1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º

Kate McCann and Karen Matthews: an uncanny coincidence?

Twist upon twist in the Shannon Matthews case

Bellow image credits go to my dear friend H. at The McCann Gallery

Nine-year-old's disappearance gripped the country, but details gradually emerged of a 'truly despicable' kidnapping plot

by Rachel Williams

Local residents put up a poster of Shannon Matthews in Leeds West Yorkshire police's investigation into Shannon Matthews's disappearance would end up costing more than £3.2m. Photograph: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images

For more than three weeks, the image of a grinning Shannon Matthews had been plastered across newspapers and TV screens, together with the strained face of her tearful mother Karen.

Detectives had abandoned murder investigations to join the team searching for the nine-year-old who did not come home from a school swimming trip. It would be West Yorkshire police's biggest such operation since the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper, and end up costing more than £3.2m. Sniffer dogs were brought in from around the country and hundreds of local people helped scour the area for any trace of the little girl.

But as time passed, hope of finding Shannon alive began to fade, and when she was found hidden under a bed in a flat a mile and a half down the road, there was delight and amazement – not least from Detective Superintendent Andy Brennan, the experienced murder specialist heading the inquiry.

Yet there was another twist to come. As Michael Donovan was dragged from his property in Batley Carr, he yelled to officers: "Get Karen down here! We'd got a plan. We're sharing the money – £50,000."

What emerged in court as Matthews and Donovan were tried for kidnapping, false imprisonment and perverting the course of justice was what the judge would go on to describe as a "truly despicable" plot.

Matthews, a mother of seven, planned to stage her daughter's disappearance and keep her captive with Donovan, her then partner's uncle, in a bid to claim thousands of pounds in reward money when Shannon was eventually "found".

Police said it was possible they had been influenced by the international coverage of Madeleine McCann's disappearance 10 months earlier, and there were even claims – discounted by detectives – that the plot could have been inspired by a storyline in the TV drama Shameless, where a young boy had been abducted by his sister to try to extract a £500,000 ransom.

After she was recovered, Shannon was discovered to have traces of temazepam and the travel sickness medication melcozine in her system, part of an apparent attempt to keep her subdued and drowsy. In the loft of Donovan's flat, officers found an elasticated strap, thought to have been used to keep Shannon safely tethered when he went out. "Kidnap rules" were designed to stop her making noise that might reveal her presence to neighbours.

Convicted on all counts at Leeds crown court in December 2008 after a three-week trial, Matthews and Donovan were each jailed for eight years.

Matthews told five versions of what happened to Shannon, ranging from being a distraught mother whose daughter had gone missing, to blaming the crime on her former partner Craig Meehan and other members of his family. Donovan, who had convictions for arson, shoplifting and criminal damage, claimed he was terrified of Matthews and was told that he would be killed if he did not comply with her plan.

Matthews and Donovan were branded respectively a "consummate liar" and a "pathetic inadequate" by QCs in court. But it was the contrast between Matthews's distraught media appearances begging for the return of her "beautiful princess" and her actions behind closed doors that particularly struck observers at the trial.

Even the day after she reported Shannon missing, the court heard, she was observed dancing to the mobile phone ringtone of the police family liaison officer who came to see her, and laughing and joking with Meehan.

And when the good news was broken to her that her daughter had been found safe and well, her reaction was to tell the officer in question: "I like the ringtone on your mobile", before going out shopping.

Much has been made of Karen Matthews's social background, at first when commentators complained that Shannon's disappearance was getting less coverage than Madeleine McCann's had because the girl from the council estate in Dewsbury was not middle class. When Matthews's involvement in her daughter's kidnapping was revealed, others were quick to portray her as symptomatic of a malaise in society, focusing on her seven children from five fathers and dependence on state support.

A Tory councillor, John Ward, was forced to resign from Medway council, in Kent, after he used Matthews as an example of "breakdown Britain" while advocating compulsory sterilisation for parents on benefits.

As for Shannon, she was interviewed for seven hours over five days but she was not called as a witness at the trial. The court was told the ordeal had left the girl "disturbed and traumatised" and suffering from nightmares. And when she was asked, after her rescue, whether she wanted to see her mother, her reply was clear: "No."

in the Guardian, 16 June 2010

related in this blog
19 March 2010 Shannon Matthews search police 'will help look for Madeleine McCann'
5 December 2008 Shannon Matthews kidnap 'inspired by donations to Madeleine McCann fund'
15 March 2008 A different perspective: Shannon Matthews was certainly no Maddie
1 March 2008 Shannon Matthews versus Madeleine McCann: A 'class war'?
25 February 2008 Shanon Matthews, a new Mari Luz Cortes for the McCanns

related from the Guardian published 16 June 2010
Shannon Matthews case puts spotlight on incompetent parenting
Shannon Matthews inquiry clears social workers
Shannon Matthews serious case review clears social workers
Social workers face criticism in Shannon Matthews review


  1. Letter from Iberia
    There are similarities between the cases of Shannon Mathews and Madeleine McCann
    However there is one huge difference in that the mother of Shannon Mathews (Karren) was arrested, charged, prosecuted by the British police who were willing to demonstrate their pursuit of justice and after a trial she was found guilty by a British jury.
    But the mother of Madeleine McCann (Kate) despite leaving her child un attended, being the main suspect in the disappearance and possible death of her child, her not cooperating with the police in any way, trying to frame an innocent man and starting a media circus etc was not charged with any crime and was then given a VIP escort out of Portugal.
    All by a police force that so ably demonstrated its own incompetence

    Justice and Portugal two words not compatible

  2. Letter from Iberia
    Extracted from the British Press this morning

    Kirklees Council announced a serious case review after Matthews and Donovan were convicted in December 2008.

    Last week ministers confirmed that full reports of serious case reviews into the most notorious cases of child abuse are to be published, including the one relating to Shannon.

    Does that include a case review into the Mccans

  3. karen mathews is a much better actress than kate mccann but the media dug deep into karen mathews life and rightly so,but why not kate mccanns, with the way she has behaved yet they are still arse licking them.both these people are vile parents but only one has got what she deserves ,just hope some one some where has the guts to tell the truth as to what really happend to madeleine,she deserves at least that,poor child.

  4. When Shannon was first reported missing I feared the worst, but it did not take me long to change my views. After seeing Karen Matthews giving interviews and the way she copied the McCanns, such as holding the cuddle toy, the tee shirts,hand holding with her partner etc etc, I thought immediately she knew something. IMO, for what it is worth, she saw how easy it was for the McCanns to make money and thought she could do the same and also have her 15 minutes of fame at the same time. Unfortunately for her, she did not have the brain power to pull it off and I know as fact that the police had her well up their list of suspects (and under surveillance) long before Shannon was found. Unlike Kate McCann, Matthews did not have the brain to realize that police could intercept text messages and had other resources not known to the general public up their sleeve. I am not sure if Kate McCann would have known about these things either, but someone quickly made sure she did IMO

  5. I forgot to add, I feel Shannon was not having a very happy life before her mother did what she did but thankfully she no longer has to endure it and hopefully she will in time build a better and happier life with people that really care.

    Also if Kate McCann had come from a similar background to Karen Matthews the reports in the papers would have been very different and there would have been headlines condemning them for leaving the kids to go out drinking etc. The McCanns have a lot to answer for but it is more than strange that (apart from blogs) no one seems to demand the answers

  6. Kate Mccann = Karen Mathews + A BIG COVER-UP FROM BRITISH AUTHORITIES.

    (That is the true equation to explain why one is in prison an the other still allowed to fool the public using the name of official organisations, such as e-bay, Pact or Fighting disesaes Funds).
    Something that the British have to say 'thanks' to their government. And cameron seems to adopt the same blindness and leave them run a new type of business. IS THE LEGALIZATION OF 2 THIEVES.

  7. And Kate , on May 4 2007, was able to enjoy the swimming pool at the same resort where her daughter disapeared. And day after day so on, she went for jogging.

    WHAT MOTHER OF A REAL ABDUCTED CHILD WILL MAKE JOGGING A PRIORITY. I'm sure, any mother on that situation will be immediately destroyed, in absolute need of moral help and without brain to think about anything else then her child.
    For Kate, controling her calories and keep her cardio-function health was more important then help the police with the reconstruction or going out to search her daughter. THAT ARE FACTS THAT NO ANY CARTER-RUCK CAN ERASE FROM THE REPORTS OF THE MEDIA AROUND THE WORLD.

    Look Kate, Italian scientis discovered the remains of Caravaggio and were able to understand the cause of his death, 400 years after... YOU ARE NOT GOING AWAY WITH YOUR LIES.

  8. Hi Anonymous (post 1) Yes the McCanns were given a VIP escort out of Portugal, but the PJ found their hands tied by the "Powers that be" They wanted to prosecute the McCanns for their part in Madeleine's disappearance and when the McCanns were made arguidos, they wanted them to remain in Portugal. They were overruled because the "Powers that be" bowed to British Government pressure.

    That fact was revealed at the recent Amaral/McCann court case. The British Government, stayed silent after the revelation and to my knowledge, the McCanns also stayed silent.

    We all know that what Karen Mitchell did, was a dispicable thing to do, but in my opinion she is no worse than the McCanns. We have learned that Shannon and her siblings, didn't have the best of a life, with their mother and her various partners. We don't know what kind of a life Madeleine and her siblings had with their parents, before Madeleine disappeared.

    The fact that the McCanns could dump their children in a creche, every day of that so called family holiday, while they enjoyed "Me time" with their friends. Then leave them alone in an unlit unlocked apartment, all but one night, while they enjoyed more "Me time" with their friends, suggest to me Madeleine, Sean and Amalie, were brought up in a house without love.

    The McCanns certainly had no thought for their toddlers safety, because Kate McCann said they only upped their checks on the children to every 30 minutes, on the night Madeleine disappeared.

    The McCanns have been questioned many times by the media, about their actions. The media have also pointed out that they should not have left those children alone. The British police, cannot interfere, because whatever happened to Madeleine, happened in another country. The Portuguese Judiciary, still can't interfere, because of intervention by the British Government. So for now the McCanns are walking free from prosecution and along with their wider family, they are able to use the money that was raised to find Madeleine, to aid their finances.

    In my mind they are as dispicable as Karen Matthews.

  9. Shannon Matthews case has many similarities to the mccann case, but the police investigation was conducted thoroughly and efficiently resulting in a judicial court case. Unlike the mccaan case, whereby the mccanns have dictated how the investigation should be run. There is more than enough evidence for mccanns to go to trial without a body. The case of Leonor Cirpriano went to court without a body, again many similarities to the mccaan case.

    From the beginning Kate and Gerry have been evasive. Why there was any need to delete their mobile phone messages BEFORE Madeleine’s supposed abduction. On the 3rd their maid was told the room did not need cleaning. What happened to the missing shower curtain and blue holdall? The comment Kate said Madeleine made at breakfast on 3rd ‘mummy why did you and daddy not come last night etc etc’ this was to place Madeleine alive on the 3rd. No photographs of Madeleine on boat trip or beach on 3rd! Suspected forged entry in crèche records for 3rd, Charlotte Pennington mentioning twins were not in apartment that night on 3rd. The collection boxes set up in hotels around the Algarve. Gaspar’s and Smith’s statements, Julia McKenzie replaced by the odious Clarence Mitchell and Gerry’s frequent flights back to UK. Comment by one of the Tapas woman that ‘Gerry was the one who kept calm and could think ahead etc etc’, the sniffer dog’s evidence. Every day he made entries on his blog, how did he have a mind to do such things if his daughter really had been abducted?

    Gerry is cunning but he is NOT clever, if he was clever we would say Madeleine who? There would be no mention of her, no forums, no discussions but the internet is awash with sites, growing by the day all demanding the same thing ‘Justice for Madeleine’. The banned book of Dr Amaral has served to enlighten the world of corrupt and greed within our society and it was never allowed to be sold in UK.

    Banning Dr Amaral from speaking about the case effectively means he cannot give interviews. Carter Ruck claim ‘They are the most feared libel lawyers’ innocent parents would have no need to take such drastic measures, but guilty ones would.

    Murdoch’s press slandering Dr Amaral and feeding the abduction theories to the gullible public; this is the man who wants to control SKY news!!!

    Cancer charities allowing Gerry mccann to take part, people do not choose to have cancer, but the mccanns chose to leave their children and then lie about it.

    PACT exhibiting Kate mccann’s artwork quoting Churchill and Einstein. Kate and Gerry never miss a photo opportunity or a chance of making more money. Madeleine’s photographs ‘copyright’. Madeleine’s tacky on-line store.
    The purpose of the fraudulent fund is ‘to provide financial support to the mccanns’.

    They kept the body hidden for 3 weeks then transported it in the scenic Gerry and Kate would have been unable to dispose of Madeleine due to media attention so family and friends were flown in. John Mcann readily gave up his job to work on the Madeleine Fund; how he could be so confident she would not be found and he would be unemployed!

    The time has come for the proper authorities to take charge of this case and bring it to its rightful conclusion. Justice for Madeleine and Dr Amaral.

  10. Hi Anon #1, there is another huge difference in the case. Sharon was found alive. I knew she would be and said so at the time. It appears that in England if you have a nice house reporters believe everything you say and probably social services do too.

  11. Anon at 9 - well said. We have had enough of the Mcscams.

  12. Good point Fencesitter@4

    "I am not sure if Kate McCann would have known about these things either, but someone quickly made sure she did"

    It looks like someone made sure they were untouchable from every angle from the very beginning and this continues to this day.

  13. One word describes the Matthews case - copycat. The similarities are no coincidence, IMHO. Did Matthews see a way to make money and copied the McCanns right down to the teddy bear (cuddlecat)? I have always thought that this was a copycat case. It is very strange that seldom if ever have the two been mentioned in the same story despite their similarities. Why should that be?

  14. One mother from a council house on a rundown estate
    The other from a mansion with a drive complete with 5 bar gate
    One is a saint, the other a sinner
    One is a loser, the other a winner

    But oh! what a picture the media paint
    Between evil Karen and devout Kate
    We praise one and vilify the other
    But is there any difference between either mother?

    Both made money from their daughters plight
    Both withheld information that would provide an insight
    Both used their daughter as a marketing campaign
    Both set out to achieve lots of money and fame

    Both neglected their children and left them alone
    Both ran a dysfunctional home
    Both placed themselves above their childrens needs
    Both were consumed by avarice and greed

    Both lied from the very start
    And actually neither is that smart
    So where did Karen get the idea?
    I'm sure we would all like to hear

    But the main difference is, no dog detected Shannon was dead
    And fortunately she was found alive hidden under a bed
    Kate refused to answer any questions to get Madeleine back
    So ask yourself why exactly is that?

    "I was there and know more than you"
    Of Kate and Karen nothing could be more true
    So one has been investigated and is serving time
    The other is still living on the profits of crime

  15. Anon 9. "On the 3rd their maid was told the room did not need cleaning" Is this a fact? Is it in the files? Where can i find that maid testemony ?

  16. I'm #10. I meant to say Shannon, sorry.

  17. RIPM @ 14 - brilliant verse and so true.

  18. to 15 Front Line “After Maddie” - Video Reportage http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/front-line-after-madie-video-reportage.html [sorry for not having yet completed the translation of that reportage]

    «Voice Over: Maria Júlia, the mother of the two sacked employees, ended up asking recently the dismissal from the Ocean Club, after 16 years of working there. It was her who cleaned for the last time the McCann family apartment, just the day before to the girls disappearance.

    Maria Júlia (former Ocean Club employee) – When I went there on Wednesday [2nd May 2007], they were there. It was they who opened the door for me, they told me to get in and then they told me that they were leaving. They even told me something about the balcony… yes… I understood that they were going to the balcony, and even thought they were going to the balcony. But no, they really left. They went out from that door, that door…the door that gives access to the garden [the balcony double glazed door] and that was it, they went out, never again… It was the only time that I was with them.»

    and statement at http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post154.html#p154


    «In regards to her duties directly related to the apartment, she states that the last time she entered there was on the Wednesday, the day before the facts, more precisely on the 02 of May, where she carried out cleaning. Questioned, says that contrary to what has been established, on Thursday, the 03rd, she was doing something else, and did not have the opportunity to pick up the rubbish bags;

    . She remembers that when she entered the apartment (A), on Wednesday, that inside she came across the parents. After being allowed to enter, she carried out her work, as they had already left. While she was there, she did not come across any child, supposing that they were in the crèche;

    . During the time she carried out her work, she remembers having seen, given the scenario presented, that the couple slept in the room opposite the entrance way, where she came across a children’s cot. This room gives access to an exterior garden which is called the ground floor, and to a veranda. In the room closest to the door of the apartment, there was a bed pushed to the wall (where she assumed the missing child slept) and a second cot. All these beds were ‘messy’ and this told her that they had been used. She states further that in the room closest to the door, was another bed, which was not used;

    . On the Friday following, the day after the disappearance of the child, she states that due to the police activity, she did not clean Apartment A;

    . Questioned, states that on the days preceding the facts, she only entered the apartments to carry out her duties, and did not come across any element/object or strange fact that called her attention and which could be directly related to the disappearance; »

  19. Wonderful posts here, showing that the world knows more today, about Mccann's lie then in the summer 2007. Banning Amaral book, silencing him, preventing a book to be translated in english did not change anything on Mccann's saga. It is growing day after day the amount of people who don't buy Mccann's circus, don't believe on any abduction and were sure about the Mccann's being guilt and behind the death of their daughter.
    And if we ask that simple question: From who is the fault? From the Mccann's, is the answer. Their behaviour, their strategy, their arrogance, the way that they insult our inteligence, the way that they insult the police, put them on that situation- The most hated parents of a missing child. Normal people don't feel any sympathy to them. Only con people like them, support their events.

