist resort where they were staying. A few hours later after the disappearance of one of the couple's children (Madeleine), several media and press advisers were deployed to Aldeia da Luz, Algarve, announcing to the world the abduction of the girl.

What took place inside the apartment from where she disappeared was never established. It's a fact that no hairs nor traces pertaining to someone outside the circle of family and friends was ever found. It's a fact that no one knows what has happened to Madeleine.

Interruption of the Investigation

Since the launch of his book ‘Maddie - The Truth of the Lie’, the former PJ coordinator, Gonçalo Amaral has said: “There was no failure of the investigation, there was an interruption of the investigation”. The man who led the first investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, was removed from the case five months later, he acknowledged some errors in the investigation (the lack of reconstruction, the absence of tests to the twins and also to the couple and Madeleine's clothes). Failure or interruption, in fact, what did take place was the archival.

McCann couple & Tapas 7 Virtual Reconstruction

Courtesy of Dr. Paulo Sargento
Made by Pedro Gamito and Paulo Sargento, with a team from Lusófona University. Circa 2008. Permission was given for this upload. Music* added by the uploader, original is almost silent except for some background human voice (sounds).

in TVmais, Police Cases, page 112 & page 113, paper edition, 16 to 22 March, 2012


Related



McCanns Suspect: Photo-fit under the magnifying glass
A new video by Paulo Sargento and Pedro Gamito shocked viewers in the Police Chronicles section of the SIC morning talk show Fátima. The photo-fit of Maddie McCann kidnapper was transformed into the face of the child’s mother, Kate...

Faces analysis techniques point to failures in the McCanns description
The work was made during a week by the forensic psychologist Paulo Sargento in partnership with the technological engineer Pedro Gamito. The team juxtaposed the three photo-fits that existed from the presumable kidnapper and work them in 20 programs of faces analysis. And dismounted the kidnapping thesis, "The kidnapping thesis is ludicrous" defends Paulo Sargento.


Note *
Music added to video is Stabat Mater in F minor, RV 621 ("Eia Mater, fons amoris"), by Vivaldi. Performed by Sara Mingardo (Soprano), Concerto Italiano conducted by Rinaldo Alessandrini.

52 comments:

  1. Is this complete? It lacks Tanner going to her apartment, passing by Gerry and Jez Wilkins and doing her "sighting" of the "abductor". I can't believe it was left out, it would show how virtually impossible it is for someone to walk up the road and without being noticed!

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  2. I had read already something about that before, UK media, but I didn't believe it. It seems to be true. The Yard are already at the item "reconstruction", after having read all of the statememnts, including the rogatory letters. And they still have all of the interviews of the McCanns, through the years, which in some way are also statements.
    Kate put Maddie under the blankets, Gerry "it was hot....she was in a recovering position", Tanner... an egg...George Harrison,Matt and Rachel...two windows..., cuddle cat on a shelf, 6 cadavers in Kate's hospital, toys near the cadavers...
    Christ, what a work!

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  3. Read as well: Oporto police handed Madeleine review - Portugal News
    «Sources close to the case in Portugal have told The Portugal News that they support the Portuguese review in that they hope it will conclude “an investigation which was ended while still in its infancy.”»

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  4. @1 I think you just answered your own question. Jane 'invisible/x-ray eyes' Tanner could not have passed though them without being seen.

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  5. For those who have not yet grasped the complexity of the Tapas 9 Timeline and the amount of road covered in the ceaseless effort to keep their children safe Impartial has produced a condensed reconstruction of the May 3, 2007: The Tapas 9 Timeline Redux

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  6. easy for software to assign e,b,c,etc
    to different persona and then carry out a
    reconstruction showing what was said
    and then showing an "Ariel view"
    of what was said and the placement
    of said persona at any moment.
    a nightmare for any guilty person.
    IMO

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  7. jane tanner is the key to this,WHY DID SHE LIE.

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  8. seems most odd that russell goes to the apartments just 5 minutes after matthew, and then returns half an hour later just five minutes before kate calls the alert. If I remember the excuse was that a child had been sick and he needed to wash the blankets, but it seems strange

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  9. I could never understand how any parent could leave children this young unattended, but when you watch the virtual reconstruction of the parents going to the Tapas bar and leaving their children alone, it actually made me feel like crying.

