1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º

Alexandra without the “circus” of the searches for Maddie and Joana

If you have any information concerning this little girl,
please contact the Polícia Judiciária in Portimão immediately:
(00 351) 282 405 400

The little Angolan girl was apparently murdered by her German father, after he drowned her mother on a beach in the Algarve

by Marisa Rodrigues

Alexandra, the little girl aged one-and-a-half that disappeared in Lagos, was not awarded any media-hyped searches or sniffer dogs, contrary to what happened with Madeleine McCann. The PJ does not wish to perform “blind” searches and intends to avoid the “circus” that took place in Praia da Luz, three years ago.

On the terrain, there are no visible actions by the Portuguese authorities, that are mainly investigating the death of the child, who was last seen on the Canavial beach, being led away by Gunnar Dorries, the German citizen who is suspected of drowning Georgina Zito, Alexandra’s mother, only a while earlier.

Apart from the process that is conducted by the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) in Portimão, there is another one being investigated by the homicide department at Munich police. It has been the German investigators, who are not bound by judicial secrecy, who have been releasing details about the case – namely photographs of the suspect and the victims, and the autopsy report.

This week, the Germans have asked the press to publish an appeal that is directed towards tourists who were in Portugal and who may hold clues that assist in unveiling the mystery.

We recall that this was the stance that was adopted by the PJ when Madeleine McCann disappeared. Press conferences were held, photographs of the child were shown, as well as a photofit of the suspect, with a description of the clothes that he allegedly wore on the night of May 3, 2007.

This took place at a time when the process was under judicial secrecy, just like this new case. Now, the PJ is silent, although a press release about this case was prepared, but ended up not being published.

Georgina Zito was killed by drowning on the 10th of July [2010] on Canavial beach, in Lagos, which is hidden by cliffs and isolated. The autopsy revealed that she tried to defend herself and caused injuries on Gunnar, who dragged her onto the sand. Then, the man grabbed the child and said he was going to fetch medication, but never returned.

Three hours later, he arrived alone at the Vila Galé hotel, in Meia Praia [Lagos], which he left in a hurry.

On the 13th he flew to Munich, from Lisbon airport, where he drove in a rented car that was already inspected by the PJ. Two days later, he was arrested at home, due to a European arrest warrant that had been issued by the Portuguese authorities.

Angolan national Georgina, aged 30, had been living in Stuttgart for eight years and was married with an Angolan businessman who had acquired German citizenship. She got involved with Gunnar, aged 43, but the pregnancy caused the end of the relationship. The engineer had a girlfriend and told some friends that he was afraid that his family would not accept a black child.

To Jornal de Notícias, Richard Theiss, a chief detective with the German police, confirmed that “he is suspected of a double homicide”, a crime that was “premeditated before he left for Portugal”, given that Georgina had “demanded DNA tests and alimony in court”. In order to sustain this thesis, relatives and friends of the victims and the suspect have already been questioned.

in: Jornal de Notícias, 29.07.2010

Qualquer informação sobre esta criança (possivelmente já cadáver) deve ser enviada para a PJ de Portimão.

Any information concerning this child (possibly already dead) is to be sent to the Judiciary Police in Portimão.

Informationen ueber dieses Kind (moeglicherweise bereits verstorben) sollen an die Kriminalpolizei in Portimão gesendet werden.

Address: Rua do Pé da Cruz 2, 8501 Portimão, Portugal
Telefone/Phone: (00 351) 282 405 400
Email: dic.portimao@pj.pt
Fax: 282 412 763

Police search for missing child, presumed dead in Lagos area


  1. What a dreadful state of affairs. Poor Alexandra. Poor Georgina. Poor Maddie. What seems clear is that the McCanns have left a legacy. Since police suspect the crime was premeditated before Gunnar left for Portugal, one has to wonder if he specifically chose the Algarve as the place to commit his atrocities :(


  2. Well I must say that Germany is one up on the English government as far as the European Arrest Warrant is concerned. They acted quickly and in a manner which is professional to bring the culprit to justice.