    Mitchell anounced more then one year ago, a huge support from Angelina Jolie. He said, as a mother she was very touched by Kate pain. Yah!!! We can see, how touched Angelina was... she never showed any support to the mccann's, otherwise they will jump on that celebritie as lions, to fool her fans. THERE IS NO DIFERENCE BETWEEN THEM, KAREN MATHEWS OR LEONOR CIPRIANO. Bad parents, can be found in all the strates of the society.

  20. Thank you RIPM, we should do a compilation of your poetry in a new blog section, what do you think? kind regards, Joana

  21. RIPM #14 - Beautifully put - thank you!!

  22. He! He! Pedroso is not going to recieve the compensation he asked for. The majority of the judges think that the judge Rui Teixeira did not committed an error when he decide to put Pedroso under preventive prison. At least, there is some justice for the victims of casa Pia.
    Madeleine deserve a judge like Rui Teixeira with courage to break walls and look at the victims like what they are- victims with rights. And when all the other rights were lost, justice must prevail.

  23. Check this one out, including the videos & spot the similarities with the spins, lies, and rumours that the McCanns, their family, their Tapas friends, their media PR's, UK media hacks, dodgy private dicks, rent-a-cops, paid opinion-slingers and menacing lawyers said, did and did not do.

    To all of those who have defamed the Portuguese Judiciary Police, the Portuguese people and mocked the Portuguese Justice system, here is a small preview of your pink future.

    Extract: Another Trial For Amanda Knox

    «Now, Amanda Knox is back in court. She faces slander charges against the police, who she claims hit her during the questioning a few days after the killing in November 2007. Italian police strongly denied that Knox was subjected to any physical abuse, which is supported by an external inquiry. If Knox is found guilty of slander, she could face another six years in jail, on top of the 26 years she is currently serving.

    Knox’s defense lawyers filed a motion to prevent the presiding judge, Claudia Matteini, from hearing Knox’s slander case because of her involvement in the preliminary hearings into the murder. A hearing today will take the final decision about whether Matteini is the appropriate judge to hear this case. The trial is likely to start on October 1.

    Amanda’s parents, Edda Mellas and Curt Knox, have a court date of their own: They are scheduled to appear July 7, also on accounts of slander. They face heavy fines and jail time for repeating their daughter’s claims against the police.

    What is particularly unnerving about this case, is the sense that much of the testimony is contradictory: All three convicted of the murder deny their involvement, but cannot explain their inconsistent testimonies, and keep changing their account of what happened on the night of the murder. Barbie Latza Nadeau, a journalist who has followed the case from the start and has always provided excellent coverage and analysis, asks ten questions that Amanda Knox has never answered, even though they could set her free. That she never addressed them, indicates that her involvement in the murder may have been substantial.

    Whether the lies aim to conceal that the convicted did partake in the murder – which frankly didn’t work – or whether they intend to cover up something else, remains a mystery. Any hints regarding the truth in this matter, even if they come from a separate trial, will be of high interest.»


  24. When I look at Kate Mccann I see Karen Matthews all the time, just because the Mccanns are Doctors and got Government help to cover it up, imo it makes no difference to me and lots of others as well I expect THERE IS NO WAY OF DRESSING THIS UP AT ALL........KATE MCCANN = KAREN MATTHEWS.

  25. RIPM ,Wow,if only we could get your brilliant posts "out there"for the ones who STILL think Kate Macaan IS sooooooooooooo sweet and innocent !!!MAYBE you could be the one who could pull the wool from their eyes,remember when she told her mother that if she wasn,t so "attractive"(her words not mine) people wouldn,t be so doubting of her!!!you give me hope in a dire situation RIPM PLEASE,KEEP YOUR ASTUTE OBSERVATIONS COMING,again I say BRILLIANT.Even reminding those macaan believers that THE DOGS were also used in the hunt for a missing little girl Shannon,BUT OF COURSE they found no cavader,WHY,because SHE WAS STILL ALIVE,just a minor detail in the poor Maddie investigation ,well in the opinion of the macaans and their band of supporters!



  27. lynn @25

    'Even reminding those macaan believers that THE DOGS were also used in the hunt for a missing little girl Shannon,BUT OF COURSE they found no cavader,WHY,because SHE WAS STILL ALIVE,just a minor detail in the poor Maddie investigation ,well in the opinion of the macaans and their band of supporters!'

    Hello Lynn
    Yes cadaver dogs were used in the search for Shannon & yes they did make a positive alert to a bed. Sky news reported from outside Leeds Crown Court "At that point [when the dog alerted] the police believed Shannon was dead." However, it turned out that the bed was bought from a charity shop but the original owner, an elderly man, had died in it. Sky news pulled that report within the hour & it was never mentioned again, presumably because of the McCann case.

  28. ANON-9! I am so glad that I am not alone with my thoughts! Agree with every single word of yours! Tell me what makes Mccans so special!
    I remember Kate asked her mother in the early days after her daughter "was taken!" if she'd look better in the public eyes if she ... had larger breasts!!!!! How it could be ever possible! To be such stupid cynical hen!

  29. I always thought that Karen Matthews had actually said she got the idea from the McCanns.

    At least she didn't kill her child in her copycat attempt at a faked abduction, but no doubt somebody will some day unless the truth of the McCann case is exposed and their Fund stopped.

  30. Joana,
    Thats a brilliant idea to do RIPM's posts as a compilation I always enjoy reading them, so much effort goes into them - they are marvellous. Well done RIPM keep 'em coming.

  31. These two bad excuses for mothers even have the same initials 'KM'. Was that noticed by Karen Matthews and helped give her the idea?

    She did ask the McCanns for money when Shannon was supposedly abducted, but needless to say they didn't cough up, not even from their own purse. No surprise, they want every penny for themselves. Or, does it take one to know one perhaps, and they weren't fooled for one minute. She did say Kate was sympathetic, but no can do, no money for Karen. Dear sympathetic Kate. Everybody say AH!!

  32. RIPM @14
    I agree with Joana, please compile your brilliant poems in a blog or blog section, they say so well just what needs to be said!

    I gasp every time I see that photo of the very cheerful smiling parents holding "that" T.shirt... and indeed the 2 "KM's" are well worth each other.

  33. poster 27,I didn,t realise they had found cavader,but the very fact it was traced to an old man dying on the mattress the dogs alerted to,once again makes me so angry that once again the dogs were RIGHT !!!those smugg macaans really must look in their mirrors and think ,"how can so many people really be so dumb"and then laugh all the way to the bank!!!

  34. At least the British media is talking about "cheating on the public and on the police".
    Is Karen Matthews sueing the Guardian?

  35. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  36. @ 1? Police incompetence? - political pressure from the most inept, and possibly most corrupt, uk government in living memory (shallow careerists IMO - discredited reps of a party I've voted for all my life - but that's by the by), massive media manipulation from day one, and an extremely sympathetic world-wide audience (including me) - duped completely by a sick fairy story. All this and more had something to do with that 'incompetence'. This case is unique.

    @ 9? - 'thorough and efficient' police investigation in the Mathews case? Actually it's generally considered to be an embarrassing balls-up. In the documentary (BBC, I believe though not sure), we are informed that the plods eventually entered Shannon's uncle's house and heard a voice from beneath a bed saying (I paraphrase) 'stop you're hurting me'. This was the moment the police discovered the missing child, for the voice was that of shannon mathews. The elated police officers then took Shannon to a waiting police car where they asked her if she knew the whereabouts of her uncle, 'Why yes' replied Shannon, 'he was there beneath the bed, holding me. (again I paraphrase, but you get the gist). The police went back inside to apprehend the uncle (who I presume was still beneath the bed). Duhhh, who did they think Shannon was speaking to from beneath the bed? Who was 'hurting' her?

    Keystone Cops? Ya just couldn't make it up.

    Rubbish investigations? Come on,guys - Let's try and keep things in perspective, eh?

    bob the bluebird

  37. Iberia, the scales of justice in Portugal are heavily tilted by the fingers of the Portuguese government. It is clear as day that when it comes to cases that have connections to the ruling government the most incredulous decisions will be rendered by the Portuguese justice system.

    I think if Madeleine McCann had died in Britain, the same people would intervene to cover up the affair and protect the McCanns. In my opinion, being made a political matter, even if the Portuguese police had been thorough their hands would still have been tied and the couple would still have been set free.

    Although both cases involve acts of fraud, they are quite different. The English police were informed of the whereabouts of Shannon, the English police did not solve the case because of their detective prowess. The case involves their own citizens, citizens of a lower financial class with no influential friends. There was no massive international media campaign to discredit the English police. The governments of two nations were not involved. And the biggest difference is that the Madeleine case is at best a manslaughter case and at worst a murder case.

    The Shannon case proved to me that even people of average intelligence with no formal education can see through the McCann charade. As for Shannon's mother not having the Brain power to pull it off, I think that it was more a case of not having the connections than the Brains.

    Anonymous 22, I just read about Mr. Pedroso's affair in the newspaper PUBLICO. I don't think Mr. Pedroso ever thought that he would be compensated, this is more of an attempt on his part to clear his image. It's the first time I became acquainted with his case and it is another shocking example of what's seriously wrong with the Portuguese justice system.


  38. Anon @ 9 - you raise very valid points and a well thought through post.

  39. RIPM poems are very, very good - I especially like the one 'OH YES. Wish I could write poetry like that.

  40. RIPM great great posts.

    Justice exists then? It has been done to Shannon hasnt it?
    I believe, it will be done to Madeleine.Soon or...later but it will be done because the more the mccanns claim their innocence in the face of all the evidence,the more guilt they carry.


  41. Guerra@37, The reason I considered Matthews did not have the brain power to pull it off was because she had not thought the whole thing through. Copying the McCanns with Tee shirts, cuddly toys and appeals for cash was the easy bit but the big different was Shannon was still alive and able to tell what happened. I wonder what Matthews would have done next when the brain finally kicked in and she thought about this. I am just pleased the police found her in time even if they were keystone cops as Anon 36 suggests.

    I think we are all convinced that the McCanns have connections and were very quickly advised on actions to take as cover ups (eg deleting text messages etc.) None of us know from what level this help came,(political,establishment??) and why it was given. However I do not think that even if Matthews had the same connections any help would have been given to a "pre planned abduction scam" but help to protect someone following an accident or manslaughter is IMO entirely possible. I also feel that if this help came from the highest level as I suspect then the possibility of it being investigated is zero and that is why the whole Tapas group feel confident they are safe.

    I have said on another thread that pressure should be put on more minor players in this,such as Nanny Pennington who gave a different story to the press than she did in her police statement. PROVE just one person to be a liar and it could crack the rest IMO and the pact of silence may well go out of the window in order to save their own necks.

  42. FENCESITTER @ 41 - SPOT ON. pressure should be put on the minor players ultimately we will find out just who is involved and helping with this cover-up or even better re-open the case.

  43. Fencesitter @41. Excellent post.

  44. I think it detracts from this site to use doctored, photoshopped pictures. There is no need for it. You haven't even done it to Matthews, who is a proven criminal.

  45. Great posts, 9 and RIPM! 9- Do you have the reference to the missing shower curtain? Does this tie in with the media report of the bag found near the airport with various clothing items? The PJ files refer to this report as a media invention, but I'd like to have a look again at the information.

  46. Fencesitter- My thoughts exactly. A lot of minor players would soon crack under pressure, but may need to be given witness protection status. There could be real dangers for them in giving information.

  47. 'Amanda’s parents, Edda Mellas and Curt Knox, have a court date of their own: They are scheduled to appear July 7, also on accounts of slander. They face heavy fines and jail time for repeating their daughter’s claims against the police.'

    About Amanda parents I remember the way they tried to involve Hilary clinton on the case... They ask her support trying to frame Italian police and grab support for Amanda. Hilary did not buy their lies and the media campaign died imediately.

    One day, the Mccann's and their machine will face justice also regarding what they said about the portugueses and PJ. Socrates time is at END and their spinny pink-time will END with him.
    Socrates lost all the credibility in the country. He will end-up as a liar Prime Minister, who used the power to keep his friends in high positions and prevent justice to work. The investigation done by the parliament prove it, no matter if nothing hapen to him. His lies will not last forever, same as the Mccann's. The main support for the Mccann's came from portuguese government and British government. Over the time this become clear. It is a shame that portuguese government worked against PJ and put the reputation of the country in a so bad position.

    when the fall starts, everything will be showed and will fall with them: In Portugal, Pedroso lost his case in court and today a PJ inspector say's at the papers that the photo showed to the childs who recognised him, as the abuser, was much clear then the one used after, in court. Means the photo was manipulated to be used in court.
    MANIPULATION OF EVIDENCES are the main words for all of this liars.
    Amanda and her boyfriend tried hard a game like the one Mccann's played with police and the Media, at the beginning, when the body of Meredith was discovered( Many times I made that comparison). She also put a scapegoat in the crime scene, but she had no chance to manipulate evidences and start a cover-up. Her pass and her pages at the Internet were investigated and exposed and they help the police to understand the personality of that young lady, who used to be very perverted. Mccann's pass should be investigated and exposed. I believe, many information is hide behind all the tools PJ was prevented to use.
    THE PORTUGUESE POLICE IS VERY COMPETENT. The incompetence lyes on the power who, behind scenes, work to discredit the police and the evidences they found. I always had the impression that Mccann's case against Amaral book, was used by the portuguese politicians with troubles in justice, to light a yellow card to the PJ inspectors, saying ' Look, this is what can hapen with who try to touch our interesses'. THE FORBIDDEN OF THE BOOK AND THE SILENCE OF AMARAL BY A COURT, ON THE SITUATION THAT HAPENNED, have no any logical explanation.... Only SCAPEGOAT and CONVENNIENCE for portuguese politics, can explain. HOW CAN SOMEBODY WIN A CASE WITH ALL THE WITNESSES AND EVIDENCES GOING AGAINST? And Isabel Duarte, fade after her last claims outside Lisbon Court. Her agressivity fade with her lies. No courage now, to appear on TVS or newpapers... to avoid inconvennient questions.
    And aparently, Aragao runaway back to Madeira after loosing Leandro case against Amaral.
    We, who sick justice for Madeleine and for all abused childs, anonimously or not, WE NEVER GIVE-UP. We need an organization like the Greenpeace, made to help childs like Madeleine achieve justice. An organization with power and courage to expose the liars, the corruption and the manipulation of evidences, no matter which politics or lawyers were involved. Madeleine need that organization, not the CEOP or the AMBER ALERT. The UNITED NATIONS CHILDS RIGHTS were not ennough for childs like Madeleine or the USA Beauty Queen JB Ramsey.

  48. The investigation of Shannon Mathews was a joke and one of the most embarassing jokes for British police. After weeks of a massive search with lots of people and ressources involved, the police had nothing to help them solve the case. During the process, Karen Mathews was able to play her fairy tale with Media and the police and the wonderful SPIN- SPREAD tabloid, THE SUN, even made a offer... a Ramson. When Karen M. decide her plan, she was absolute sure that THE SUN will buy her story and will help her balancing her finances. No matter if she cannot set a Fund like the Mccann's, if she manage to grab the money offered by THE SUN, will be already a great business for her and her partners. During a mounth they work hard to fool the police and the papers. Her plan was ruinned by her neighbours who saw her packing everyday a bag with clothes for Shannon. The neighbours reported what they saw to the police and this is how the police solved the case. If Karen had the money the Mccann's got in the Fund, she probably will spend some buying the silence and the cover-up of her neighbours and poor Shannon will end-up somewhere damped like Madeleine.
    Somebody break Karen Pact and exposed her. This is what PJ need to solve Madeleine case after grabing a lot of evidences and doing a competent investigation. In 'Las mananas de 4' a painel made by independent investigators and criminal experts answered the question: " do you think PJ made mistakes and errors during the investigation?" with: " PJ HAVE DONE WHAT IS SUPOSED TO BE DONE ON THAT SITUATIONS". Means, independent experts gave credibility to the investigation and claim that Mccann's should face charges. THIS IS WHY THE INTERVIEW WAS NOT SHOWED ALL- the programe will damage the image of the Mccann's in Spain and abroad.

  49. 44 The McCanns are criminals who simply ran from justice and were allowed to get away with it.

    I think your post is unnecessary and irrelevant.

  50. Fencesitter @ #41, I believe Tanner is the main "minor" player pressure should be put on which is why I'm hoping Murat's case against her goes to full trial whatever the outcome!