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  10. What I ask myself is if the Scotland Yard is able to put aside uncalled for rivalries, nationalistic and xenophobe prejudices, and do the right thing. Previous attitudes and statements of british police forces make me very suspicious.

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  11. Scotland Yard must know all the answers . Why are the McCanns still free ?

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  12. Am I missing something here?

    Why hasn't the reconstruction got Jane Tanner leaving the Tapas and going to do the check at the same time as Gerry is talking to JW, and only mentions her arriving at the Tapas at 9.10pm. Is this inferring that JT never was at the Tapas before that time so never did go off to do a check?

    If so, her account of passing Gerry and Wilkins and seeing the supposed 'abductor' passing at the top of the road at the same time is far less than truthful. In fact, it would be criminal, given how much time, money, and manpower was spent chasing around searching for this non existent man.

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  13. THIS IS NOT A JOINT POLICE REVIEW REVIEW! IT IS A BURSON-MARSTELLER/LIFT CONSULTING, PR EXERCISE!

    The thing to remember is that SY and their PJ side-kicks are looking for information that may lead to an abductor NOT to the parents peccadillo - if any.

    That is what is meant by a "fresh look" at the case and the drafting of Porto's PJ.

    Surely, these must have been the ideologically motivated instructions of David Cameroon on behalf of the McCanns.

    It is all PR! The more they talk about a review the more the public is likely to believe the parents may be innocent, otherwise the police wouldn't be still at it, right?

    This is all PR! "evidence-based communications", "reputation management" - whatever you want to call it. Recapping:

    Burson-Marsteller (directed by Clarence "Mickey Mouse" Mitchell) motto is: "Evidence-based communications. Inform. Monitor. Measure..." (quote) which of course a variant of "Mickey Mouse's" immortal phrase:

    "There is a wholly innocent explanation for any material the police may or may not have found." (quote)

    Mitchell's firm by the way is (quote) "a leading global public relations and communications firm with offices and affiliate partners in 81 countries" (unquote).

    Lift Consulting, on the other hand, presents itself as (quote) "a strategic management consultancy for communications, REPUTATION MANAGEMENT, public affairs and media relations." (unquote - capitals mine).

    PRESS RELEASE:

    "Burson-Marsteller Enters Exclusive Partnership with Lift Consulting in Portugal

    http://www.burson-marsteller.com/newsroom/lists/PressReleases/DispForm.aspx?ID=699&nodename=Press%20Releases%20Archive

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  14. I wish people would stop being negative, would stop insisting on xenophobie.
    Both groups, Yard and PJ, are colleagues. They are both interested on solving a crime and it is what a police always are.
    The Yard are not sent by Brown but by Cameron.

    When the Yard arrived in Portugal last year, they arrived knowing already that Madeleine was dead and that the parents are involved in the desappearance.
    We don't know how many people wrote both police telling what they know, what they heard about the case.
    We even don't know if at least one of the Tapas has told already the truth, choosing for being a witness instead of becoming an arguido.
    I believe that there are many more people than 9,10,12 that know the truth already. Impossible to keep it secret. I believe that lawyers advised them to come forward.
    I think the PJ and the Yard accepted the revision BECAUSE they have a solution. They would not spend such a lot of money and remain on the same place they were, in 2007.

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  15. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116320/Madeleine-McCann-Police-review-huge-step.html

    They're on for another run...let's see who from their Tapas7 friendswill join them for "support" this time. Last time it was Rachel Oldfield, who's turn is it now?

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  16. Is JW a reliable witness? What was in his stroller?

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  17. "McCann couple & Tapas 7 Virtual Reconstruction"
    Joana, I trust that your use of a movement from the same work (Vivaldi RV621) that was used in the film The Talented Mr Ripley, is not suggesting there are any similarities in the plot (switching identities for gain)?

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  18. It is worrying as to what influence Clarence has on Cameron, being as he worked for him, and Clarence no doubt put in an excellent word or two for the McCanns.

    If the McCanns were to get themselves arrested after all the PR from Clarence, and him feeding constant pro McCann abduction tripe to the media, he is going to look like an idiot to say the least. Will people even want to employ him since he is so identified with the McCanns?

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  19. Sadly, the author of comment 13 is spot on.
    They will NEVER face justice.
    They are a protected species but nobody knows why.