  3. Quote ......The PJ ... intends to avoid the “circus” that took place in Praia da Luz, three years ago.

    No danger of that. Neither the British media nor the 'one who lies with all his teeth' are involved is this.
    Good point ShuBob. Why choose a place that is only 4 Km away from PDL. I wonder if he was planning to leave the hotel doors unlocked and hope for Jane Tanner to come along.

  4. So why are the British media not reporting on this case?

    Or have the McCanns so much power they are running the show?

  5. Eight newborn babies found dead in France

    Latest infanticide case shocks France as parents are described as model citizens

    By Gavin Mortimer
    LAST UPDATED 8:44 AM, JULY 29, 2010

    France is in shock this morning, coming to terms with what appears to be the country's worst case of infanticide. For a nation that prides itself on the strength of its familial bonds, France is at a loss to explain how two parents could have killed eight newborn babies.

    Police were first called to a property in Villers-au-Tertre, near the northern city of Lille, on Saturday after the new owners of the house discovered tiny human bones in the garden. Two bodies were unearthed and police inquiries established that the house originally belonged to an elderly couple whose 40-something daughter lived half a mile away.

    When police sniffer dogs searched the garden of the house the woman shares with her husband, six more bodies of newborn infants were discovered. "I'm still in shock," said Daniel Collignon, the former mayor of the village, as prosecutors prepare to launch a criminal inquiry into the gruesome discovery.

    According to locals, the revelations are all the more startling because the couple were respected members of the community. They are 45-year-old Dominique Cottrez, a nursing assistant, and husband Pierre-Marie Cottrez, a 47-year-old builder. She was charged today with murder and he was charged with concealing the corpses.

    One neighbour described them as "attractive, helpful, polite and courteous people... they had done nothing to suggest that they might be capable of abnormal behaviour". They have lived in the 700-strong village of Villers-au-Tertre since the mid-1990s and Pierre-Marie is a member of the village council. They are reported to have two grown-up daughters and an unspecified number of grandchildren.

    According to French radio, before Dominique was charged today she had confessed to police that she had killed "a dozen" babies since 1988, all without her husband's knowledge, using her nursing skills to deliver the babies in secret.

    France has been blighted in recent years by infanticide scandals with the most recent case being that of Celine Lesage, who earlier this year was sentenced to 15 years in prison for killing six newborn babies between 2000 and 2007. Last year 41-year-old Veronique Courjault was jailed for eight years after being convicted of killing three of her babies, two of whom were found in a freezer


  6. guys, this is your own gig...so carry on as you please

    but 'harvesting' cases where the perp has admitted to infanticide

    to bolster your 'case' against the McCanns

    smacks either of

    a) desperation to propel your argument


    b) bad taste

    either way..logical..or dignified it ain't

    but then again I might be expecting a tad too much


  7. If the german ambassador in Portugal would have shown up at the PJ heaquarters the next day, I bet that the secrecy of justice would have gone out the window fast! But no, Germany is not the UK...Germany respects and abides other countries laws. And Germany does not hold our "premier" by the "you know what" lower parts...no german Freeport case...

  8. if you have a God...let's hope he/she/it is forgiving

    if you don't have a God..you are beggared anyway


  9. ISAR: Nobody is "harvesting" anything, here.

    As you well know, I have come to live in the Western Algarve in late 2002. Since then, we've had the Joana case, then Maddie, and now Alexandra. They are all VERY different cases, with only one thing in common: the children, whether dead or alive, are still missing.

    People may hold information about Alexandra, and the further the word is spread, the better. On this blog, we have readers from many countries, including many British and Germans - which are the main countries of origin for tourists that visit the Lagos area.

    On a personal level, I would expect you to understand why this case touches me. And no, I do NOT collect "clones" of the Maddie case to prove any point whatsoever. To think otherwise is intellectually unfair.

    These children need to be found; whether dead or alive, they deserve to be searched for, their fates deserve to be investigated, and their aggressors - because these children have undoubtedly been the victims of crime - have to be brought to justice.