  51. Sorry Guerra, but I think if Madeleine died in UK and the investigation was just a British investigation, the Mccann's will end-up charged like Karen Mathews. I don't believe the government will offer them Mitchell services or allow them to set any Fund. Their image will end in the tabloides as the most evil parents in Britain.
    One day, we will realise that when they went to PDL they are just two ordinary doctors with same financial problems, as many people in the world- having to count mounthly salaries to see if there is ennough to pay the house and the day life. This is why they choose Mark warnner Resort in May, when the price of Holidays in Algarve were low and afordable for them.
    They were lucky because the case hapenned in a foreign country and imediately they start a plan to grab help from UK, using some well connected people which they know. BUT IN FACT, THEIR POWER BORN WITH THE CRIME AND THEIR PLAN.
    Imagine if a case hapenned abroad with a portuguese couple who lost a child. The couple immediately will try to involve some portuguese authorities, even if they don't know anybody with real power. There is always somebody who knows a Major from a closeby Municipality and the channel starts, special if was not an accident.
    Thinking that the Mccann's had any power or good connections before going to PDL, just help the Mccann's. That is the message they and their spin-machine want to pass to the public. Like that, many witnesses retain what they know or what they saw, worried by the Mccann's power. A POWER WHICH THEY DON'T HAVE, THIS IS WHY THEY HIRE LAWYERS FEW DAYS AFTER MADELEINE DISAPPEARED. If they had power, they will don't need that lawyers...They will act like portuguese PM, just waiting for their power to work with help of their friends. Will be time ennough for courageous journalists to come out and show all Mccann's strategy. Even if that journalists were not from UK or Portugal. Could be from any other country in Europe or USA and they will get the story of their life. ALL THE WITNESSES WHICH ARE SLEEPING NOW IN A LETARGIC BED OF WORRIES WILL JUMP ON THE STORY TO TELL WHAT THEY KNOW.
    Mccann's power started with Mitchell followed by Carter-Ruck. BUT THIS POWER HAS A GOLDEN PRICE. If people stop feeding the Fund, their power ends. The last assalts of Gerry and Kate, at the Cancer events and e-bay, showed from where came their power- FROM THE MONEY RAISED IN A FRAUDULENT WAY. Without money, no Mitchell or Carter-Ruck or isabel Duarte services. THEY ALL EXPLORE THE IMAGE AND THE TRAGEDY OF A LITTLE BRITISH GIRL.

  52. IMO it's not too late to apply pressure on Tanner. She is no different to Amanda Knox who pointed the finger at the innocent Patrick Lumumba and then sat quietly while his life was torn apart. How do these people live with themselves?


  53. And Mitchell tried to give power also to the mother of Scarlett Keeling, the 15-year-old Devon girl found dead in a beach in Goa. She was neglected by her mother in a very stupid holidays and end-up murdered by local mans. There was no Socrates or Freeport in Goa, then no way for Scarlet mother to start a Fund and start her lift into the power world.

    Mitchell have that genetic condition of atracting evil people. Is a kind of disease spread by money virus. Stop the money... stop the virus... kill the infection.

  54. Fencesitter do you debate on the Sky forum?.

  55. ShuBob@50 I agree with you but I consider Tanner a major player in this, not a minor one. Re the Murat case, I have been wondering for a long time why we never hear anything further about that. I know it takes a long time for cases to be heard but I would have thought a date would have been set by now at the very least. A bit of a worry IMO, I just hope Murat has not settled secretly out of court. If he has then clearing his name is obviously not so important as cash.

  56. I just found the following article about a body washed up in America in 2007 the clothes the girl was wearing are what the nanny describes Madeleine wearing especially the light up tennis shoes.
    ‘ As for the type of shoes she was wearing at the time, 'she wore tennis shoes', she thinks 'they were light in color, and the shoes had lights along the side of the sole, the sort which lit up every time she stepped on the ground....'**END OF STATEMENT**

    Then this article The article is very long so I have copy and pasted just the following.
    ‘Police have examined the body of a young girl washed ashore in the United States for links to Madeleine McCann after evidence that it could have been swept across from Europe.
    The body of a girl, named “Baby Grace” by police, was found by a fisherman, crammed into a blue plastic storage box on a beach in Galveston Bay, Texas, last week.
    The description of the blonde-haired girl led to police contacting Interpol, the FBI and Portuguese detectives to consider the possibility that the girl could be Madeleine.
    No trace has been found of Madeleine since she was reported missing from her bed in Praia Da Luz on May 3, just six days before her fourth birthday.
    A post-mortem examination found that Baby Grace had been dead for at least two weeks and sustained a skull fracture. She was white, between 2 and 3 years old with long blonde or light brown wavy hair, and was wearing a pink skirt and shirt and white light-up tennis shoes.’ Mr Tuttoilmondo said that Gulf Intercoastal Waterway, where the box containing the body was found, is a major commercial port, and Galveston a popular tourist destination with a transient population.
    Galveston County Crime Stoppers has set up a memorial fund to pay for the little girl's funeral and an account to offer rewards for anyone who helps investigators lead them to the killer.
    This article is from November 2007 and considering the duplicity involved with the mccanns I did wonder if this really was Madeleine, and the cover up to protect the mccanns continued.

  57. Anon 48, just to add to your message, a neighbour who lived below the flat where Shannon was found heard a child's footsteps for a number of days on the ceiling and knew there was no child living at the flat before Shannon went missing and became suspicious, she then informed the police.

    It's a pity a few of the McCanns neighbours don't come forward with information regarding the McCanns but I expect all of the neighbourhood have been Carter *ucked.

  58. There is no doubt that had this case happened in the UK the cops would have jumped straight in and charged the McCanns after the findings of the dogs, even if only with neglect. They would not have bought Gerry saying there is no evidence of harm to Madeleine when there so clearly is.

    Those dogs are relied on one hundred per cent. They are trusted and have been tried out time after time and never been wrong. They are telling the investigators that Madeleine is dead and there was no abduction.

    McCann can try and discredit those dogs but the cops know the truth. And the McCanns know they know. That's why they have tried to discredit the UK and the Portuguese cops as well, and will continue to do so. It is about time somebody in authority came out and made a statement to stop the McCanns' abduction spin, and stop their soliciting for Funds under the pretext of looking for a live Madeleine.

    Also needing to be urgently investigated is the cop who interviewed Payne, who has himself been accused of sexual offences. In the light of this, and given the concerns of the Gaspars about Payne and suspected paedophile behaviour in their statements, Payne should be reinterviewed at once.

    Surely the case could be reopened on the basis of the Gaspar statements alone which came to the PJ investigators far too late in the investigation. An investigation which had been led astray by the discredited sighting of Jane Tanner and which had given alibis to all the Tapas friends, especially Gerry McCann and her partner. This meant too much time had been taken up looking for the phantom she said she saw, and which the McCanns are still spinning as fact.

    When are these characters going to be stopped! It is getting beyond a joke when the facts and circumstances of the investigation are known. Come on Portugal get this case reopened and make all the Tapas friends suspects for a start. They no doubt should have been made suspects when it was discovered that Madeleine was dead and there was no abductor. Maybe that would have got their cooperation instead of them doing whatever they pleased.

  59. I like that warning: "Children left unattended will be sold to the Circus". This is exactly what Mccann's still doing with their little girl.

  60. 51, Bravo! Brilliant!

  61. Hi everyone,
    Check out this interesting story :

    British couple jailed in Spain for murdering baby daughter

    on this link:


    Best regards to all,


  62. Anon@54, No I do not debate of the sky forum, infact I have never even looked at it

  63. To anon 56,
    I suggest you read this:
    The little girl the police called "Baby Grace" was identified.

  64. @fencesitter 55

    You're confusing civil law with criminal law (and denigrating Robert Murat in the process!)

    A CRIMINAL case cannot be "settled out of court."

  65. Of course the McCanns are just ordinary folk. It's common for British citizens to be escorted by the British police in a foreign land, and to have lengthy phone conversations with their prime minister. Just how many thousands were spent by the English police flying to and from Portugal? Some political figures felt so sorry for this couple that they put their careers on hold just to become their spokesperson. Some great hearted person even gave these common folk forensic police manuals, probably to distract them from their grief. How long was it before they were represented by a public relations firm? I guess, anyone can call up the pope and arrange to meet him. How fortunate they were to have the support of millionaires, one of them even vowed that he would support them till he died. My word, it is astounding that such ordinary people have a vice grip on the media of the commonwealth of nations. Even despite the work of the dogs and being formally declared suspects in a criminal investigation, British politicians still found it necessary to accompany these plebeians to the European parliament for the purpose of, you guessed it, promoting a child welfare cause.

    The poor dogs their reputation in Britain is almost as bad as Mr. Amaral's, ever since they smelled death in that apartment.
    The image of these dogs no longer adorns British police websites. Maybe the British public shouldn't be so hard on these dogs, maybe their work was compromised by the smell of sardines in Portugal.

    When is a person not ordinary? When they know the private lives of influential people.

    Is this what you were told to do?

    "You will try to convince them that the McCanns are ordinary people and that there is no cover up by the government, it doesn't matter if you say that they are guilty."

    "You will try to convince them that Madeleine is still alive, this will discredit the dogs. Tell them that the McCanns are hiding her somewhere"

    "There will be so much confusion, they won't know what to believe."


  66. To anon 44

    I think that what really «detracted» [read diverted] the search and investigation for Madeleine McCann in May 2007, was the abusive spread of «doctored» [read false] informations and statements; the altering of evidences: ex. a picture of Madeleine McCann made known as the «last photo» with photoshop. Furthermore, the abhorrent creation of a Non-Charitable Fund on 15 May 2007 «Madeleine's Fund: Leaving no stone unturned LTD» using Madeleine's eye and face as a trade-marketing brand [in the words of Dr. Gerald McCann «in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy»] and the subsequent opening of a «Find Madeleine» site and merchandise on-line shop [www.bringmadeleinehome.com created on May 9, 2007] whose list of directors is by now 70% comprised of McCann family members and whose aims were broken more than once by paying the McCanns' house mortgages is much more execrable by any standards than a photoshopped image, based on a real one [the McCann obscene smiles promoting a T-shirt with Madeleine's face in early May are not a photoshop creation!] which points out to the McCanns' money-related «wider agenda»; an image that trough satire hints at the McCann couple priorities even after they were warned about all the dangers that a media campaign could bring upon Madeleine if she had been, as per their unproven and unsubstantiated thesis of abduction, abducted by an opportunistic paedophile, or ordered to be kidnapped by a ring of paedophiles, or fill with numerous suspects, etc, etc.

    I could have placed other images, like the «undoctered» and very real photos of the Kate and Gerry McCann smiling and laughing like starlets on the 12 May 2007, just 9 days after the alleged kidnapping of their daughter, who at that time was at the hands of a paedophile, surely not a happy thought. The 12 May 2007 would have been Madeleine's fourth birthday.

    Watch the Photos:

  67. To anon 44 Read the related articles:

    May 18, 2007 - 'Madeleine Web site gets 55 million hits'

    January 10, 2008 - 'Madeleine search was 'hijacked' by McCann publicity machine, Portuguese police claim' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-507182/Madeleine-search-hijacked-McCann-publicity-machine-Portuguese-police-claim.html

    «Slim chance of survival: Gerry McCann now concedes that it is unlikely he will ever see Madeleine again

    The search for Madeleine McCann has been hijacked by her parents' "gigantic propaganda machine", Portuguese police have claimed.

    Officers lashed out against Kate and Gerry McCann's slick PR operation after learning they had granted an interview to glossy magazine Vanity Fair, and could even make £2million from a film about their daughter's disappearance.

    A source close to the investigation said detectives were furious about the latest publicity, which came as formal requests for the McCanns' friends to be reinterviewed were sent to Britain.

    Police are also skeptical about "a surge" of new witnesses traced by the couple's private detective agency, Metodo 3, the Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manha reported.

    The unnamed source said: "Who do the McCanns think they are?

    "The discovery of new witnesses in the last few weeks have led authorities to believe they are battling against a gigantic propaganda machine.

    "The McCanns have some very powerful people on their side - millionaires, celebrities and even politicians."

    A second official dismissed the work of the couple's detective agency as "diversion tactics", aimed at distracting police away from the McCanns, who are still official suspects in the case.

    He said: "Their tactics are really beginning to annoy us. Whenever a decisive date approaches the company takes a new rabbit out of the hat."

    The attacks are a clear indication of the anger that the McCanns' publicity campaign has caused in Portugal, where police investigations are usually carried out in secret.

    They came as Gerry McCann revealed he is tortured by guilt that Madeleine's disappearance is his fault.

    In an interview with Vanity Fair, he also admitted there was only a "slim" chance his daughter was alive - the closest he has come to conceding the fact.

    "I wish I hadn't gone to the tapas bar," Mr McCann told the society magazine. "I wish I'd stayed in the apartment that night. I wish I'd stayed in the room when I checked on her five minutes longer.

    (...) Clarence Mitchell, the family's spokesman, said Mr McCann had not been paid by Vanity Fair and had instead requested donations to the fund in return for cooperation with future projects.

    He said the Find Madeleine campaign was to take on a "commercial dimension" to keep it in the black. It emerged on Tuesday that the couple could make £2 million from a film about Madeleine's disappearance.

    Other projects could include a book deal and even TV chat shows which the McCanns have shunned in the past for fear of seeming like celebrities.

    The £1.2million fund to finance the search for Madeleine has been halved by the cost of hiring private detectives, running adverts and paying the family's living costs.

    Only £600,000 remains and the balance is expected to drop to only £346,000 by April and possibly zero by June.»

  68. (continuation)

    'McCanns used fund to pay mortgage' http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7068760.stm

    From PR News:

    In September 12, 2007 - 'Update: Madeleine Fund will not pay for Kate and Gerry McCann Legal Costs'

    «We told you a couple of hours ago that Madeleine fund trustees were having a meeting today at 6.pm to come to a decision as to whether parents Kate and Gerry McCann could use the campaign money for their legal costs.

    The trustees have said that no money from the Madeleine Fund will be used to fund her parent’s legal costs. Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann are facing an ever increasing legal coast as the couple was named as suspects in the Madeleine disappearance case. The couple has now appointed top lawyers since they were charged by Portuguese police.

    Kate and Gerry McCann have maintained that they would never use the Madeleine Fund to pay for their legal costs.(...)»

    In October 29, 2007 - 'Gerry and Kate McCann Used Madeleine Fund For Mortgage Payments'

    «(...) Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCann family has confirmed that Gerry and Kate McCann used money from the Madeleine fund to pay their mortgage. According to recent reports, at least two mortgage payments have been paid for with the fund.

    The Madeleine fund was set up in order to find Madeleine, and support the family. But, after the McCanns were named official suspects, they decided against using it for personal payments.

    Clarence Mitchell said, “The fund has always had the ability to assist the family financially if necessary, and they’ve only used it to pay for two mortgage payments, earlier this year. When they were made arguido, it stopped, which was a mutual decision on the part of the fund and the McCanns – they were happy to accept that their changed status meant they were no longer entitled to that assistance.”

    The Find Madeleine Fund has earned over £1 million in public donations to help find the missing four-year-old.

    The fund was called into question after it was revealed that about one third of the money had been used for the McCanns’ living costs, publicity fees and to pay staff. The family hit out at rumours suggesting they would be using the fund for legal fees.

    Mr Mitchell has said that he would not be paid from the Find Madeleine Fund but from ‘private financial backers’ to the McCanns.(...)»

    More on the internet....

  69. The McCanns, ordinary folk? Yeah, right...and I'm the Queen of England!
    How many other cases do you know of ordinary people who had the misfortune of having their child missing being classified by the authorities as "a matter of national security"???
    How do you explain the refusal to divulge the content of the comunications between the authorities from the U.K. and Portugal, because their content could potentially damage the diplomatic relations between two sovereign and "allied" countries???

  70. Joana 67 - IMHO you would do better to only use undoctored images on this site. There are enough of those to astonish us, and many of them raise a question in people's minds: Is that possibly real? So mixing real and unreal will dilute the impact of the real images! The image to which #44 refers, is a photoshopped version of a real picture which in and of itself (together with the date it was taken) would make many stop and think.

    The doctored images are amusing to those (like me) who have already chosen our opinion. However, like politicians we are going for those who haven't decided yet. My advice would be - keep it real on this blog.

    Much appreciation for everything that you have done!!!


  71. Macau
    "Pais pedem esclarecimento da morte de Luís Amorim
    Os pais de Luís Amorim, que apareceu morto em Macau em 2007, apelaram ao chefe do executivo macaense para que garanta um esclarecimento das circunstâncias da morte do filho de 17 anos. Macau afirma que foi suicídio. Lisboa também pede esclarecimento"

    «Apelávamos a que desta vez o chefe do executivo olhasse para nós e para o nosso caso e encontrasse uma solução, porque nós sabemos que é uma questão de vontade. Sabemos que se este chefe do executivo quiser, a verdade será encontrada», afirmou à Lusa Maria José Azevedo, mãe do jovem.

    Luís Amorim apareceu morto na marginal de Macau na madrugada de 30 de Setembro de 2007.

    Uma autópsia feita ao corpo do jovem pelas autoridades forenses em Portugal coloca em causa a tese de suicídio, sempre defendida pelas autoridades de Macau.

    «Considero que houve algo de terrível, algo de muito misterioso e desde o início que as autoridades de Macau tudo fizeram para apagar vestígios das provas que nós sucessivamente íamos dando», salientou a mãe de Luís, que naquela noite tinha ido festejar o aniversário de uma amiga.

    Os pais, que trabalharam na região chinesa durante 12 anos, contam ter sido «remetidos ao silêncio total e absoluto», com «tantos episódios horríveis das autoridades de Macau para tentarem convencer» que o filho se tinha suicidado.