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  20. what about Mattheuw at 8.55 listening at the two windows of Maddie's bedroom?
    On his way to the building crossing with the Paynes(8.55pm) and probably seeing Gerry going towards the front door, short after 9.00pm?

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  21. THE PORTUGUESE PRIME-MINISTER TELLS DAVID CAMERON:"UP YOURS SENOR!"

    17/03/2012 13:22
    Anonymous said... 14 "I wish people would stop being negative..."

    OK. I shall make an effort. I appreciate your positive thinking but this is what is bugging me:

    What is the public to expect from a locked-room review? One that will not be published?

    I am not aware this will be a transparent review like the Leveson Enquiry, say? Are you? Will at least its findings be published? Like the PJ's was? Do you know? I don't!

    Not that this would guarantee its independence! A certain amount of editing and ideological spin would always be there but, at least the public would have been given some kind of reassurance...

    The other thing is:

    ALL requests by the public to re-open the case have been ignored but a single letter from the McCanns' (OK, two) was all that took to start a giant dry-cleaning machine full of dirty laundry (SY).

    In my perception, the way the Portuguese authorities should have handled David Cameron's request (or SY for that matter) would have been as follows:

    PRESS RELEASE UK e.g Associated Press, says:

    "David Cameron, in the sequence of a letter sent to him by Gerald and Kate McCann, has ordered Scotland Yard to review Madeleine McCann's case..."

    The following day another PRESS RELEASE PT e.g. LUSA, goes:

    "Passos-Coelho, prime-minister of Portugal, in reply to a letter sent to him by former PJ co-ordinator Gonçalo Amaral, has ordered the PJ to re-open Madeleine McCann's case. McCanns and their friends have today been notified to attend a reconstruction in Praia da Luz."

    That's how it should have been IF Portugal had not decided to play second-fiddle to Britain. Surely, this must be extremely embarassing for the Portuguese!

    OK, may be the Portuguese thought: "Alright! Alright! Give them a hand, least they think we are against "Meccanos" and/or have something up our sleeves. Just keep an eye on them to make sure they don't steal anything. Check. Double-check. Counter-check."

    OK, I can understand the educated, diplomatic stance of the Portuguese but, personally, I would have preferred to play things from a position of power - which is the one the British are more familiar with, except, this time I would be the one calling the shots!

    I would not be seen playing subservient office boy to Cameron. Oh no! Trust me, I would have told him: "Up yours senor!" - metaphorically of course...

    Having said that, I shall stick to my promise and try to be more positive in the future. Fingers crossed. :d

    Anon 13 17/03/2012 11:25

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  22. a specific software program... why are the McCanns not saying it is ridiculous?
    It is high time they start criticising the Yard, saying this virtual reconstruction is worthless.
    I wish somebody would interview them very soon. I would love to hear their opinion about the revision.

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  23. I hope you will publish an opinion which differs. I am a supporter of Mr Amaral however I think JT is honest and truthful and saw an innocent bypasser carrying a child (not the missing child). Remember her sighting was not publicised until 22 days later. Please note this simple explanation is 100% compatible with the death in flat theory, and also it totally eliminates the one and only argument for the kidnap theory.

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  24. 16, I'm not Joana but I will ask your question. Jeremy Wilkins seems to be very reliable witness. I believe he was very sincere at his statement.

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  25. If the revision got already at the moment of the reconstruction, the Yard are already quite far. They must have studied all of the interviews too and compared them with the statements of Tapas 7. On the video above, I miss Mrs. Webster although I know she has nothing to do with the cover up.
    And she is quite important in the reconstruction. The Paynes told on their statements that they passed Oldfield by, when they were going to the Tapas. Mrs. Webster denied it, stating she did not see anyone when she was going to the restaurant.I think Mrs. Webster was the most sincere of the group.Also because she told on her statement that she tried Maddie's window from outside, and she found it impossible to open .
    Perhaps the Met will put her on their reconstruction.

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  26. no sign of any of the Tapas friends in recent charity run. See video in this link:

    www.independent.ie/video/video-highlights/madeleine-case-review-a-huge-step-3053707.html

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  27. Cannot believe it, Mothers Day in the UK and not 1 mention of the Mother of all Mothers. Mother Maccann, not one award, no words of praise for the gal we have all taken to our hearts our beloved Kate. Wake up before you Go Go what is the matter with you get those flowers en route to Rothley before its too late. Anyone want to start a fund.