    I should not need to justify myself for bringing this case to our readers' attention; yet, regardless of what you may or may not think of it, if it helps to bring any piece of information about Alexandra forward, it was well worth enduring your comment (which is nonetheless appreciated).


    Thank you.

  10. Isar,

    Your friends, the Mccann's, left a legacy- How easy is to go abroad and get ride of childs who disturb parents life. Portugal, Spain, Goa, are just few examples showing that there was one time and one world for unfortunate childs before Maddie and the Mccann's and another time and another world more sinister and cruel, after this fake parents and their surreal story. Amazing how their gurus ( spin man, lawyers and close family) fade over the time without moving a single step to really explain the last hours of their little girl or show the world an effective effort to look after her. Become not easy to buy new faked sights of potential abductors or Madeleine's. That was the only step they have done... looking for money, fooling innocents.

  11. Eh! Eh! Kate and Gerry, you don't sleep well. "What go around, come around" and Alexandra is just bringing back Madeleine on her fatidic destiny. TVi said on the news today...."in BOTH CASES, THE POLICE SUSPECT HOMICIDE". No abduction, no matter how many years pass on top of your lies. Homicide is the case for the police ( without Amaral now).
    Alexandra father is in prison without having the support of a Spin Man named by German government. At least, Alexandra and her mum can achieve some justice. Madeleine still abused and ignored on her basic Human rights.

  12. @isar, nobody needs to bolster their case against the mccanns,ASK THE DOGS,with people like you around Maeleine will get no justice at all,hope you are proud of yourself

  13. @Isar Give me your details and I"ll book a flight for you to any place of your choice for a long holiday as I think you certainely need one

  14. ISAR,why don't you go back onto the Madeleine thread on the Sky discussion forum,we all know who you are,we know all you care about is the McCanns protection and your well known for discrediting those professionals who have said they are suspicious of the McCanns and their tapas pact.IE Yvonne Warren,Goncarlo Amaral,Mrs Fenn,Mark Harrison,Mark Grimes and Eddie and Keela and many more have been trashed by you and your pathetic little gang over there,as for mentioning God,the McCanns can't believe in God that's why they are able to do what they do.

  15. have the mccanns latched themselves on to this case yet?i didnt thinks so.

  16. Wouldn't it be ironic if the police found Maddie's remains while searching for little Alexandra. The McCanns can never rest because it could always be something totally unconnected with the crime which comes up unexpectedly to unravel everything. You just never know.

  17. Anon-13!
    Very graceful. Love it! Isar is like a joker. It's impossible to take It seriously.
    You made me laugh. Thank you!

  18. Who is this 'ISAR'? What a stupid ignorant and self serving statement.

    It is obvious that people who care about the abuse of children will mention cases here and it is obvious that the differences in the way the cases are handled (and indeed ignored in the case of the UK)by the press and the authorities will be highlighted and parallels drawn.

    What is more interesting is that people who are clearly defenders of the fraudsters McCann bother to hunt around for blogs to try to negate and attack and distract. This has been the ploy of team McCann since the early days - as a writer on the Anorak site (a long since banned writer!) I recognise the ploy.

    Best thing to do is ignore them.

    Incidentally, I now always refer to the McCann's as 'the fraudsters McCann' - I could well use the term 'liars' as neither can be the basis of a libel suit - there is absolute irrefutable proof in the McCann's own words that they are liars and their fraud is also undeniable. They calim as a fact that Madeleine was abducted - a claim based on no evidence whatsoever. We can therefore make a claim that she was not abducted and also need no evidence whatsoever! What is good for the goose, as they say, is good for the gander!

  19. Isar,Would you just admit that leaving 3 babies to "babysit themselves" is acceptable behaviour,then I will know exactly why you continually insult people who WOULD NEVER chose to put their own selfish "needs" before their childrens safety.PLEASE tell me you are NOT a father!!! PLEASE ,

  20. @Anon 10

    They are ONLY fooling themselves now.Believe me and this, is their fall

    @Anon 13 excellent idea! :))

    @Anon 14 well said

  21. Isar
    Sounds like the lights are on but no ones at home. Wake up!

  22. isar is of no concequence,nobody take him/her seriously,but isnt it a shame that he/she doesnt put as much effort into exposing the mccanns for the liars they are and to try to get justice for little madeleine beth mccann.