    Para o pai, as autoridades macaenses «fizeram muito pouco», considerando mesmo que «a investigação feita foi muito fraca e tendenciosa».

    «Tudo fizeram para provar a tese que eles informaram de suicídio e tudo fui feito para validar essa tese», assegurou José Amorim.

    Uma segunda autópsia pedida em Portugal, e autorizada pelo tribunal de Gaia no âmbito da produção antecipada de prova, revelou que «o Luís foi vítima de ações extremamente violentas que lhe provocaram a morte e exclui que ele tenha sofrido uma queda em altura», contou o pai.

    Atualmente, o casal aguarda pela resposta do Ministério Público de Macau ao pedido de reabertura do processo que apresentaram, para que a verdade seja encontrada «com competência e isenção», o que implica que «as pessoas que estiveram a trabalhar no processo não o podem voltar a fazer».

    «Pretendemos, através de qualquer organização internacional que tenha legitimidade, tentar procurar a verdade para que seja feita justiça ao Luís», salientou José Amorim.

    Apesar de várias tentativas de contacto, o casal lamenta não ter tido qualquer resposta do Governo português sobre o assunto.

    Do governo de Macau ouviram que «os tribunais têm de funcionar».

    José Amorim apelou mesmo a que as autoridades portuguesas apoiem o caso, «que ultrapassa em muito as questões diplomáticas».

    «O Luís era um cidadão português que vivia em Macau e que, portanto, devia ter o apoio das autoridades portuguesas. Apoio que nunca tivemos», lamentou.

    O ministro dos Negócios Estrangeiros, Luís Amado, sublinhou na sexta feira que os governos português e de Macau estão «interessados» em ver esclarecido o caso do jovem que apareceu morto na região chinesa em 2007, aos 17 anos.

    Luís Amado disse aos jornalistas, após um encontro com o chefe do executivo de Macau, Fernando Chui Sai On, em visita oficial de seis dias a Portugal, que ambos os governos estão «interessados em ver esclarecidas as circunstâncias da morte» de Luís Amorim, no âmbito do «estrito respeito pela independência do poder judicial».

    Lusa / SOL


  72. Anonimous @ 70,

    Yes they were ordinary folks when they went to Portugal in May 2007.
    Their power born with their crime and the incompetence of the PJ boss at the time, Alipio Ribeiro and the portuguese minister of justice. Two guys who are two jokes at the front line of portuguese government. They are largely known in Portugal, by their 'YES MAN' behaviour and by their easy way to be manipulated.
    Before fooling this two, they fool Sky News ( who due to the Media crise at 2007, jumped on that story imediately) and fool the British embassador. The British embassador had no choice- he have to help british citizens in Portugal when they ask for support. Will be very polemical if he did not help them, but soon he realise the error and sent a letter(published by a German or Belgiun newspaper) warning the British government about the inconsistencies of the Mccann's statements and the lack of evidences to support any abduction. On this letter he even said that the story could be different then what the mccann's were telling. By the time, was already too late because Brown already commited an error- he sent Mitchell to help the Mccann's as a spoke-person, allowed the Fund to be setted and sent some British police. There is no way for the British government to assume such big error. BUT THE BRITISH EMBASSADOR IN PORTUGAL WAS REPLACED- WHY? that is the question- DID HE ASK TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE HE DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF A COVER-UP IN A CRIME HE ALREADY KNOW THE CONTORNS or was he replaced because he become a problem for both governments? The power of the Mccann's came from the huge mistake BROWN have done by jumping on the story so easily and so quickly. I believe, British government learn a lesson with that error, this is why Scarlett Keeling had not such support in Goa and the most recent British sotries in spain had no support at all.
    Now... off-course they have power... Mccann's don't want the case to be reopened. Mitchell don't want the case to be reopened. Brown and the Home Office don't want the case to be reopened. IF SO, THEY WILL BE ALL EXPOSED AND GUILT. This is why, Madeleine became a State Case. Was an error only comparable to the false reports which allowed Iraque invasion.
    Mccann's are two ordinary folks with a lucky star shinning in Portugal. But this star will not last forever. They are the only British citizens the portuguese hated from the bottom of their hearts, because contrary to the British and the portuguese governments, it is not easy to fool a portuguese citizen and got away with such crime.
    What is amazing, is that Mccann's claim to have the support of many VIPs but we never saw any of that VIPs, clearly come to the papers and give interviews assuming that support. Is this not strange? I think so... is strange and speak volumes. On the other side, Amaral has many expert and important voices, in Portugal and abroad, speaking for him, supporting him, for free. A huge contrast between two guilt parents responsible for the disapearence of their girl, and a competent police who was called into the case exactly because he was competent and 20 years of his work with hard cases, showed a great success and speaks for him.

    Now the two neglect parents try to convince the world that whatever hapenned to Madeleine was Amaral fault. What a shame... Amaral did not bring Madeleine to PDL on 28 April 2007. He did not damp her in the creche everyday or left her babysitting her twin brothers every night. He was called in after the crime hapenned and do whatever should be done on such cases, with success... THE DOGS TESTIFY THAT, AND DOGS DON'T LIE AND CANNOT BE MANIPULATED OR CORRUPTED.

  73. I can't help wondering whether admitting that Gordon Brown's interference in the McCann investigation aided by David Miliband of course was yet another of the former government's underhand tactics just to gain popularity at the time, that if made fully public could be labeled a matter of natioal security and damaging to relations with Portugal. How long will it remain so?

  74. wow poster 73 ,brilliant post,just wish "someone would have the guts" to say,enoughs enough , I know I could get justice for Madeline if I SPEAK UP NOW,but who has it in them to "cast the first stone" when they know the macaans are just waiting for the next person they can sue to come along with a theory that blows their "abduction lie" into pieces.Not one person it seems,unbelievable!!!!

  75. Anonymous 70, So when exactly did Britain catch on that they were being scammed by the McCanns? Has the British media figured out yet that they were duped? If so, then why do they keep printing the silly articles? I guess Mr. Brown had no choice in letting Mr. Milliband and other politicians invite the McCanns to go to the European parliament some 7 months after Mr. Amaral had been taken off the case.

    To say that the British government made a mistake and could not assume that error is ridiculous? They simply could have said that they do not wish to interfere in the investigation and walk away from the matter, simple as that. The reason no case before or after has had such blatant interference from the British government is because before this whole charade started the McCanns were already known in political circles, and most likely they know some unsavoury things. I laughed out loud when you compared this supposed error to the false reports that led to the Iraq invasion, are you serious?

    As for the VIPs, I have seen the millionaire Mr. Brian Kennedy on the BBC look in to the camera and declare his support for the McCanns until the day he died. How about all the high class social gatherings, didn't Kate McCann meet prince Charles at Westminster Abbey recently? How about Mr. Jim Gamble the head of the CEOP, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre, and his public declarations of support for the McCanns?


  76. I believe I just posted a comment that addresses anonymous 70. I meant anonymous 73.

  77. Dear GUERRA-66! You are speaking for most of us! Your every single word is true!
    Agree with you. Well said!

  78. Hi Anonymous (poster 76) I find it appalling that Jim Gamble is supporting the McCanns, when their neglect, is the cause of Madeleine's disappearance and they are still under suspicion by the Portuguese police, of being more involved with Madeleine's disappearance, than neglect.

    Also as Joana quite rightly says, the McCanns said the fund to find Madeleine, would not be used to pay for lawyers. The fund didn't need to pay for the McCanns lawyers, because Richard Branson publicly stated, that he would pay for the best lawyers available for the McCanns, should they be charged with any offence, regarding Madeleine's disappearance. He also gave £100000 to the fund.

  79. Richard Branson I find your support of the "Madeline Macaan "ABDUCTION"NAUSEATING,GET REAL !!Thats why I am now with SKY but then you do like dressing up in wedding dresses etc etc dont you ,"great minds think alike" ,why dont you put your money into a worthy cause ,eg ,children whose parents leave them on their own whilst they go out drinking without a babysitter to look after their babies OOOOPPPPPS sorry your already supporting those scum arent you ?????Have the GUTS to say YOU,VE MADE A MISTAKE ,BIG TIME in your support of the scum,now known as "the macaans" I DOUBT IT !!!!

  80. Guerra, don't buy their power. They were ordinary folks who jumped on everything and everybody, and some people just let them go on because they lost a child and the crime was not solved. Will be a good exercise to count, from all this VIPs they claim to have support, how many offer them a support and how many were approched by them, using all the strategies we can imagine, very well delivered by an expert- Mitchell. I can tell you- the big majority did not gave any support. Were approched by the Mccann's or their team. Mccann's ask their help and used the media to afford their intentions. Not the serious media but the tabloides, the one which use the same strategies and survive under the same shameful behaviour. Saying that the British Media help them, is an error. Serious media don't gave them a single minute. Only THE SUN and their twin tabloides because they target the same public and the life was not easy, even for papers... they have to sale and make money, no matter how dirty this money is. I can give you just few examples which speak volumes about Mccann's strategy to use the media when they try to approach important people or spread a spin:

  81. CONT:
    the first time Mitchell came to the Media announcing their trip to the Pope, he says it on a way that made the public thinking that the Pope invited them. Portuguese journalists framed Mitchell and he was forced to recognise that in fact they approach not the Pope, but the British representative of the Vatican in England, who ask permission to the Vatican for them to seat in the front chairs, near the Pope on Wednesday. The portuguese Bishop then explained that every wednesday the Pope let public to come close to him, something usual and very normal. He even said that calling that trip to the Pope an audience was abusive. The Pope do this every wednesday for ordinary people and portuguese journalistes even reported how many seconds the Pope spend with Mccann's. Few seconds ( exactly the same spended with other people). The story change completely- They were not invited, they squeeze themselves into a normal wednesday in the Vatican and used the Media to try to pass the message that this wednesday was special and they had a special attention. A lie, a big lie. ( that information is available at the book written by a portuguese journalist, called ' Porque adoptamos Maddie'.
    Another example: Mitchell squeeze himself into a Media Forum in Dubai and planned to bring Gerry. There was complaints from journalists and Gerry did not attend the meeting. Mitchell was underfire and when he left everybody understand why he came to Dubai, a town faraway from PDL. They wanted to pass a message that portuguese police was bring to court by the Mccann's and judged for incompetence. They want to stop people to read Amaral book. The case was against the book but convenniently they spread the idea that was about PJ.
    The trip to the European parliament is another example of squeezing themselves into very convennient organizations. That one become a huge joke, showing how poor they have been advised by who open the parliament doors to them. They went there without doing a properly homework and they end up hijacking the ideas of others. That trip was a disaster for them and apart the British guy who bring them to the parliament, no any deputy gave any attention to what they said. The phone number they claimed for their Amber Alert, already existed. Portugal and some other countries already had a warning system for Missing persons, even in May 2007. Margarida Sousa Uva, the wife of the European parliament President, was the main menthor of the system for Europe. Mccann's waste their time in the parliament, because they were not invited... they assalt institutions, events and people.
    The Harry Potter author, another example of them squeezing into an event. Before one of her books came out, Mccann's announced in the Media that they asked her if she can add something in the book to remember and highlight Madeleine. I remember that JKR took a lot of time to answer their proposal. But because she write books for childs, will be very embarassing for her to refuse such proposal. The book end-up with a reading mark showing Madeleine face. JKR did not invite them, they squeezed into her event and her fame to grab some fame ( power if you want). AND HOW MANY OTHER SITUATIONS WERE LIKE THAT? C. Ronaldo also said that somebody from MU was approached by them and ask him to make the appeal he do.
    They were ordinary people who manage to fool Brown very early and because of That won the 'Euromillions' few days after their child ' has gone'. When the money finnish in the Fund, their power and their connections will fade and they become the same ordinary people they were when they went to PDL.

  82. people get sent to prison for frauluently claiming money, but what of the Mccanns their fund is the biggest fraud and their on-line store all set up a couple of days after Maddie disappeared, even now it still continues without investigation the Mccanns must be laughing at the gullible public, how many millions have they taken with their 'good marketing ploy'.

  83. Hi Guerra @ 76
    "To say that the British government made a mistake and could not assume that error is ridiculous? They simply could have said that they do not wish to interfere in the investigation and walk away from the matter, simple as that."

    How? How can the British government say that after sending a team of top British polices to portugal? How can British government jump out of the mistake after Socrates assumed in TVs that he talked about the case with Brown and was following the case closely. He even called the girl with her full name: Madeleine Beth Mccann.
    BUT all that involvement from Brown did not mean, the Mccann's had any power or good relationship with power when they arrive to PDL. They know somebody well connected, same as trillions of normal British and portuguese people. If I know somebody who knows a ministry, that don't give me any power but could open me many doors to easy fool who I want and achieve my goals, special if the case is so "touchant" and sensible that involve a little missing child already delivered to the press as a beautiful and fragile princess.. And off-course when powerful people realised how easy they have been fool, they will use everything to avoid being exposed and the case known outside the country.
    This is not a scandal like the bills payed by public taxes. This is much serious and will damage not only the diplomatic relations between Portugal and UK, but also between UK and many other countries ( Morocco, Spain, Belgium, France, New zealand, etc). Several countries were direct or indirectly involved with faked sights of Madeleine, nests of paedos and abductors. Several polices in the world spent public money and time to search and look for Madeleine. Imagine if the world discoveres that Madeleine was already dead when the alarm was raised and died at the parents care... and the British authorities knowing that long ago let the cover -up grow, because their government acted in a naive way. They were forced to engage a cover-up, damaging the image of several countries and blaming innocent people... WILL BE A HUGE SCANDAL FOR UK AUTHORITIES, special now that all the countries need to work close on safety issues to avoid terrorist attacks. Don't forget that the stupid Mccann's for long time connected the abduction with a man with Tan Skin ( like if the skin colour play's any major rule to stereotype or determine an evil). And off-course, they had to use the skin colour to keep themselves out of the suspiction and all the British ( avoiding with that a home reaction against them) but they fall in the Arab world, blaming Moroccos. A very stupid and xenophobe option, after blaming Portugal. So danger and ridiculous, that after all the blaims and suspictions they end-up framing British convicted childs abusers. THEY LOST THE NORD.

  84. Cont:
    I agree with Guerra if you think that Mccann's have some power now. Not when they arrive to PDL. Now their power came from two main issues: the error done by British government and the money to pay top extradiction Lawyers. If the money stops, their power fade and somebody will left some papers in a garden bench or in a seat of London underground, exposing the scandal. A small report from the FSS will be enough. A letter, the record of a phone call.
    I read also several times that Gerry was an expert consulted by British government for radioactivity. Was only him or he was part of a team? All the people working in public jobs, one day or another have been consulted for some sensitive issues. Doctors and teachers spent the time giving opinions, writing reports, evaluating sensitive documents for their governments. That don't gave them any power if an accident happen and they are innocents. But I agree, evil people can use their work and what they know, to fool people and avoid a deep investigation and the eyes of a court. By doing that, they can try to grab some power, but in reality they will not get anything. All the work people do for the government, if is sensitive, is protected by secrecy and who worked on it was forced to sign and keep the secrecy. Exposing what they know to the Media, is a crime against the state. Gerry will not take that risk. His power come from Brown mistake and I agree, was born on the minute, the British embassador buy their story and manage to convince Alipio Ribeiro. After that and under naive attitude, came Mitchell, the British police and the vulture Tabloids who never missed a tearful story.
    In UK, only the public wants the case to be re-openned, only who cannot do nothing for Madeleine, want the truth and want justice. Mccann's and British authorities will seat quite, waiting for the dust to slow down and rest. But we know, the Mccann's cannot really rest without the support of their lawyers, then some time they will show-up remembering the public that donations are a must, and for THAT THEY WILL KEEP MADELEINE ALIVE, NO MATTER IF IS JUST IN A "SECOND LIFE".

  85. "Daily Express: Madeleine: British Diplomat had doubts about McCanns"
    3 December 2007 (no longer on-line)

    "A British diplomat warned the Foreign Office of concerns regarding Mad­eleine McCann’s parents, it emerged last night. Doubts about Kate and Gerry McCann were raised almost immediately by an official sent to Praia da Luz due to what he considered to be “inconsistencies” in the couple’s testimonies about the night the four-year-old vanished. The warning was contained in a classified document sent from the Algarve to the Foreign Office days after Madeleine’s disappearance. Details of the letter have been leaked through the British diplomatic mission in Brussels to the respected Belgian newspaper Derniere Heure.

    The unnamed diplomat voices his concern about the “confused declarations” as to the whereabouts of Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends in the final hours before Madeleine’s disappearance. He also mentions the couple’s “lack of co-operation” with the Portuguese police in the light of instructions from London suggesting consular staff “overstretch their authority and put pressure on the Portuguese authorities”. The document also asks for confirmation of orders sent by the Foreign Office in London the day before, commanding embassy staff to give “all possible assistance to the McCann couple”.

    Diplomats on the Algarve were told the McCanns had to be “accompanied at all times during any contact with the Portuguese police” by a member of consular staff or by British police officers sent out from the UK. The letter, sent just days after Madeleine disappeared, warns of the risks of siding with the McCanns so completely. Excerpts published in a report by La Derniere Heure quote the diplomat as saying: “With the greatest respect, I would like to make you aware of the risks and implications to our relationship with the Portuguese authorities, if you consider the possible involvement of the couple. “Please confirm to me, in the light of these concerns, that we want to continue to be closely involved in the case as was requested in your previous ­message.”