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  28. 7) Jane Tanner lied because she had to give herself and to give Russel an alibi. They had a "vomitting" child. I believe they are directly involved in the desappearance.
    The most important question here is why Payne remained on his chair the whole evening and why was he the only one with a monitor.
    he took distance from the crime already from the first moment.
    If it was really an accident, he would have accepted being part of the checking group,imo. I suspect it was more than an accident and that is my opnion.He could be the key of the crime.
    This reconstruction doesn's attract the attention to the Paynes at the table.

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  29. The Express will always report in favour of Mccanns but never something against them,such as Mr Amarals success with his book,that is of course if he gets them back as directed by the judge.It will be interesting to see what happens if he does'nt.Majority of people in Britain believe that the Mccanns were to blame for Maddies disappearance.We hope that the police will bring out the true story and listen to the true honest people,Maddie died in the flat.

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  30. 26) I watched the video. The McCanns again "on the front page".They are in front of the running group. Both, specially Gerry, aged a lot. Gerry looks nervous, tired and impatient.

    29 Express has no other choice otherwise they will be sued again.

    23) Jane Tanner "identified" Murat, when she was sitting in a van, one night. she destroyed him on purpose.

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  31. JANE TANNER'S MOONLIGHTING (Part II)

    "Mickey" remains to date, in charge of the McCanns image dry-cleaning operation or "reputation magement" as he puts it.

    The thing to remember however is, "Mickey Mouse" Mitchell, is the actual director of the powerful Burson-Marsteller which turns out to be closely associated with Lift Consulting, PT - the Media and PR representatives of the McCanns' "brand" in Portugal...

    Are you following?

    One can only imagine what is going on behind the scenes. Joseph Goebbels' Nazi propaganda headquarters would probably pale in comparison (...)

    If you are not convinced yet, please consider the following quotes and links:

    "Clarence Mitchell joined Burson-Marsteller UK as a Managing Director in September 2011, providing strategic counsel to corporate and public affairs clients across all practice areas, with his particular specialism in media relations, stakeholder engagement and REPUTATION MANAGEMENT."(quote/unquote - capitals mine)

    http://burson-marsteller.co.uk/about/key-staf/#profile.Clarence.Mitchell

    "Lift Consulting is a strategic management consultancy for communications, REPUTATION MANAGEMENT, public affairs and media relations." (quote/unquote - capitals mine).

    http://www.wpp.com/wpp/companies/officedetail.htm?id=3132

    PRESS RELEASE

    "Burson-Marsteller, a leading global public relations and communications firm, today announced an exclusive affiliate partnership with Lift Consulting, a leading Portuguese communications consultancy specialising in REPUTATION MANAGEMENT"

    http://www.burson-marsteller.com/newsroom/lists/PressReleases/DispForm.aspx?ID=699&nodename=Press%20Releases%20Archive

    The association of the two, results in spinning not just at its best but at its fastest! Happening simultaneousness in the UK, Portugal and whichever country it needs to. Burson-Marsteller has offices and affiliate partners in 81 countries!

    http://www.burson-marsteller.com/default.aspx

    Just observe every time something comes up in the media that somehow affects the McCanns' much publicized "official version of events" and observe how fast their PR apparatus counter-acts any ill-effects. It's truly amazing!

    It's conspiracy theory alright! :d

    (2/2)

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  32. JANE TANNER'S MOONLIGHTING

    Anon 23 "JT is honest and truthful and saw an innocent bypasser carrying a child (not the missing child)"

    It is possible but it is rather more rational to assume she was lying (unless she was on LSD). Please pay attention to her testimonies. How they change - often quite dramatically.

    The descriptions of the abductor cover a range which goes from an "egg man" to Robert Murat not because he looked like an egg but because she might have thought his behaviour was akin to that of an "omelette" - i.e. someone mixed-up enough to play the role of a scapegoat. That was a stupid allegation and for which she is now awaiting her day in court with Murat. When the judge's decision comes, it will not look nice on her nor on her bank account statement...

    The other counter-argument is:

    IF the sighting was of an innocent passer by, then given the media storm unleashed by the event, chances were the "innocent" passer-by would have could forward.