  23. @8 What does beggared mean?

  24. Isar - in any scientific obsevation, we have to 'compare and contrast.'
    That is what we are doing here - weighing different evidence - and look at the difference so far!

  25. If ISAR is not being paid by the McFund, he/she should be. Using all the right words, attempting to twist the truth about our motivation for NOT accepting the lies or the cover-up. Its a well known trick to bring God into the equation, attempting to *shame* truthseekers who DO believe in God and DO believe that God and justice are intertwined.

    Eddie & Keela's results, the implausible Tapas timeline, Gerry laughing on the balcony, the Smith sighting, the impossibility of sedation of 3 children in the amount of time claimed, the impossibility of removing a child through the window, the lack of ANY suspects other than the McCanns themselves, Kate McCann's fingerprints on the window and no other prints, Jayne Tanner claiming that she didn't inform Kate right away about the Eggman because she "didn't want to upset her", the liars attempting to frame Murat, the savage attempt to ruin Goncalo Amaral's reputation, the mortgage payments made from the Find Madeleine Fund, and most telling of all...at the very beginning, Kate leaving the twins alone in the apartment and screaming "They've taken her".

    Kate, we know you read this blog. It is obvious that when you yelled "they've taken her" you KNEW who THEY were and you knew that by saying "HER", the others would not think of Amelie but would know you meant Madeleine.

    This is never going to change. We KNOW that YOU KNOW and we know that you are preventing justice to finally be done for YOUR OWN LITTLE GIRL, who I believe you loved.

    How can you get through one day to the next living this lie? Settle it - tell the truth. Endure whatever consequences justice hands you and then live on and be a good mother for your surviving children. You owe it to them, if not to the world. They will grow up, Kate, and they, like us, will know you have attempted to get away with crimes. How will you teach them to live as decent citizens when they discover you have not? Will they think they are above the law as you apparently believe yourself to be? Do you want them to have a chance at life or are you willing to sacrifice those beautiful children to save yourself from fair punishment? What kind of mother could do a thing like that?

  26. Good point Caroline @ 16. Look at the French evil mother who killed her 8 babies. When she thinks she went away with her crimes, justice just starts trough the hands of the new owners of her house who decide to do some work on her cemitery garden. I can't imagine the horror, the panic and the nightmare that new family went trough when they found the plastic bags with remains of the babies.
    Even that evil mother manage to confess and pay for what she have done. The british couple still trying to fool the world with their lies and their stupid lawyers, who over the time will end like them- loosing the respect of the public and all the credits.
    Unfortunately, the Algarve is too vaste and too wilde to look for Madeleine. But one day, who knows something will tell the police where she was concealed. That crime involve much more people then just the Tapas 9. They had the help of somebody knowing well the surrounds of PDL. Maybe somebody with a house where PJ can go in just with authorization of a judge and after strong suspictions.

  27. Italian gag law threatens bloggers with €25,000 fines for ‘incorrect' facts


    EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Bloggers, podcasters and even anyone who posts updates on social networks such as Facebook all face being slapped with fines of up to €25,000 for publishing incorrect facts, if a bill that journalists' organisations are calling "authoritarian" currently before the Italian parliament is passed.

    Bloggers could face huge fines for factual errors on their sites

    A provision within the government's Media and Wiretapping Bill will extend Italy's "obbligo di rettifica", or rectification obligation - a law dating back to 1948 that requires newspapers to publish corrections - to the internet and indeed anyone "responsible for information websites".

    According to the draft law, bloggers and other online publishers - which lawyers believe includes users of Facebook and Myspace - will be obliged to post corrections within 48 hours of any complaint regarding their content.