    A huge team of diplomats have been involved in the case since Gerry McCann asked the Foreign Office for help. In an unprecedented move, the then Prime Minister Tony Blair despatched special envoy Sheree Dodd, a former Fleet Street journalist, to Portugal to act as a “med­ia liaison officer” for the McCann family. Direct government communications with the McCanns came to an abrupt halt, however, when the couple were made official suspects in the case in September."

    Source: That Blog with thanks to Joana and Astro for their exceptional work.

  86. @post 73, i hope you forward your letter to the Guardian and other stinking british press and media you wrote the words and thoughts of many a people exactly right and it drums home well done!!

  87. Were the McCanns treated like royalty because they were doctors?
    Are they above potential involvement in very unsavoury activities because they were doctors?
    Something else caused this appalling level of protection.
    Take a look at this, apologies if it has already been posted.


    Doctor convicted of child pornography charges

    Douglas Harris, 29, trawled through paedophile websites after working shifts as an orthopaedic surgeon at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary.
    But, speaking after the verdict, Chief Inspector Phil Chapman, of Grampian Police, said: “This case shows that people from all walks of life can be involved in this kind of sickening activity.”

  88. Kathybelle 79
    Absolutely correct. Gamble should not be supporting anybody. That is not his role. He should be impartial, clinical, disinterested (in the correct meaning of the word), analytical, and aloof.
    The fact that he is not is seriously worrying.
    As worrying as the reported actions of Detective Chief Superintendent Stuart- "Call me Stu" - Prior.

  89. The facts of this case are very simple, they are; if you have money and connections you can employ whoever you wish, to do whatever you wish, and they will, PROVIDED you keep paying them to do whatever you wish. BUT apart from the money, which is the only thing that keeps this case going, all we own are our values, thoughts, actions and integrity and therefore our destiny, so I say this to Kate and Gerry Mccann; what is your true net worth to the world and the people around you? Are you really rich or do you just have money? I believe you have money but you have also sold your souls and marketed your baby and that crime is abhorrent and you will regret it until the end of your days, you both had the most beautiful little girl Maddie, and because of your actions you have taken away her life and I believe she will haunt you both for the rest of your natural lives and it matters not if you make billions, trillions or zillions from Madeleine’s memory she was indeed priceless and irreplaceable , unique, innocent and a beautiful innocent little girl on the thresh hold of life and she once belonged to you, but due of your greed and manipulation God has taken her home, Shame on your Kate and Gerry you have missed so much from knowing Madeleine growing up and you will one day pay for your sins against this innocent child.

  90. Beautiful post @ 90. Yes they are not riche. They have money which don't last forever. A fraudulent money which I believe will end-up on the same way as fell in the Fund: Millions in few days. The public just have to wait with pacience, because their day is coming more fast then what they think. A lie always have short legs and their lie will hunt their lives forever with the shame of their other Kids. I can imagine the twins, when they are teenagers, coming to the Net to found answers for their questions and their friends sharing with them the same questions and the same answers. Mccann's will end-up as the most hated parents in the world. AN END THAT THEY WORK HARD TO ACHIEVE WITH ALL THEIR LIES AND THEIR STUPID BEHAVIOUR.

  91. It is my experience that when a poster clearly points out the facts and fallacies of this case, that those who want to obfuscate the truth resort to writing paragraph after paragraph of nonsensical gibberish in the hope that the reader will overlook what is irrefutable. I remember in another blog, I posted a small paragraph that just stated the facts and pointed out the fallacies, facts and fallacies that this other poster didn't want the public to see.
    This other poster then posted a lengthy comment. I didn't post a reply because engaging in an argument would only detract from what I clearly stated. Well this other poster posted another lengthy comment hoping that I would post a comment, I didn't. This other poster, as I suspected he would, rambled on posting comment after comment in the hope that my 7 sentence comment would get lost in the type. Such is the nature of the beast we are dealing with.

  92. Some very interesting posts !!!!90 especially ,we all want the same thing in the end ,JUSTICE for a neglected little girl .Pity those who possibly do know what happened , won,t say anything, and we just keep saying why?

  93. ''The image of these dogs no longer adorns British police websites. Maybe the British public shouldn't be so hard on these dogs, maybe their work was compromised by the smell of sardines in Portugal.''

    The dogs are no longer on police websites because they are no longer police dogs. They were not police dogs when they went to PDL. And the Jersey fiasco had a much bigger impact here in the UK than the Madeleine case as far as the public's perception of the reliability of the dogs goes.

  94. This case has its very own inbuilt paedophile suspect, so why aren't the McCanns' investigators and Gamble focusing of him? Is it because Kate and Gerry said their Tapas friends are above suspicion.

    Yeah, right. Tell that to those other doctor friends of the McCanns, the Gaspars. They sure don't think so.

  95. poster 44,
    I sense pro mccann here- what about the photoshopped last picture of Madeleine?? I have asked the McCanns why they do not demand the case is re opened as most normal parents, but no reply, surprise surprise. And Kate you call that childish drawing a piece of art???it shows no emotion, no thought, no sadness. Nothing. I have worked within analysis of art, nd this is nothing that a grieving mother would produce

  96. 86, could it be that a British diplomat in Algarve in 2007 would have known the whereabouts of Madeleine's body?
    There is a British consulate in Portimao, 20 km from Luz.
    And there are British diplomats living around.
    Where did the body go to, after it was taken out of the church?

  97. Anon @ 90 - lovely post.

  98. guerra 92 'Such is the nature of the beast we are dealing with.'

    Well said. Reminds me of: "Kate and Gerry McCann 'created information monster' that hindered search for Madeleine McCann."


  99. Hi Guerra @ 92,

    I'm poster 81, 82 and 84, 85. I hope your words are not related to my posts. I feel so. I post only on that Blog and I'm not a beast at all, if your words are direct to me. I agree with your main opinion about pressures, manipulation and power. The only think which I don't agree is with Mccann's having any power before May 2007. On that case, I think we have two Mccann's: the one who went to PDL as normal people, facing the same financial problems, and the other Mccann's, who born there with the support of a huge and well drived Media campaign. Now, their power come from the money they have in the Fund which permit them to afford top lawyers who scare people with letters and from the incompetence of the portuguese Attorney General ( he is too soft and unable to use the evidences PJ have).
    I wellcome your posts and all other posters. From our discussion, I believe new information come to our minds and this is very positive. Mccann's guilt is so evident and so transparent that is showed in many ways.

  100. Que a estrela de Madeleine se posicione hoje sobre o ceu da cidade do Cabo e ilumine a Seleccao portuguesa para alcancar a vitoria.

  101. What on earth is wrong with the justice system in Portugal, that this case has been allowed to go on like this, its nothing more than a joke, for the sake of an innocent child get this case reopened. Don't let the UK have any say in this it's up to Portugal to do this. Get all that are needed back in Portugal back there to answer any question thrown at them solve this case once and for all, its now time to stop this stupidity and stop the Maccann's ruling the roost.
    No crime in this world has been dealt with like this its a national disgrace. Portugal the ball is in your court show the world what you are made of bring back your pride. Your name has been dragged through the mud long enough. I am sure Mr Amaral God bless him is not the only person in Portugal with any backbone.

  102. Mary from Liverpool does not seem to understand that there are people in high places within Portugal protecting the Mc Canns. Of course the British Government sabotaged the investigation and had the celebrity child-neglectors flown out of Portugal when they were made arguidos. However, the Portugese Government were complicant in this outrage. The Portugese have also defied their own constitution in banning Mr Amaral's book. The McCanns would not be taking legal action against Mr Amaral if they thought there was the remotest possibility of losing the case. I am as sickened by this case as Mary from Liverpool. I'm a realist also-and there is no chance of the case being re-opened or the McCanns being brought to justice.

  103. The Portuguese Attorney General is in the same bag, as the Mccann's. He don't want the case to be reopenned. He is underfire regarding other sensitive cases in Portugal. No way for him to reopen Maddie case and expose his incompetence. Unfortunatly for the country, PJ have to deal with some guys in high positions that don't help justice to work. Mccann's have to thank's him a lot. He is one of the main pieces working Pro-Mccann and against Madeleine Rights. Is a joke every time he come to the Media to say that no new evidences arrive to PJ to reopen the case. What are all this fabricated sights of Madeleine and scapegoats abductors, manipulated and forced to fit cartoon sketches? Nothing else then new evidences... but off- course working against the Mccann's and bringing them back to center of the storm.
    If one day, other Attorney General decide to give green light to the evidences PJ have and reopen the case, Mccann's and their portuguese lawyers will be in disgrace. Carter-Ruck lawyers were not allowed to work in a portuguese court. They always have to hire portuguese lawyers to face a portuguese court, then no success with spin and lies. The portuguese lawyers will be caught, same as Isabel Duarte, by journalistes and by the Public.
    I believe if Rogerio Alves, Pinto de Abreu and Isabel Duarte had the possibility of erasing the time and the events, they will choose to be not Mccann's lawyers. What, at the beginning apeared as a good case to promote them and give them credit and publicity, end-up as a shame and detract their image in the Country. They take the wrong horse... Fail to clear the Mccann's. They Will be forever connected with the retourn of the censorship and the attempt against freedmon of expression ( they bring back the dark time of Portugal before the revolution). They will be looked as the lawyers who prevented a little foreigner child to achieve justice and worked against the reputation of the Country. No any portuguese is proud of them.
    Many friends I have from Sporting( Lisbon football team) want Rogerio Alves out of the top decisions in Sporting. He developped such bad feeling in Sporting supporters, that they think, because of him and all he do against Madeleine, the team is not performing well. He is the symbol of a kind of Karma for the team. what this lawyers lost in Portugal no any money from the Fund or any Carter-Ruck can pay back.
    I hope the collision between Pinto de Abreu and Marinho Pinto, one day will bring some lights to Madeleine case. In Portugal, people say "ZANGAM-SE AS COMADRES SABEM-SE AS VERDADES".

  104. Mary from liverpool,how right you are,why rely on our British judicial system to bring justice to Madeleine,it will never happen,the Portuguese hold the ace card.

  105. E a estrela de Madeleine ajudou a Seleccao portuguesa a brilhar na cidade do Cabo.

  106. Mary from Liverpool, how can you conclude that the ball is in Portugal's court? The suspects are in England, the McCanns and their Tapas friends, and so is the information that the Portuguese police requested and never received. The manner in which England has conducted itself in this matter is scandalous, they have done everything in their power to prevent a proper investigation from taking place. Madeleine McCann is an English citizen, please tell me what exactly has England done to find her? It is England's national disgrace.

    Anonymous 94, have a look at the following:



  107. Put the squeeze on Tanner. Give the ex priest from Luz an opportunity to bare his soul,secrecy of confession stinks in criminal cases, that priest is very upset by something. Why did the man at the pet cemetry talk to McCanns??cant remember where I read this. Dig up the garden of Rothley, Pull them both back in for questioning, for kate to answer those questions. And those who contributed hard earned money to this fund that the McCanns feed off, make a complaint to the police, for money not being used as it should..its called FRAUD. Maybe something might move in this hideous fairytale

  108. The McCanns ignore when asked why they wont demand the reopening of the case, 4 requests I sent them

  109. I have just got back from Uk and have fallen out with many friends and relatives whilst discussing the McCanns, have the people in the UK been blindfolded? Lack of true information is a very dangerous thing, The people I was discussing with, hold the opinion that our K & G are squeeky clean. and I was the monster for pointing out things and directing them to websites like mccann files and this site. gerry should not be practising medicine, until he has been officially cleared, not just through lack of evidence. I have come back with the idea the MCs and their fraudulant fund are well in control. RIP MBM

  110. petition the PJ to open the case, now

  111. There is an excellent post on the blog, McCann Unravels - then there were 4
    It is the first of 3 posts on Freemasons and Gerrys connection with it, and the masonic looking sign outside Glenfield Hospital.
    well worth a read

  112. guerra at 107

    The UK can't reopen the case, only the Portuguese can do that. Dr Amaral has said that with a different prosecutor this may be possible.

    The official investigators have said they believe Madeleine is dead. Given the blood and cadaver scent behind the settee, this case should be reinvestigated as a murder investigation. The previous investigation certainly did not do that. It also never openly challenged the abduction scenario set up by the McCanns, not even in the questioning of the Tapas friends. Those questions were still geared to looking for an opportunity for an abductor to have nipped in and taken Madeleine. This left the field open for the McCann abduction spin, and boy have the spun it.

    I would agree with Mary, the ball is in the court of the Portuguese. They should send it back with a murder investigation label and then let's see how the McCanns will spin that. Maybe then new evidence will arrive on their doorstep when it is publically stated that Madeleine is dead and murder suspected, and that there is also suspicion of paedophile involvement within the Tapas group as stated in the Gaspar statements.

    Not to do this is to sweep the whole thing under the carpet and let the McCanns carry on regardless, doing what the hell they like.

  113. To 107 I could not agree more the UK have been a disgrace in this case but this crime was committed in Portugal maddies body we think lies in Portugal. It's the Portugese the Maccann's are laughing at not the UK they are the Maccann's best friends. The Portugese justice system are terrified of the Maccann's and bowing down to pressure from the UK Brown has gone now get the case reopened. I don't care if the Maccann's go to jail in Portugal or the UK as long as its to jail they go. Please don't tell me it will never be reopened I want to sleep tonight.

  114. I just read McCann Unravels.
    Is there any proof the Glenfield hospital is connected to the free masons, is that photo above the entry door not fake?
    If it is a secret organization, how do we know doctors who are working at that hospital are Freemasons?

    110, I met a lot of English people who believe Madeleine is dead and that the parents know what happened.
    And they are fed up with the story.

  115. 106, ... e Portugal deu Cabo dos coreanos...
    Fiquei com pena deles.
    Aquilo foi horrível.

  116. To Post # 112

    Thank you for your piece of advice! I've just read that first post and I think you're right. It is very interesting indeed!

    An Argentine woman

  117. Good morning poster 110, I have had exactly the same problem with my sister. She was appalled when the McCanns, were made arguidos, she said they were completely innocent of Madeleine's disappearance and it was the abductors fault, that she disappeared.

    When I pointed out to her, how the McCanns left their children alone all but one night of that so called family holiday, the McCanns never searched for Madeleine and there was no evidence of an abductor, my sister who is normally meek and mild, turned really aggressive towards me. I never mention the McCanns anymore to her, if she brings the subject up, I just say it will come out in the wash and leave it that.

  118. That is from LEICESTER CONSTABULARY police site:

    "Make a suggestion"
    "Sparky - the Solutions mascot
    Leicestershire Constabulary’s successful staff suggestion scheme Solutions has now been extended to members of the public."

    "The aim of the scheme is to encourage members of Leicestershire Constabulary and the public to suggest ways in which the Force can improve performance in all areas of its service to the public.

    The Solutions scheme also aims to help break down some of the existing barriers of communication between management and staff and members of the public.

    Submissions to the Solutions scheme should suggest ways in which Leicestershire Constabulary can improve the quality of service that it gives to the public and ways we can improve our effectiveness and efficiency.

    If you have an idea that you think would make a great ‘Solution’ you can fill in an entry form online. Once the Solutions team has received your suggestion, the details will be recorded and you will receive an acknowledgement. You will then be contacted again, within 28 days, to update you on how your suggestion is being progressed.

    Please enter your suggestion in the form below. When you are happy, click the send button to submit your idea to the Solutions team. Fields marked with * are compulsory.

    Please note: The form cannot be used for communicating information regarding Madeleine McCann. If you have messages of support for Madeleine's family please visit www.findmadeleine.com. If you have any other information please call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111."

    Interesting that the form cannot be used for Madeleine Mccann ( There is the rest of UK and then the VERY SPECIAL, VERY UNIQUE, VERY PROTECTED MCCANN'S). It is really amazing that information coming from an official police site:

    "If you have any other information please call Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111."

    Meant, any important information to solve the case and help finding the truth, must be handed direct to the Mccann's and not to the police, TO BE MANIPULATED, WASHED, SPINNED, FILTRATED, DEALT BY LAWYERS INSTEAD POLICES.
    And the British are paying the salaries of that "con" forces and all their strategies to protect main suspects.
    It is a shame that a country member of the European Communnity act like that, violating the rights of one of their childs and preventing another country from making justice. The British citizens really have to open their eyes and bring Madeleine case to the streets, forcing their government to answer all the doubts we have: WHAT MADE MADELEINE CASE DIFFERENT? THE NATURE OF THE CRIME? THE SUSPECTS? THE FACT THAT SHE IS DEAD AND WRONGLY... BRITISH GOVERNMENT ALLOWED HER TO BE SEARCH AS AN ALIVE PERSON?

  119. Anonymous 113, the UK can pretty much do what it wants. Yes the crime was committed in Portugal, but did that stop the English from sending their police to Portugal? They had no concern about infringing Portugal's jurisdiction. Of course the police that England sent were more of an escort service than anything else, as evidenced by their departure with the McCanns.

    The ball was in the Portuguese court, it is now in the English court. If the English authorities are not going to cooperate fully with the Portuguese authorities there is no point in re-opening the case.