    Another thought-provoking debunking of Tanner's alleged sighting is given here:

    http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/invisibile-jane.html

    This brings me back to my pet argument that the event could have been masterminded in tandem with Clarence "Mickey Mouse" Mitchell - Gordon Brown's master-spinner. Important to note here that Jane Tanner was a marketing manager at the time.

    The political interference theory which is often brought in to explain how the McCanns' have been able, so far, "to get away with murder" (metaphor) often ignore the fact that Clarence Mitchell (AKA "Mickey Mouse") has, from the very beginning, taken a special (ideological) interest in them.

    First, under the auspices of PM Gordon Brown - "Mickey Mouse", as you might recall, was in charge of the Media Monitoring Unit of the British government under Tony Blair. Remember Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction and other stories? Classic Walt Disney (...)

    "Mickey Mouse" was then won over by the McCanns' cause (very much like David Cameron was recently, albeit for different reasons) and became professionally AND emotionally attached to the McCanns' cause - possibly because of class, ideological, hegemonic ressonance but that is something better left to Althusser and Foucault to explain.

    NB This installment was accidentally placed next door -as it were. The typist apologiseez for the confusion. Please read on (above).

    (1/2)

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  33. In reply to anon "IF the sighting was of an innocent passer by, then given the media storm unleashed by the event, chances were the "innocent" passer-by would have could forward".
    The sighting was first made public on about 25 May. It was secret for about 22 days. Long time. Plus people in those 22 days saw the misfortune experienced by unconnected people mistakenly suspected. I don't recall any appeal in those first 22 days (nor afterwards) for an innocent bypasser to come forward. If it can be proven this was an innocent bypasser and JT was honestly mistaken, it means the only indication of kidnap disappears.

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  34. Did the sighting of the Smiths 'Gerry lookalike' carrying a 'Madeleine lookalike' at almost ten o'clock, mean the timings had to be changed drastically to include a sighting of the 'abductor' by JT at 9.10pm, including Gerry talking to Wilkins and providing him with an alibi, plus attention away from the potentially very dangerous Smith sighting? Her supposed sighting also gave an alibi to Jane's husband and the rest of them.

    Previous to that, would Kate have been the one to have caught a glimpse of a man carrying a child passing at the top of the road at her ten o'clock check, but because of the pesky Smith sighting and possible identification of the man as a Gerry lookalike, there had to be a quick rethink and go with JT and 9.10pm instead?

    Jane certainly didn't come bursting forth with her supposed sighting immediately did she.

    Did Jane Tanner even do a check at all that night, being as it was usually the men who did them? Her telling of the check at 9.10pm was certainly very elaborate, much more so than was needed, as though she was trying hard to convince it ever took place.

    Why were they sorting the timings out on the back of the child's sticker book? For what purpose, when they could individually have told their movements to the investigators, which is the usual thing. Surely that must have looked very fishy for a start.

    Also, if David Payne did not need to do checking because the Paynes could listen into their room from the table, why did Kate McCann say that Payne had never mentioned Madeleine crying the night before.

    This was the night Madeleine was supposedly referring to when she asked why didn't Kate come when she and her brother were crying. That sounds like Kate is saying DP did do checking. If so, what kind of checking did he do on that particular night, and why did he not do checking on the night Madeleine was reported missing?

    There is so much that does not add up, and hopefully SY will have a good grasp of this when requestioning the Tapas friends, and not be led down the garden path just as the PJ refused to be.

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  35. "Did Jane Tanner even do a check at all that night, being as it was usually the men who did them?"

    Excellent overall reasoning @34

    Oddly enough Prof. Paulo Sargento in his virtual re-construction above does not seem to give Jane Tanner's "clock in" (arrival) at the Tapas Bar nor at what time she "clocked out" (went) for a check up. Was Prof. Sargento trying to tell us/PJ something or have I missed something? Could anyone clarify please?

    Merci!

    M. Dupont

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  36. If it can be proved that Jane Tanner never even did a check that night then she is in deep trouble, even if she was not directly connected to the disappearance of Madeleine.

    So much time, money and effort wasted, there is no doubt the punishment would reflect this, and who really knows just what evidence the investigators do have. It would be very foolish to have lied to them.

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  37. @ 34.
    You say that Kate had said "why hadn`t Paine mentioned Madeleine crying the night before"
    I thought I had followed this case & knew most of what had been said & by whom. This bit must have escaped me. Would you please tell me where & when it was said.
    Perhaps it was in the book, I definately have not had my hands on a copy of that.