    If authors do not comply, they face fines of up to €25,000. European digital rights campaigners and Italian journalists warn that the move could darken much of Italian cyberspace as for small-scale bloggers, website owners and even those who comment on discussion pages, it would be a near impossibility to deal with a complaint within the alloted time span.

    Furthermore, warns the European Digital Rights (EDRI), a pan-European coalition of online civil liberties advocacy organisations, the law implies that bloggers must register with a legal domicile with some authority, facing the same bureaucratic formalities as the written press and that they will have to connect to the internet every single day in order to check whether there is a request for correction and place the correction in due time.

    Attempts to soften the law by extending the correction period and reducing the fine to €2500 were rejected last week by the head of the chamber's justice committee.

    EDRI warned on Wednesday in a statement that the law "will add new barriers to freedom of expression on the internet," and "would discourage bloggers who will hesitate to write on economical or political issues that might bother certain personalities."

    continues bellow

  28. The bill as a whole, whose main purpose is to restrict the use of wiretapping and the ability of publications to quote wiretap transcripts, has provoked an outcry by journalists.

    The law proposes to prohibit the publication of transcripts of wiretap recordings, leaks of which in recent years have become something of a staple in the Italian press, particularly in cases of alleged government corruption and organised crime - and indeed Prime Minister Berlusconi.

    Journalists or editors that publish such transcripts would face fines of up to €464,700.

    The government defends the bill as a necessary to protect the privacy of individuals that are the targets of judicial investigations.

    "In Italy, we are all spied on. There are 150,000 telephones that are tapped and it is intolerable," Mr Berlusconi recently said, explaining why the law was required.

    On 8 July, the FNSI press union led a publication strike in which most of the country's newspapers apart from a handful of conservative papers and ones published by Prime Minister Berlusconi's media empire. The press "black-out" was intended to "show the kind of silence that the law would impose," according to the union.

    Reporters Without Borders told EUobserver the law was "authoritarian".

    "This is not just an attempt to gag bloggers and actually all journalists, but more widely it is about stopping the investigation of corruption and organised crime," said Olivier Basille, the head of the group's Brussels office.

    "Privacy is important, but in these sort of cases, the public interest in knowing this information outweighs such concerns," he continued.

    He said the bill should be seen as an embarrassment by the whole of the European Union: "This is an important issue for Italy, but it is crucial for the EU. Italy is sending a signal to countries beyond the EU that it is okay to severely restrict press freedoms."

    continues bellow

  29. "When the EU speaks to China or Syria or whoever about press freedoms, they will say, ‘Ah, but the EU is already doing the same thing.'"

    "It's not just Italy though. There are problems with Ireland, Bulgaria and Romania as well. In January last year, Ireland passed an anti-blasphemy law under which you can be fined €20,000. When our organisation raised concerns about a journalist being jailed for blasphemy in the Yemen, they said right back to us: ‘But Ireland does the same thing,' and to some extent they're right."

    Reporters Without Borders has complained to the commission about the Italian law "several times", but the commission "cannot oppose this because it is not related to commerce, the single market, these sorts of things."

    Commission fundamental rights spokesman Matthew Newman told this website that Brussels will wait until the final law is passed before commenting on whether any aspect contravenes EU law. "It's a moving target at the moment, with all sorts of amendments. It's too early to comment."

    In response, the Reporters Without Borders has written to European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, hoping that at the member-state level some pressure could be brought to bear on Rome.

    While Brussels is keeping quite on the legislation, the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe in June condemned the bill in June, saying it ""could seriously hinder investigative journalism in Italy."

    Mr Berlusconi's arch-rival in his conservative People of Freedom party, Gianfranco Fini, has also sharply criticised the draft law.

    The bill was due to be discussed by Italian MPs on Thursday, as the government had hoped to have it passed before the summer recess at the end of the month. Due to agenda problems, it is now expected to be considered some time in early September.

    In 2007, the country's then centre-left government of Romano Prodi proposed a similar bill that was subsequently abandoned. Journalists went on strike to protest that legislation as well.


  30. @ 25 you KNOW..a lot of things..

    why don't you hop down to your nearest copshop with your KNOWLEDGE

    and get the case re-opened?