    Let's face it the McCanns ran an excellent PR campaign in portraying themselves as model English citizens and portraying the English as being superior to the Portuguese. So much so, that many Britons would rather prefer to not know the truth than to have their image of the McCanns and themselves shattered. If they want to live in a fantasy world that's fine with me, I couldn't care less. What bothers me is that a Portuguese prime minister who has been embroiled in scandal after scandal is making a mockery of the Portuguese justice system in order to save his own skin.

  120. Well said Guerra @ 120. And Vale Azevedo extradiction is another example, showing how the British System mocks the portuguese justice. Portugal really steps back with Socrates driving the destiny of the country. He do everything to avoid justice to work, protecting himself and all who manage to play with media.

  121. 113 I totally agree the UK will not see the Maccanns in jail they are too well protected.Lets hope and pray Mr Amaral or Murat have a surprise for all of us. I would like nothing better to happen.

  122. 120 I agree totally in what you say, The Maccanns have brainwashed a lot of people in the UK but the tide is turning. Our only hope could be Mr Amaral please God he is the one to sort this out and see justice done. I trust him.

  123. Guerra 120

    100% with you: clear,net.
    Down to the heart of the matter.
    People will have to respond for their actions.Whatever if they live in a fantaisy world which escapes all rules and especially justice.
    All of them will respond:first the mccanns and their silencED friends, followed by both british and Portuguese, not authorities but governments because they are the ones who decided, in the face of committing a gross abuse of justice towards Madeleine,to shut up to cover their miserable backs.

  124. guerra at 120

    According to Dr Amaral it was the UK investigators who suggested the dogs be sent in. Hardly something they would do if they were protecting the McCanns.

    As to any protection given the McCanns, I don't believe it is coming from the cops who worked on the case as they have been vilified as useless along with the PJ by the McCanns. Presumably because they wont do what the McCanns want and investigate their supposed leads which the investigators believe are dud because they know Madeleine is dead. The Leicester Police also wouldn't give them the information they wanted when the McCanns took them to court to try and get it.

    So any protection the McCanns are getting must be coming from higher Masonic connections of which the Government and members of the police force in high positions, is stuffed to the gills. If this is true it is a disgrace and should be exposed. We already know the Government is covering something told them about the McCanns that if known would ruin relations between Portugal and the UK. Who suggested that the information be covered? Was it Brown by any chance? Here's hoping it will all be released and we get to know. Maybe a whistleblower or a hacker will access it. Not much can stay secret in this day and age.

    May I also add there is no doubt the UK police would have carried out a search of the McCanns property with the dogs in UK if requested by the PJ, but obviously they didn't request it. The question has to be asked why not when Murat and his family had their houses and gardens searched? What is making the McCanns so special they are given a pass on a search when they are main suspects? The case was shelved by the Portuguese before this happened and the cops stood down.

    The relief to the McCanns was immense when the case was shelved as can be seen by the photos of them when they first came back to UK and Kate looking haggard, and there was talk around of suicidal matters. Why were the McCanns so worried if they had nothing to hide? But it could also be asked why refuse to answer questions if there is nothing to hide, and Kate McCanns refused to answer any when she was taken in for questioning. After the case was shelved and their arguido status removed Kate McCann really glammed up, sometimes looking like a film star.

    There is no way this case can or will be reopened by the UK, the ball really is in the court of the Portuguese. They should get back in the ring and start swinging because the McCanns are not going to stop their vilification of the PJ.

    They PJ could start by reclaiming their positions as the true investigators and reopen the case as a MURDER INVESTIGATION and make it known LOUD AND CLEAR that MADELEINE IS DEAD, and that she died in the apartment. That should put a spanner in the McCanns Fund for a start and send their so called investigators packing.

    Then, they could bring to the fore the Gaspar statements and suspicions of paedophile behaviour within the Tapas group. Maybe if they do that they will get more cooperation from the Tapas friends, instead of allowing them to do their own thing and refuse to return for a reconstruction.

  125. Guerra, they are not English - McCann is Scottish or Irsh (who knows or cares which?) and Kate McCann is a scouser, they are primarily Irish. Gordon Brown is a Scot. So lets remember England is run by the lesser nations of the UK.

  126. Dear Mr. Bennett,

    Thank you for your email of the 17th June 2010 about your ongoing request under the Freedom of Information Act that we received on the 22nd March 2010, in which you asked the twelve questions which you have detailed below.

    I would like to apologise again for the amount of time it has taken to provide a substantive answer to your request. I appreciate that the fact that your request is still ongoing might appear to indicate that we are deliberately delaying our response to you or that we are trying to obfuscate the matter. I would like to reassure you that this is not the case.

    The questions that you have asked relate to an investigation into the disappearance of a missing child; an investigation that is still ongoing within the UK at this time, as I am sure you are aware. Whilst your questions ask for the release of simple facts, as you put it, we must be extremely careful that our answers to those questions and the release of any information that we may or may not hold, does not prejudice this investigation, any relations between UK and Portuguese authorities or would be otherwise prejudicial to the effect conduct of public affairs.


  127. ...I acknowledge that this matter is of significant interest to a large number of people and that there is great deal of ongoing speculation about the stage of investigation. As you have said, there is huge public interest in ascertaining what happen to Madeleine McCann. However, the ‘public interest’ that we consider in conjunction with the Freedom of Information Act, is not the same as what might be of interest to public, or what they might find interesting. In carrying out a Public Interest Test we consider the greater good or benefit to the community as a whole if the information is released or not. The ‘right to know’ that is provided by the FoI Act must be balanced against the need to enable effective government and to serve the best interests of the public.


  128. The Home Office claiming there is an ongoing investigation.

  129. Furthermore, the FoI Act is ‘applicant blind’. This means that we cannot, and do not, ask about the motives of anyone who asks for information. In providing a response to one person, we are expressing a willingness to provide the same response to anyone, including those who might, in some circumstances, represent a threat to the UK. In this instance, we must also consider whether or not our answers to your questions could be used by some members of the public to prejudice the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

    We have to balance, on one hand, the inherent public interest in the Home Office being open and accountable whilst, on the other hand, how the public interest would be served by us providing answers that could prejudice these investigations or be otherwise detrimental to the work of the police, the government and the McCann family in their efforts to locate Madeleine. Would it be in the best interest of the public for the Home Office to be seen as releasing information that might prejudice the investigation? Probably not. Would it be in the public interest for the Home Office to release information that could potentially jeopardise relationships between the United Kingdom and policing authorities with which cooperate around the world? Would these authorities be willing to work with us in the future if we released information that potentially prejudices an ongoing investigation? The answer to both is no. Would it be in the public interest to release information that could help Madeleine’s captor evade detection and arrest? Most certainly not.

    These are some of the considerations we are currently considering. Simply because the questions are direct and would only require simple answers, does not mean that potential prejudicial effects of providing those answers would not be far reaching. Whilst we do not doubt that, as a concerned member of the public, you are interested in ascertaining what information the Home Office holds on this matter, we must consider the possibility that some individuals may use this information to their advantage and not for the benefit of the community as a whole.

    I would therefore like to apologise once again for the time it is taking us to provide you a response to your questions. Please be assured that this is because the subject matter is extremely sensitive and not because we are trying to obfuscate the matter or be deliberately awkward. Please also be assured that I am aware that we have exceeded the twenty working day deadline provided under s.10(1) of the Act and that, despite legitimately extending this deadline under s.10(3) of the Act, we have also exceed the forty working day guideline provided by the Information Commission. The Home Office does aim to provide a prompt response to all FoI requests but, in some cases, where the information is particularly sensitive, we do need to take some extra time to make sure we have considered all the aspects relevant to that case.

    In regards to the four new questions which you have asked us to consider, these will need to be treated as a separate request. This is because a valid FoI request under s.8 of the FoI Act only concerns information that was held at the time a request was received. Because your new questions concern information that might have been recorded since your original request was received, we will need to consider it separately. In light of this, I would be grateful if you can confirm that you would like us to answer these questions separately.

    Thank you again for your interest in the Home Office and for your patience in this matter. If you have any more questions about the handling of your request, please don’t hesitate to contact me and I will be happy to help.

    Yours sincerely,


    Ian Lister
    Information Access Consultant
    Information Access Team

  130. guerra at 107:

    That's my point. Those articles were written before Grime retired and took the dogs with him to set up his own business - just weeks before they went out to PDL. And he used a video of the dog searches in PDL to persuade Harper to use them in Jersey. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time.

  131. Not the Masons again purleese!
    Goncalo was supported by many in Freemasonry, he said so himself.

  132. Why dig the McCanns garden?
    Do you think Maddie's body could be there?

  133. anon 115,
    did you not see the equation into the sign and the proof it is accidental or not a Mason sign, did you not read the whole of the post about the different types of Msons in that area, did you not read about the doctors associated with the Masons from that hospital and friends of McCanns, please read it again. This is why GM continues to work there

  134. Anon 115,
    please read the article again it states many doctors are Masons but also the man the mccanns met by accident worked in the same hospitalat one time. please read it carefully?? and then say what you think

  135. Kate McCanns family names - Healey, Kennedy, they sound like Irish names. That means both McCanns are from Irish ancestry originally. Don't think there is any English connection there apart from them living in England, so please don't blame the English for these characters, yet they have the cheek to imply the 'English' have a custom of leaving their kids alone while they go out for the night.

    Bet McCann would not dare say that about the Scots or Irish, but he gets away with it when he says that bloody lie about the English. This pair make me sick.

  136. There is no ongoing investigation...these two wags have covered their trail well enough, they have pulled enough strings, ant they bide their time. Filing defamation cases represented by untouchable lawyers if you dont have money, and a fraudulant funt that appears to have a lawful blessing. May the spirit of dear M, haunt these two until the truth comes out.
    Sorry if this sounds mean butmany feel this way at the manipulation these two have exercised

  137. Anon 127

    The Home Office have no doubt been confused into thinking the McCanns' investigators are the ones undertaking the investigation. Perhaps Mitchell is advising them on that as he seems to have wormed his way into every nook and cranny of Government.

    The whole thing is crazy when we have people like the McCanns, who are still top of list as suspects themselves, yet running their own pseudo police force, and issuing photofits, questioning 'suspects', and giving investigation updates to the media as if they are the official investigators, all through their spokesman Mitchell, as if he is some Government appointed person speaking for the police themselves.

    The world has gone mad. Is nobody going to end this nonsense! Shame on the Home Office for not stepping in and stopping this. They don't appear to have a clue as to what is going on. There is a big difference between an investigation being carried out by the paid so called 'investigators' of the McCanns acting under McCann orders, and a real official investigation carried out by official investigators that have all the evidence to hand and are really trying to discover the truth of what happened to Madeleine.

  138. Anon @125, I read that the dogs were called in to search Murat's mother's house. The house was searched throughly and the dogs didn't find anything there.

  139. Mccann's Case, until the dogs found the truth was a police case, following all the steps an investigation like that, should follow. After the dogs, and because of what the dogs exposed, the case become sensitive and a state matter, very well used by British government to protect the reputation of the Country and the reputation a group of cityzens who represent British Middle class. On the other side, there was Socrates, a PM under investigation in UK, regarding corruption and illicit payments to get some issues approuved in the Freeport. Was not difficult for Brown to have Socrates at his hands and drive the investigation as he wants. And Socrates let it go, no matter how he was damaging the image of Portugal and the reputation of the top state police. It was his skin or the skin of Amaral and other PJ. We know the choice, delivered with such cinism, that Amaral got the news on his birthday trough the papers and not trough an official way. This says a lot about the portuguese government, but the country will not forgive that.
    British government shelved the Freeport, but the portuguese guy working in the Eurojust still suspended ( just a small detail which speak volumes on that saga Maddie/Freeport letting us to achieve some conclusions). Let Socrates be out of the government in Portugal and Mccann's portuguese lawyers completely exposed by their shame in protecting criminals who worked against justice for their own child , and we will see the case reopened by another prosecutor and another Attorney General. IT iS about us, the public, to not give up and fight where we can to highlight the inconsistencies, the manipulation of the public and the media. We have the power of the number and an amazing condition- we, the public who don't buy Mccann's abduction theory without evidences, we are millions and crossing different countries, different social status, etc. will be very difficult to silence us, special because we just want justice and the truth. We don't have an Internet trade marketing to sale our feelings or grab money to ourselves. We fight for justice, free. Justice for a child, we never meet and we don't even know how she looks like because her pictures delivered to the media, could be a result of a manipulated 'photoshoooooot' to achieve BEAUTY, KINDNESS, FRAGILITY, PASSION.
    They have a marketing, we have sensibility. They have desperation, we have perseverance and pacience. They have top lawyers, we have an hearth and millions of inteligent brains.

  140. 125 - marvellous post - I can't believe the mccanns have gotten away with this for so long is there nobody that can demand the case be re-opened, you state the facts exactly as they are this is all a great big cover up.

  141. "Home Office response to FoI request from The Madeleine Foundation The Madeleine Foundation""

    22 June 2010

    From: Lister Ian (IMS)
    Subject: RE: Home Office FoI request CR14428 PLUS FOUR MORE FOI QUESTIONS and COMPLAINT
    Date: Tuesday, 22 June, 2010, 14:03

    "Dear Mr. Bennett,

    Thank you for your email of the 17th June 2010 about your ongoing request under the Freedom of Information Act that we received on the 22nd March 2010, in which you asked the twelve questions which you have detailed below.

    I would like to apologise again for the amount of time it has taken to provide a substantive answer to your request. I appreciate that the fact that your request is still ongoing might appear to indicate that we are deliberately delaying our response to you or that we are trying to obfuscate the matter. I would like to reassure you that this is not the case.

    The questions that you have asked relate to an investigation into the disappearance of a missing child; an investigation that is still ongoing within the UK at this time, as I am sure you are aware. Whilst your questions ask for the release of simple facts, as you put it, we must be extremely careful that our answers to those questions and the release of any information that we may or may not hold, does not prejudice this investigation, any relations between UK and Portuguese authorities or would be otherwise prejudicial to the effect conduct of public affairs.

    I acknowledge that this matter is of significant interest to a large number of people and that there is great deal of ongoing speculation about the stage of investigation. As you have said, there is huge public interest in ascertaining what happen to Madeleine McCann. However, the 'public interest' that we consider in conjunction with the Freedom of Information Act, is not the same as what might be of interest to public, or what they might find interesting. In carrying out a Public Interest Test we consider the greater good or benefit to the community as a whole if the information is released or not. The 'right to know' that is provided by the FoI Act must be balanced against the need to enable effective government and to serve the best interests of the public.

    Furthermore, the FoI Act is 'applicant blind'. This means that we cannot, and do not, ask about the motives of anyone who asks for information. In providing a response to one person, we are expressing a willingness to provide the same response to anyone, including those who might, in some circumstances, represent a threat to the UK. In this instance, we must also consider whether or not our answers to your questions could be used by some members of the public to prejudice the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

    We have to balance, on one hand, the inherent public interest in the Home Office being open and accountable whilst, on the other hand, how the public interest would be served by us providing answers that could prejudice these investigations or be otherwise detrimental to the work of the police, the government and the McCann family in their efforts to locate Madeleine. Would it be in the best interest of the public for the Home Office to be seen as releasing information that might prejudice the investigation? Probably not. Would it be in the public interest for the Home Office to release information that could potentially jeopardise relationships between the United Kingdom and policing authorities with which cooperate around the world? Would these authorities be willing to work with us in the future if we released information that potentially prejudices an ongoing investigation? The answer to both is no. Would it be in the public interest to release information that could help Madeleine’s captor evade detection and arrest? Most certainly not. (CONT)

  142. CONT:
    "These are some of the considerations we are currently considering. Simply because the questions are direct and would only require simple answers, does not mean that potential prejudicial effects of providing those answers would not be far reaching. Whilst we do not doubt that, as a concerned member of the public, you are interested in ascertaining what information the Home Office holds on this matter, we must consider the possibility that some individuals may use this information to their advantage and not for the benefit of the community as a whole.

    I would therefore like to apologise once again for the time it is taking us to provide you a response to your questions. Please be assured that this is because the subject matter is extremely sensitive and not because we are trying to obfuscate the matter or be deliberately awkward. Please also be assured that I am aware that we have exceeded the twenty working day deadline provided under s.10(1) of the Act and that, despite legitimately extending this deadline under s.10(3) of the Act, we have also exceed the forty working day guideline provided by the Information Commission. The Home Office does aim to provide a prompt response to all FoI requests but, in some cases, where the information is particularly sensitive, we do need to take some extra time to make sure we have considered all the aspects relevant to that case.

    In regards to the four new questions which you have asked us to consider, these will need to be treated as a separate request. This is because a valid FoI request under s.8 of the FoI Act only concerns information that was held at the time a request was received. Because your new questions concern information that might have been recorded since your original request was received, we will need to consider it separately. In light of this, I would be grateful if you can confirm
    that you would like us to answer these questions separately." (CONT)

  143. CONT:

    "Thank you again for your interest in the Home Office and for your patience in this matter. If you have any more questions about the handling of your request, please don’t hesitate to contact me and I will be happy to help."