    W.

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  38. Anon 37, it was said, no idea where. Perhaps somebody else could quote chapter and verse on that one.

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  39. Facts

    On the night of May 3, 2007, the McCann couple left their three children alone in the apartment ...

    This first sentence is already wrong. It's not a fact as no one has seen Madeleine that day. The investigation should take a very close look into the creche records, especially the 30th of April when Madeleine stayed only for 15 minutes in the afternoon session. The question is why and what happened afterwards...

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  40. Anon 37 & 37

    I have good news for you. Check it out:
    http://www.mccannfiles.com/id242.html

    Ruy Roskoff

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  41. Anonymous @37

    It was claimed in the Tapas7 Rogatory Interviews that Rachael Oldfield was sick on Wednesday 2 May and she stayed in her apartment (next door to the McCanns) all day and didn't go to the tapas bar that evening.

    I haven't heard/read Kate McCann saying anything about it (did she say it in the book?) but Clarence Mitchell definitely claimed (on film) that Rachael Oldfield was in her apartment that night - in the room adjoining Maddie's bedroom wall - and she didn't hear any crying (on May 2).

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  42. Ruy at 40, thanks for the information that Payne HAD done a child check the night previous to Madeleine vanishing, the same night Madeleine was referring to when she asked Kate why didn't she come when she was crying.

    I remember thinking at the time that does not sound so good for Payne, especially as Kate McCann also said Madeleine was afraid of 'Pain', which of course could have been interpreted as Payne the man, unless it was made very clear it was not. Plus the Gaspar statements of course.

    I have read she has since corrected this in her book to mean pain as in feeling pain.

    Presumably his checking was also listening at windows and doors for the other children?

    Why no checking by Payne on the night of the reported Madeleine vanishing then? Listening from a distance is not enough to make sure a child is OK. So why not that night also?

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  43. Anon 39, I agree, too many things are taken as a given fact, but unless they can be verified by a completely independent witness how can they be in a case like this.

    Which of the creche workers did the McCanns know previously, or visited them at Rothley? If this was the case then they should be classed alongside the Tapas as far as being independent witnesses goes.

    As for signing in and out on the creche sheets, some places have a very laid back attitude, and with a number of children around it is easy to become distracted. If there was a lax attitude to the routine of signing in, who is going to admit to that?

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  44. Thanks JillyCL @ 41, so no sound all night from the McCanns apartment, and all the more reason to think Madeleine never said it and Kate made it up? Now why would she to do that?

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  45. THE REST IS STORY

    @44 "so no sound all night from the McCanns apartment, and all the more reason to think Madeleine never said it and Kate made it up? Now why would she to do that?"

    Are you suggesting Madeleine's crying that night stopped with a "bang" (the suggested "accident"?) and the rest is history? Story, I mean...

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  46. Did Kate attend six deaths prior to the holiday ? Surely this would be on record somewhere , If it's fact . Has this ever been investigated ?

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  47. @ 40....strange comment
    What good news, please explain?????

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  48. Thank you anon 40. I did not know that Payne did any child checking since he had the only monitor & didn`t even check on his own kids.
    Gasper statement means more to me by the day.

    W.

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  49. Is it possible the clothes indicated in the clothing inspection were not being worn during the meal? Is it possible instead they were in that pile on the shelf? Possibly a reconstruction of events may include not only locations of people but also locations of clothes?

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  50. Hoping beyond hope that those of us who do not blindly accept the calims of the McCanns and their friends will soon be vindicated

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  51. If one person briefly hides something under a pile of clothes, the object contacts the surface the pile is on and also contacts some of the clothes in the pile. I think Eddie is 100% accurate, therefore it seems likely to me that the clothes came into contact because they were in the pile, isn't that the simplest explanation?

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  52. This is from the rog interview of DP. Seems that DP saw the same person whom FP and ROB and RO and SB mistakenly misidentified as RM? Source: DP rog http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post452.html#p452
    "He was err somebody that I would not a hundred percent say that I saw the night before but there was somebody who was also err who was translating for us that evening who I you know briefly chatted to, stood next to a Policeman, that I you know thought to be RM but I would never say conclusively that that was RM."

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