  31. @ 24

    compare & contrast

    one's an obsolete

    feel free though to believe the McCanns are evil

    anything that gets you through the day


  32. Isar and others: make comments, not personal petty remarks; if you want to continue in that style then I advise to you go to other places and/or use a messenger/chat to do that... this is about Alexandra. End off.

  33. It interesting that while some in the EU are attempting to restrict what some class as free speech, the USA have decided that they do not have to comply with foreign libel judgements. They have said that they do not agree with the libel tourism and have brought in a Securing the Protection of our Enduring and Established Constitutional Heritage (Speech) Act.


  34. The judicial secretary of Portugal’s laws urgently needs to be reviewed.

    When Madeleine disappeared there was little official information coming from Portugal and this enabled the Mccanns to feed the public their abduction theory and as this gained momentum they were able to set up their fraudulent fund and employ their family to run it. Factual information was not available from the PJ we were fed spin and lies by the mccanns, the shutters had not been tampered with – newspaper headlines yelled they had been jemmied. Kate not even bothering to go outside and look for her daughter that night, we did not read any of this.
    Gerry blogging every day giving strength to the abduction scenario to raise more funds, collections at football matches, celebrities making appeals, collection boxes in the Algarve, maddie on-line store selling bracelets - the money making enterprise of team mccean knew no bounds, Clarence Mitchell informing the public ‘just send your money in an envelope marked Kate and Gerry Rothley’ and if that wasn’t enough the suing of the media or any other persons who dare speak out against this money making machine.
    If he had been the distraught father he claimed why was he not out searching for his daughter, tearing the country apart, co-operating with the police. How could they have been in a mind to go jogging or to sit in a church when their little girl was missing presumed abducted by paedophiles?
    Then the photo-opportunities started first with the Pope, and then flying off to Washington and Europe, the staged interviews, Creating ‘Brand Mccann’ and all the while the consistent lies were reinforced by their body language.
    The entire group refused to co-operate with a reconstruction. They attempted to discredit the dogs that detected cadaver only on items handled by Kate and Gerry. Taking part in charity fund raising days, not raising money for the charities concerned, but instead their own private fund. Attending memorial services.
    If the Maddie case had been more transparent from the beginning with regular news bulletins from Portugal Kate and Gerry would have been found guilty long ago. Instead they have been given the time to amass a fortune, employ lawyers that will attempt to prevent them ever facing justice. Even now our media Express and Co print nothing but what team mccann tell them to print. What about the superinjunctions they have imposed, books they have banned, when were criminals ever allowed such freedom to dictate to the police and media.
    The crime against Madeleine is not the only punishable crime involved there is also fraud and deception. At present Kate and Gerry and their team of lawyers are calling all the legal shots and dictating how the case should be run.
    A grave crime was committed a child has lost her life through her parents actions, none of those involved has co-operated with the police, their guilt is their silence and their statements are full of inconsistencies. Sr Amaral took the correct course of action by naming them as suspects but because they had been given the time and opportunity to set in motion their ridiculous abduction theory of which there was not one shred of evidence they were able to return to the UK and continue their fund raising whilst the media attempted to ruin Sr Amaral and trash the reputation of the Portuguese police. This case urgently needs to be re-opened and those guilty brought to justice.

  35. anon 35 Summed everything up in a nutshell, right to the point, very very good The Portugese law has been very much at fault in allowing the Maccanns to go free, throw in Gordon Brown and you are Innocent. They have made Portugal a laughing stock, and will continue to do so
    If this pair and their friends ever pay for what they did it will be down to Mr Amaral, and blogs like this people can make a differece, we need to keep the pressure on.
    Madelaine did not deserve this, Mr Amaral did not deserve this, Portugal did not deserve this. The Maccanns deserve all that will come to them, and come to them it will.

  36. Does anyone know what has happened to the "Mccann unravels" "thenrewere4" blogspot?


  37. Anon 35

    How right you are.