    Yours sincerely,


    Ian Lister
    Information Access Consultant
    Information Access Team


    ( uma resposta que nao e mais do que uma peca de M... ( desculpem-me o vocabulo mas nao encontro outro adjectivo que melhor a descreva) mostrando bem o envolvimento do governo ingles no cover-up de um crime que envolve wma crianca inglesa. Espero que G. Amaral e a PJ compilem estas provas para um dia serem esfregadas na cara dos governantes e das autoridades judiciais portuguesas que deixaram que este crime transformasse Portugal num Estado Anedotico e sem regras. E diz o Home-Office que e para nao estragar as relacoes dos UK com outros paise, para nao permitir ao raptor que fuja e impedir a localizacao da crianca... Bem... que eles recebam salarios para encobrirem verdades e reterem informacao, e toleravel. Agora que tentem passar-nos a todos um atestado de burrice, e inaceitavel. As relacoes entre Portugal e os UK, ja estao danificadas. Se o Socrates ama e lambe os pes ao Brown, isso e outra coisa e nao tem nada a ver com relacoes entre os dois paises. O dano das relacoes traduz-se na reducao de turistas ingleses em Portugal e na desconfianca que os ingleses geram a comunidade portuguesa, tendo o seu pico nos Mccann que se transformaram nos ingleses mais odiados em Portugal e arredores. E nao foi o publico Portugues ou Ingles quem contribuiu para isso. Foram os governantes e o Home Office com a sua indelicada estrategia de nao saber lidar com um crime que eles sabem bem... envolve uma crianca morta ha mais de 3 anos e os seus pais como principais suspeitos. Vao mandar respostas destas durante 20 anos? Esta na hora de comecarmos todos a escrever ao Home Office e a Procuradoria da Republica Portuguesa. Quando formos muitos, falaremos a uma voz. Infelizmente este T. Benneth tambem teve uma infeliz "saida" com a PJGA que lhe retirou credibilidade. Tem iniciativa mas nao sao claros para mim,os reais motivos que o movem. E uma especie de " Mccannice" do outro lado da balanca. Mas serviu para percebermos como se desespera o governo ingles por tentar calar a verdade. Quem seria o publico que poderia usar a informacao retida? e que informacao e essa? So consigo pensar na VERDADE e no facto de apesar de saberem toda a verdade ha muito tempo, permitirem a sobrevivencia de um FUNDO e o assalto a eventos de caridade para fortalecerem monetariamente um FUNDO que e uma FRAUDE. Nao desista G. Amaral, as criancas abusadas, judicialmente desprezadas, e Portugal precisam de si e da sua luta. Ha sempre tempo para a verdade).

  144. Said this before, many times, and I still don´t get it. If this is a "cover-up" by the powers that be it must be the noisiest, most attention-seeking, counter-productive cover-up of all time.

    Why wasn´t it all hushed up right from the start? It´s not as if politicians aren´t any good at hushing things up when it suits them.

  145. All the speculation about Masons makes Madeleine supporters look like a crowd of conspiracy theorists.

    This case is simpler than many seem to think. A little girl died at the hands of her parents through either negligence or malice. A group of politicians were drawn into the story because they were charmed pictures of an innocent little girl, and when the dust settled and they realized they had been duped, they were embarrassed and went into damage control mode for the sake of their careers. Unscrupulous lawyers got involved because they wanted publicity and money.

    Muddying the waters with Masonic symbols will not help. This case is all about child abuse, greed and self centered adults who care more about themselves than about Madeleine.

    God rest her soul.

  146. Anon 137,wonderful post.

  147. Anonymous 128, "That's my point." There are many anonymous postings on this site. What exactly is your point? The dogs had worked on many cases before the Madeleine case and were successful never giving a false alert and I'm sure they did an excellent job in Portugal and Jersey. Please enlighten us, why wasn't it a good idea to send the dogs to Jersey? I suggest to all those anonymous that are going to post regularly and attempt to convey a line of thought to post with a name. It is much easier for others to know where you stand and to engage in a discussion.

  148. There are people who try to discredit the dogs findings in Jersey and say they alerted to a coconut. Rubbish.

    What a load of tripe that is. There might have been a coconut there, but there were also children's teeth, and if the dog alerted to cadaver scent, they sure had been a dead body or bodies there at some time or other. It is a place of death, exactly like the people who had been abused as children had been saying.

    It is about time people in high positions who are paedophiles are exposed and not allowed to impede the investigation of their paedophile pals. How many children have been murdered we will never know, their young lives sacrificed to the sick lusts of these evil dogs. No doubt they will rot in hell, but may they also rot inside for the rest of their lives if caught. Why release them back into society to continue their evil and inflict themselves on other innocent children. Who in society wants these dangerous dogs near them or their children. Apart from the bleating liberal idiots, nobody in their right mind does. So why do they keep being released?? Obviously because there are people in high places making the law that do not take this seriously enough and could not really care less.

  149. I can remain anonymous if I wish. Tell me, does the use of the name 'guerra' tell me who you are? Of course not, and I have no wish to know anyway, so please stop that nonsense.

    It was not a good idea to send the dogs to Jersey because the investigation was an expensive, embarassing fiasco which severely dented the dogs' reputation. If they had not used the dogs and announed to the world that there were dozens of bodies buried there, then perhaps some of the truly abused would have got justice. As it was the nonsense that surrounded the dogs' alerts - all over the site, most of them turning up nada - actually hindered the search for justice and the punishment of the abusers. This is not just my opinion, most people in the UK know this.
    It is also not true that the dogs have never given a false alert. I suggest you re-read exactly what it is that Grime claims about those dogs. Never giving a false alert is not one of them.

  150. An interesting article at Mccann Unravels. Their connections start being showed up.

  151. brilliant post at 137 - well said

  152. Anonymous 140, I'm not going to delve into Masonic symbols. So I guess that the government only realised they had been duped some time after some of its members accompanied the McCanns to the European parliament, is that right? When was that April 2008 or there abouts? Are they slow witted or was that part of their damage control to save their careers?

    I fail to see how their political careers could be tarnished for coming to their senses, you'll have to explain that one to me. Please tell us what damage control has the government engaged in.

    I do agree this is a case of child abuse.

  153. guerra..

    t'was not such a jolly idea to send them canines to Jersey

    as they failed dismally in Luz



  154. Anonymous 137.
    When Sócrates go away from government the changes will be the same as in UK with Cameron.No more Brown in power the McCanns continue protected.Nobody touch them , even the police treat them has "holy" case , the normal rules don't apply to them. And by the way, don't forget the main supporters of the couple in Portugal are connected with PSD.Expresso and so on...
    I am very sorry but from this side i don't have any hope.
    But i believe one day justice will prevail .

  155. I leave this post for the acceptable posters on here..

    The dogs prove - nada/rien/nichts..if their handler Grime..was kosher

    at best..their alerts would be regarded as 'indicative' in a court of law this would be'inadmissable'evidence..akin to hearsay

    at worst... Grime..primed the scented items to further his post-police career (he's been awfully quiet for about 2 years, hasn't he ?)

    the farce started when Grime's wonderdogs..alerted to a piece of coconut shell...and horror of horrors....mass killings were suspected...but never materialized

    guys kick out of it

    Madeleine did not perish in the OC in May 2007

    there is NO EVIDENCE of that

    delude yourselves all you like-

    --until then 'woof..woof' renders you rather moronic IMHO


  156. Isar, I think I can hear Gerry calling you.

    'Here boy!'

  157. How the pro McCann camp hate any mention of those 'ludicrous' dogs.

    Strange how if they are so 'ludicrous' the cops of the UK and US are more than willing to use them over and over again.

    Truth is, they are not 'ludicrous', they are spot on. What's the matter pro McCanns, are you getting a bit worried they will be taken round to Rothley in the near future.

  158. Isar, how unlucky the McCanns were that the dogs signaled the presence of death in their apartment. What a streak of bad luck the McCanns went through. Out of 10 vehicles the dog's only became excited when they came across theirs. They can thank their lucky stars that the FSS laboratory was there to save the day. Although they should complain to the Home Office about how long that laboratory took to come up with an explanation.

    Isar, the poor dogs have been active but you see the British establishment wants to keep it all hush, hush. I guess they fear that to much publicity will be detrimental to the dog's work. Why Eddie found a missing man last June buried in the sand dunes at Sty Wick. Could it be that Mr. Grimes is a mass murderer?


    Isn't it quite the coincidence that every case that deals with paedophilia and has trails to the British establishment fizzles out. Baby teeth and fragments of human bone all of a sudden are declared to be older than the premises in which they were found, and what was thought to be bone is coconut shell. I guess the Jersey residents should be more careful where they dump their coconuts.

  159. What I don't understand is, if Cuddlecat was the inseparatable toy that was said to have been Madeleine's, then why did Gerry McCann have to go back to Rothley to get a pillowcase with her DNA on.

    Why no DNA from the toy?

    Also, why no pictures of Madeleine with the toy? Just how long had Madeleine really had that toy, if ever?

  160. Guerra,

    I am the first to admit I do not know as much about this case as others. It took me two years to smell a rat and start to look into it at all. However, I know members of the Masons and they are business people, not pedophiles or criminals. Sadly, there are pedos and criminals in every walk of life.

    As for politicians, once they leapt on board the McCann Express they could not back down for fear of looking partisan and stupid. That is the only reason some of them still appear to support the McCanns.

    I think this case boils down to child neglect and stupid, arrogant parents who think they can get away with anything. Their time will come. Prison will not look good on the McCanns and other prisoners will not be nice to them.

  161. Anonymous 144, No, guerra doesn't tell you who I am, but all my ideas and thoughts are grouped under the heading of guerra. I have no interest in knowing who you are; however, it sure makes it easier to distinguish one poster from another and know who said what, when you post under some title. What is so difficult in posting under a title of some sort, what do you fear?

    Mr. Grimes did retire from the South Yorkshire police in July 2007 and that would explain why the image of the dogs was removed from the South Yorkshire police website.

    I came across this interesting posting by Lenny Harper the ex- Deputy Chief Officer who worked on the Haute de la Garenne case in Jersey.


    It is a long but interesting article, he does talk about the mysterious fragment, that was sent to the lab for dating. The fragment yielded 1.6% collagen the cut off for dating is 1%. By the way collagen is found only in mammals not wood, not coconut.

    Here are some excerpts:

    "However, we still do not know how, where, or when those children died and probably never will. We think we know how the bones ended up where we found them, and that was expertly laid out by Karl Harrison in his Archaeological Theory of the Burnt Debris including Human Bone Fragments and teeth found in the East wing."

    "I am not aware that it has ever been identified as a coconut. Anthropologists are trained to identify human remains. The only anthropologist to examine it thought it part of a child’s skull. On seeing it later when it had changed its appearance she was not so sure. People carrying out Carbon Dating are trained for that process, not identifying the matter. Even then, they gave contradictory and confused information to us. When reading below, bear in mind that collagen is found only in mammals, not wood, not coconut."

    "The Technician (who is not an Anthropologist) who was carrying out the process commented that it ‘looked like a coconut husk.’ She went on to say 'If it isn’t bone I am really sorry,” but then finishes with “although it could well have been poorly preserved bone as I described it.'"

    "By the time I retired, the only person to suggest the item might be a fragment of coconut was a technician who was trying to date it. No Anthropologist has ever identified it as such. One way to clear this would be to have it further examined, and I am not aware if that has ever been done. I am told, rightly or wrongly, however, that it has been lost. If true, how convenient."

    "The crucial fact – that the powers-that-be in Jersey don’t want people to understand – is that the single fragment in question had been discounted from the investigation.The important thing of course is not what it is. That stopped being important when we found out how old it was. Gradwell, Warcup, and Ms. Simon have totally ignored that fact. They have tried to tell the public that I knew it was coconut and/or too old to be of interest very early on, but nevertheless pursued the investigation solely on the basis of that, one, fragment. Their story is a total fabrication."

    Mr. Harper's like Mr. Amaral has has also been subjected to a propaganda campaign to discredit his findings and malign his reputation. I guess if you're investigating a case involving paedophilia with possible involvement of those in the British establishment your reputation will take a beating. Even dogs are not immune to this type of treatment.

  162. @ 148 and 149, you wish.the dogs were right every time,i think you need to do a little more reading up on the matter.blimey the mccanns supporters are trying to diss any one and anything to take the heat of off the saintly pair.sorry but your wasting your time, madeleine is dead and the mccanns and t7 had some thing to do with it

  163. Guerra at 156

    Many thanks for that great posting.

  164. @anon 149

    Since when did you become the arbiter of who's an "acceptable poster" and who isn't?

    Either you're deliberately spreading disinformation or you're showing your ignorance in stating that Eddie alerted to coconut shell at Haut de la Garenne in Jersey. He didn't - he alerted to cadaver scent. [Neither did Eddie race back with a bit of coconut shell between his teeth when Martin Grime cried "fetch!" =)) ]

    Eddie alerted to what he was trained to detect - cadaver odour. It was down to the forensic bods to gather samples from the places where Eddie and/or Keela alerted. The collection of the coconut shell was down to human (NOT canine) error.

    Incidentally, how would you explain away the 60+ milk teeth that were found in the cellar at Haut de la Garenne? There's proof that they didn't fall out naturally. Do you still believe in the Tooth Fairy?

  165. Some of you many be interested to read on the McCannfiles.com (click latest news) the response from the Home Office to Bennetts questions. According to them "....The questions that you have asked relate to an investigation into the disappearance of a missing child; an investigation that is still ongoing within the UK at this time,"


  166. Isar@149 No one actually knows what happened to Madeleine, people have formed opinions on what they have read about the case and needless to say there are differing views.

    Firstly, you say the dogs found nothing, not true they found something albeit no enough to take court action. Secondly you are bordering on suggesting Grimes planted evidence and I am still trying to work out why he would do that. Do you honestly think he would incriminate innocent people in order to further his career. I think you should kick out of that suggestion.

    Secondly, you say Madeleine did not perish in OC. Maybe you are right but you have no evidence to back up that statement anymore so than people who think the opposite can prove what they believe to be true.

    I am still undecided what REALLY happened and who did what. You obviously think Madeleine was abducted, so maybe you would like to answer the question that really puzzles me.

    The Team McCann have "apparently" followed up sightings all over the world but to my knowledge they have NEVER FOLLOWED UP THE SMITHS SIGHTING, which was the most important one of all. This makes no sense to me. I know the Smith's at a later stage said the man looked like Gerry, but if Gerry knows it was not him he would at least know the "abductor" resembled him and not the egg with hair bucked teeth man that everyone has been asked to look for. Maybe when you have consulted with the pro team you can come back with the answer because many of us would like to know what it is. Thank you

  167. Isar@149 Further to my previous post, can you please also clear up a few other points - Take a look at this video

    I would like to know just how many cuddlecats there are - one is pulled out from behind the sofa and then another from the cupboard. I also thought someone said the furniture had been moved and a rug place over the cleaned up area, what rug, I cannot see one near the sofa. Another thing that puzzles me are the books - a strange choice for holiday reading but having said that I think the McCanns would have had the sense to remove them if they felt they would be harmful towards them. This is still a complete mystery to many of us and sadly not a lot seems to be being done to solve it.

  168. Anon 144,and Isar,you ought to get back to the Madeleine thread on Sky,you clearly stand out a mile,just because a body was not found in Jersey,though Eddie reacted to a certain spot there, does not mean a cadavar hadn't lain there before,your well known on Sky for trying with your cronies to disparage those wonderful dogs,and you fail everytime,those dogs weren't wrong before Madeleine and they have not been wrong since Madeleine.I believe Martin Grime when he says they have NEVER falsely alerted,but then the McCann sychophants will say anything to protect them.

  169. Oh yah Isar @ 149,

    Mccann's melody.... you suit so well Gerry theory.

    Yah, the dogs find nothing? This is why a Top team of Forensic experts from Portugal and UK recovered samples of blood to be analised exactly on te places pointed by te dogs. Tis is wy the report about tat samples take ages to be issued and sent to PJ.
    Give as a break wit your nonsense post about the dogs. You look like the Mccann's defending their abduction theory without evidences on the reverse way- trying to rubbish the dogs when there is plenty of evidences exposing that they are reliable and had help the police investigation in many cases with 100% of success.
    If you want, I can add to your theory about Jersey, my own theory. I tink the dogs find human remains in Jersey and they act with success. But because they were involved on Maddie case and that success will bring Maddie discussion back to te headlines of papers and public conversations, the government quickly tried to discredit them and avoid their shame on the most recent case of childs abuse- Madeleine.

    Saying that the dogs are not reliable, or not accurate, just can suit main suspects in a crime.
    Dogs are used every day to recover survivers or bodies from accidents or natural disasters. They help with success blind people or securities in airports. Do you think all this people and governments are stupid by spending so much money in training dogs? to reach with their noses

  170. @149

    We are well aware that dog alerts are not admissible as evidence in a court of law but they are certainly regarded as grounds for reasonable suspicion - and they alerted to everything McCann & only McCann.

    Scent dogs are used all over the world; in war zones, disaster area’s, law enforcement & the prison service. If the dogs were inefficient, official agencies would not waste valuable resources employing them.

    Cadaver dogs are trained to alert to cadaver 'scent' just as drug dogs are trained to alert to the scent of drugs. For example, recently, a drug dog alerted to a passenger exiting a railway station. The passenger was not in possession of drugs at the time he was stopped but freely admitted he had them earlier that day.

    The dogs alerted to cadaver scent in Jersey. That does not mean a death occurred in relation to child abuse but it does mean that there was a corpse, or an item which came into contact with a corpse, in that building at some point.

    Furthermore, human bone was found in Haute la Garenne - two of these dated from between 1470-1670 and 1650-1950 respectively - maybe the dogs are more efficient than we thought.

    And finally , as a previous poster (27) has pointed out, cadaver dogs were also correct in the Shannon Mathews case. Karen Matthews bought a bed from a charity shop - in which a man had passed away.

    Your allegation that Martin Grime ‘primed the scene’ - in other words, framed the McCann’s - to further his career, really is scraping the barrel.

  171. guerra @ 156 - spot on - you are rattling a few pro mccann cages here - good on you - totally agree with all your well thought through, logical, factual posts.

  172. Time for us to have our say. We are well trained dogs (that can also type). We are not influenced by anyone, we just do what we are trained to do which is mark cadaverine or blood if we find any. We are not clever enough to let you know who the blood or cadaverine belonged to, we leave that to forensics. We are not interested in furthering our career we have all we need, so Isar get off our backs, because you are barking up the wrong tree

    woof woof

  173. @163

    That simply isn't true about the dogs. Grime never claimed it - onoy people who are ill-informed say he did.
    Please go back to the files and read them.

  174. On the subject of dogs being used officially, they are regularly on duty at Heathrow airport as sniffer dogs for drugs etc. I saw one yesterday!
    This shows that their accuracy is generally respected - until, of course any dog dares to react to anything near the McCanns.
    And before anyone goes into the difference between Eddie, Keela and an 'average'sniffer dog, I am merely making the point that these dogs are being used right now by the authorities,whether police or security.

  175. Poster 160.
    Kate washed Cuddlecat, don't know if this destroys DNA. Anyhow Kate didn't smell Madeleine but washing powder, bizarre.
    I also wonder why no pictures of Madeleine with her inseparatable toy (holiday present?). Did one of the family or friends ever mention Cuddlecat? So many questions just about a toy.

  176. Whatever we say or think the investigators, cops from both UK and Portugal, trust the dogs.

    They KNOW Madeleine is dead. They are not guessing about that. That's why they refuse to follow those dud leads from people saying they have seen the child here, there, and everywhere.

    Saying that cadaver scent must have been planted by the police is wishful thinking on the part of people like Kate's mother, who no doubt had been told this. Surely in her heart of hearts she knows the truth though it is a sad thing to accept.

  177. "I guess if you're investigating a case involving paedophilia with possible involvement of those in the British establishment your reputation will take a beating." Very well said Guerra. I just add an example from Portugal - The Judge Rui Teixeira, was almost viliefied when he frame some politicians related with Casa Pia. He was an outstanding Judge but his career progression was almost compromised by his decisions on Casa Pia.
    The media is very agressive, exposing the childs abusers from the Catholic Church but act with blindness regarding the politicians. I hope, soon that karma can change, and finnaly Madeleine and other victims can achieve justice.

  178. The McCanns and their followers sure do want to dismiss the dogs, and any opportunity they will jump in and try and do so. They have also done such a good job at rehabilitating the McCanns and pushing the big bad abductor that it is difficult to have a comment printed about the dogs in the newspapers.

    They want the people they are brainwashing to completely forget about them, or they are trying to sell the lie that the dogs are useless.

    It wont wash, because the people of the UK hold these dogs in great regard. The McCanns make me sick, there is no level they will not go to, even to try and discredit these marvellous dogs. Are they worried the dogs will be sent round their place to search as they were with the Murat family, where, it must be pointed out nothing was found. Unlike the McCanns holiday apartment and hire car, where everything the dogs alerted to had been used or owned by the McCanns. Their job was not finished though, because the property of the McCanns back in UK should have also been searched. This case is not finished yet, it is only shelved, not closed. The investigators know much more than they are telling, and it must be galling to the McCanns that they have not managed to find out what. I ask you, which of us would have the neck to go to the cops wanting them to pass on their confidential information to us, especially if we were the main suspects. Of course, they are doing this under the claim they need it to try and find Madeleine. Yes right! Such things have never been known before, and the cops wouldn't play, so the McCanns went to the media and vilified them as they have been doing with the PJ.

    The dogs had no axe to grind, neither did their trainer or the investigators. To say they would plant evidence against them is really scraping the barrel. And which of us, if we had been told the dogs had found cadaver scent and blood behind the settee would have reacted like the McCanns. We would be wanting to know how Madeleine came to die there and what happened to her then. To continue to say Madeleine came to no harm, although being taken off by the big bad abductor sure sounds like harm to anybody in their right mind anyway, is really crackpot. Madeleine came to great harm in that apartment because she died. Pray the case gets a new prosecutor as Dr Amaral has stated, which could mean that charges will be brought. This case should not be allowed to be shoved under the carpet which the McCanns, much as they claim otherwise must want, as they only have to request the case be reopened and Kate McCann answer all those questions she refused to answer and the reconstruction done. Why would Kate be not answering the question now being as Gerry has filled in the answers for her anyway. Or is she worried that new questions will be asked because they certainly should be.

  179. Isar some of us are still waiting for you to answer last paragraph of post 167. Can't the pros think of a good reason?

  180. 5 months almost passed since Isabel Duarte accused PJ in Lisbon for doing nothing and dumping the investigation. 5 monts passed since she announced to the world, how shocked and sick were some pictures she saw in Portimao police office. 5 months passed, over the day she announced that they will ask the process to be reopened, if their other lawyers agree with. 5 MONTHS PASSED OVER SO MANY LIES. She is a shame and lost all the credibility.
    What made ther other lawyers not moving a single step to reopen the case? THE ABSOLUTE CERTAINNITY OF MADELEINE BEING DEAD SINCE MAY 2007 and the STRONG EVIDENCES SHOWING THE INVOLVEMENT OF HER PARENTS ON HER DEAD. ISABEL D. actions speak volumes and become part of the proves against the Mccann's.
    ONLY IN A COUNTRY WHERE JUSTICE DID NOT WORK, SUCH KIND OF SITUATIONS ARE POSSIBLE. Wake-up Portugal, they still mocking the Country and the short life of a little girl.

  181. Well said 79 - I pray this case is re-opened and justice for Madeleine and Dr Amaral and thank you Joana for all your work.

  182. Bravo 179 common sense indeed.

  183. Long haired lover from Liverpool UKSaturday, June 26, 2010 10:56:00 am

    Liverpool Football club former manager Rafa Benitiz has given £96 thousand pounds to the Hillborough Families fund, a substantial amount to a dementia home a substantial amount to a cancer hospice and a substantial amount to the parents of young Rhys Jones the little boy who was shot dead in Liverpool because his parents impressed him so much.
    Rafa 4 maccann fund nil God Bless him in all his future work.

  184. In A Fish Restaurant On Praia Da Luz

    a retrospective for eddie and keela

    These wine-sodden plods couldn't tell a crime scene
    from a picnic. I mean - it's clear cut:a locked
    apartment, a jemmied-up window screen
    and a toddler - gone. They should've had this case licked

    long ago. There's even a witness - that Jane Wotsit -
    she saw the guy, a swarthy pale-complexioned man
    complete with pink-pyjama'd child in a blanket.
    What part of Abduction do these cops not understand?

    It was a strain to watch that wee mite's parents
    force smiles for the cameras in Fatima and Rome.
    Even His Holiness seemed somewhat distant -
    a trifle insensitive, I thought at the time.

    Ah, here's my filleted Portuguese Plaice,
    (there's no-one does seafood like the Portuguese).
    But mark my words - these new sniffer dogs will crack this case -
    swiftly. The world knows no finer detectives than these.

  185. The McCann’s claim they knew instantly that Maddie was abducted - they say she was 'taken' by a paedophile - yet, despite that assertion, they failed to call the police immediately. On finding Maddie ‘gone’ Kate McCann fled the building leaving the twins on their own when instead, she could quite easily have called for help from the balcony but, ’that’s what you’re taught to do in a medical emergency’ said Gerry McCann. - an odd analogy.

    Strangely though KM was unable to leave the building again that night to actually search for Maddie, even though hundreds of strangers were out there searching for her daughter. It’s difficult to imagine the mother of a three- year-old not going outside the door to look for her missing toddler. Antonella Lazzeri claims this was because she was both ‘catatonic & hysterical ’ (she was however, able to make several phone calls that night) but Kate told Oprah it was because ‘it was dark’. Furthermore, these forensically aware doctors failed to preserve the crime scene, they ‘knew’ Maddie was ‘abducted’ but still allowed numerous people to trample through the apartment that evening potentially destroying vital evidence.

    They then put their ’abducted’ child’s life in jeopardy by publicizing her eye anomaly against Portuguese police advice but it was ‘a good marketing ploy’. Their unusual lack of emotion - noted by many people - was due, they said, to British police advising them not to show any emotion as the abductor might get a kick out of it.

    Then came the dog alerts - you can imagine the uproar in the media had the dogs alerted to anyone else but the McCann’s. Most people would be alarmed at the dogs’ findings if their child were missing but not the McCann’s - when that news first broke I remember listening to BBC radio which reported that ‘lawyers acting for Kate and Gerry McCann’s [they didn’t name the lawyers] say Kate McCann, prior to her holiday, came into contact with six dead bodies in the course of her work as a GP’. That explanation has since been dropped and now the dogs are simply dismissed as ’unreliable’.


  186. ……..continued

    Kate McCann worried what her parents would think of her being made an arguida but she was not, it seems, worried what they would think about her refusal to cooperate with the investigation & answer police questions or her failure to return for a reconstruction. The McCann’s insist Maddie is in the clutches of a vile degenerate but simultaneously claim, ‘there is no evidence Madeleine has come to any harm’. Surely the fact that she vanished off the face of the earth three years ago is evidence, in itself, that she has indeed come to very serious harm & if she was abducted by a paedophile, as they claim, she would’ve suffered a truly horrifying ordeal.

    Their friends, the Tapas 7; Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien, Matthew & Rachel Oldfield, David & Fiona Payne, and Dianne Webster have remained silent & virtually in hiding for three years... why? They have done nothing to help the search, in fact they’ve barely mentioned her in three years. They even refused to attend a reconstruction which could have jogged memories & ascertained how and when Maddie was abducted. Incredible as it sounds, the McCann’s say it would be 'injurious' to THEM to return to Portugal for a reconstruction even though their child is supposedly in the hands of a paedophile/paedophile ring. However they are able to return, at the drop of a hat, when the possibility of more money is on the table. .…….no pound unturned.

    Team McCann are adept at raising money for their multi million pound private company through public donations, wealthy benefactors & legal action but apart from a succession of dubious, incompetent private detectives, they have contributed nothing practical towards ‘the search’ in terms of time, effort or money themselves. It’s often reported in the media how families & friends join in & even organise searches to find their missing loved ones but, having collected millions, never once have the McCann’s paid for an organised search in PDL (although their own detectives claim Maddie is still there) let alone search themselves. Not one member of their extended families or any of their friends have ever physically searched for this little girl - truly sad.

    The McCann’s repeatedly say, ‘A child has been taken’, ‘A child has been stolen’, 'A little girl is missing,' but judging by the unfathomable behaviour of Team McCann, you would never guess it was their little girl.

    Nothing about their ‘story’ adds up….. except, of course, the enormous PR campaign comprising; the fund, the spokesman, the battalion of lawyers, the compliant media (The Sun & Mail chosen because they have the biggest circulation), the image consultants & the hijacking of various charities. A huge amount of time, effort & money has been ploughed into a reputationa management operation - as Max Clifford would say ‘Image is everything’.

  187. @187 and 188.....One of the best posts I've ever read here.

  188. 189 I agree Post 187 & 188 is good, it tells it how it really is.
    But for me the silence recently makes me wonder, whats happening with Tanner, Goncarlo Amaral? ...the McCanns are too quiet, possibly planning their next strategy....but not desperately seeking Madeleine, If only the priest could break his vow of silence,If only the PJ would re open the case, If only something would happen that would cause further investigation. I sense a slowing down, a hope that it will all now go away. Is anythin happening, I fear not.....Snr Amaral go get Max Clifford to represent you, that would assist you against this cold hearted, couple who cant have loved their daughter enough to demand a reopening of the case.or as 188 states could not even pay for a thorough search of the area....this is not leaving no stone unturned.

  189. Gerry & Kate (those that used their daughter as a publicity campaign)

    I think your unturned stones have become rolling stones! because you do not seem to have overturned many, only it seems those with pound signs on them. May your fraudulant fund be the ruin of you, and the money turns to overturned pebbles.

  190. Great posts Anon 187 and 188.

    As regards Kate knowing instantly that Madeleine had been taken, she also said she knew because Cuddlecat was on a shelf. She said this on camera so it must be there somewhere.

    Since then the story has changed so that Cuddlecat was on the bed all the time.

    It's a bit like the time Kate was being interviewed on radio and the interviewer asked her whether Madeleine was awake or asleep when she last saw her. What a pause there was, until Kate decided to say 'asleep'. Hadn't she been rehearsed on that one then?

  191. David Payne called THE METROPOLITAN POLICE CHILD ABUSE TEAM for 100 seconds on 4th May 2007 at 23:13:41.


  192. quote
    Incidentally, how would you explain away the 60+ milk teeth that were found in the cellar at Haut de la Garenne? There's proof that they didn't fall out naturally. Do you still believe in the Tooth Fairy?


    65 milk teeth to be precise

    as for the tooth fairy..you have to ask your good friend Bren..it's on record she believed up until aged 21 that such a creature exists


  193. @187 and 188 Your post should be printed in every newspaper in the world.

    I hope one day the McCanns have to explain why they admit the dogs smelled death scent on Kate's clothes (due to dead bodies) and at the same time claim these dogs are unreliable when they smell death scent in the apartment.

  194. Bravo, anonymous 187/188.

    A good analytical and factual assessment on the McCann couple/Tapas 7 (in)actions.

    The G9 (the alias given by Operation Task - PT/UK police authorities to the Tapas 9) have several, clearly observable inconsistencies in their official police statements; in their obvious implicit attitudes and abnormal behaviours that anyone can see in their numerous media appearances & self-promotion documentaries.

    In spite of this knowledge, which has been in the public domain since June 2008 due to a premature, and perhaps already predictable in October 2007, archival of the case by the Portuguese General Attorney/PGR-MP; and regardless of the undeniable reliability of the progress reports made by the several investigative police forces who worked on the case, some of them constituting and others aiding/cooperating with what became known as 'Operation Task' [PJ, MET/NSY, LCP, NPIA, Inter/Europol] and even though their research and conclusions had an analogous and concurring result, that is, the prevalence of one of the lines of the investigation above all the others (which were methodically explored): and their logical shared deduction, fundamented on the data gathered and work experience acumen, was that accidental death, cadaver concealment and kidnap simulation were the most plausible explanations for Madeleine McCann inexplicable disappearance and ensuing G9 condemnable media stunts, unacceptable conduct, and astonishing lack of cooperation with the judicial authorities.

    Nonetheless, the measures that should have been taken by the proper authorities given the aforementioned documented reasons never took place, or were purposefully boycotted: from the constant Home Office delays in answering to the (in)famous rogatory letters; to the external diplomatic and political concerted attempts to disrupt and influence the course of justice; to the use of threats (of the legal or unlawful kind), coercion, intimidation, psychological pressure, perverse legal manipulation and censorship; this methods were systematically (and are still being) used intentionally to keep this case exactly where it is now: archived and forgotten.

  195. So what they are hiding?!!! Are they a group of sexual perverts? all of them?

  196. Isar@194 Can you please post something sensible in order to defend the McCanns. You ignore the difficult questions, so either answer what people have asked you or go play with the tooth fairy.

    Answer this is you can - The dogs smelled cadavarine for sure, and Kate's Lawyers tried to explain that away by saying Kate had been in contact with dead people before her holiday. They accepted the dogs were right, so you should too. If they were right about that why are you saying the were wrong about the other findings they marked in the apartment.

    Secondly - Why have the McCanns not followed up the Smith's sighting

    Thirdly read 187/188 brilliant posts and see if you can defend the McCanns on anything he/she said

    If you cannot answer any of the above sensibly, then please do us all a favour and go away, because you are totally out of your depth on here

  197. anonymous @194

    I don't have a "good friend Bren" to ask what accounts for 65+ (or, according to your nit-picking, 65) milk teeth being found in the cellar at Haut de la Garenne. I asked YOU.

    You failed to support your initial post by flippantly disregarding valid comments and questions arising from it.

    Thus, I take it you don't have any answers and your only purpose here is to spread disinformation and to disrupt.

  198. Joana at 196

    Given that the McCanns had set up the fairy story abduction scenario which supposedly happened when they were absent from the apartment, I doubt the investigators would really be sold on 'accidental death' as being the only way to account for the death of Madeleine.

    Indeed, at one time it looked like Kate McCann was going to be charged in connection with the death of Madeleine, and not with neglect or accident either. Something to do with that diary of hers perhaps?

    Given the Gaspar statements, nothing is simple in this case, and to state categorically that Madeleine died by accident because the McCanns weren't there at the time she died since they were out wining and dining with their friends, is like giving the kiss of death to the investigation. I realise the Prosecutor has said he felt sorry for the McCanns because of their 'loss', yet this case will never get moving again until it is treated as the criminal investigation it should be, that of a murder investigation, until proved otherwise.

    To pass it off as 'probable accidental death' simply will not do, though no doubt the McCanns don't mind a bit as long as they can carry on selling their t shirts and wristbands, and passing round the hat.


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