    If only somebody official was speaking out and giving the correct information instead of allowing Clarence Mitchell to 'lie through every tooth in his head' as the PJ said, and nothing done to stop him.

  38. Poster 36 Mary from Liverpool is partially correct. Madeleine did not deserve this and neither did Mr Amaral. I'm not sure if Portugal did not deserve this. If the powers-that-be in Portugal allow these two scumbags to walk all over Mr Amaral then their country deserves to be a laughing stock. And the signs are that is exactly what is going to happen. They complied with the British Government in sabotaging the original investigation which made the McCanns arguidos. They have defied their own constitution and placed an injunction on Mr Amaral's book. This case is sickening. The fact that this evil pair were protected by the governments of two countries was bad enough. The subsequent celebrity-status given to them by the British Media (the cloying interviews, the Channel 4 documentary, the invitation to be on a religous programme on Radio2 on Mother's Day etc) not to mention their speaking at the European Parliament, Gerry speaking at a CEOP conference etc.-it makes me want to vomit. Yes Mr Cameron "Broken Britain" indeed.

  39. Anon @ 35 - brilliant spot on.

  40. Looks like Isar is finally gone on holiday! Lets hope he/she has taken his "mccann travelling pack"!!!!!

  41. Jo,

    Do we have to put up with this foolish person 'ISAR'? Their intent is clearly to disrupt and not to debate - this is and has always been the Team McCann ploy. They haave always sought to distract and also have rigidly adhered to the legal line to avoid the elements of a neglet charge whilst putting forward neglect as their only 'crime' (i.e. avoiding any engagement with other possible criminal activity).

    If you know who ISAR is, then perhaps you could decide if they are independant and therefore are valid and ignore my suggestion (leaving up to individuals if they respond). If they are not independant and not therefore playing on a level playing field with us, I respectfully suggest you do not allow them to abuse your good nature and willingness to hear another side - and reject their posts as disruptive and not valid input to the discussion.

  42. hypothetical question

    if any of the posters who are so fervently convinced Madeleine passed away in the OC in May 2007, were to holiday in Portugal/Spain/Morocco

    and you'd see a 7-8 year old blonde girl with a Colomba in her eye, say at a local market

    would you

    a) intervene..ask the girl in English..'Are you Madeleine ?' and scream for the cops if there were any residual doubts upon the answer

    b) ring 999 or the eqivalent in those countries on the sly ?

    c) continue nursing your cappucino and turn a blind eye...as you just KNOW that girl must be a ghost - the forum told you after all

    d) any other reaction or lack thereof

    I am genuinely interested in your views....ad hominems are a waste of time..so best keep it civil



  43. I do not believe that Madeleine is alive.

    But if just for a split second, Isar, if I saw a child that had any resemblance to Madeleine's facial traits, with the appearance of a 6 year old child, who wouldn't probably be in a "tuppence worth" physical and psychological condition - a Madeleine that surely is not represented in the «stylized US Madeleine» farcical progressive portrait that was broadcast to the entire world via Oprah, with the full support of NMEC (it must be their software all the girls look similarly American independently of their nationality) and CEOP - but just for the sake of granting you with an answer, even if realistically the odds are even lower of 1 in 10^7. If I saw a girl similar to Madeleine I would immediately make a phone call to the operator, and request the phone number of the nearest police station; I would also attempt to follow the girl as discreetly as possible, at a distance, so I wouldn't loose her from sight.

    I would not interfere, to do that could be disastrous and totally compromise the police work. And this is really the important part, I would not intervene in a manner that could create far much more danger to the child, risking the possibility of her being... you know, murdered.

    What I most certainly would never do was to grab the child like some stupid brainless hysterical people did with the Croatian soccer player, Dino Drpic's son, a two year old boy, not even a girl...

    Nor I would endanger the child by selling and exposing her pictures to the media like some «biatch» did in Bushra's case, knowing perfectly well that it wasn't Madeleine.

    Nor I would fall for the obscene plight of other children's demise and the tragedies that befall upon those families, by perpetuating the abusive spins fabricated by some unscrupulous people just to gain "my 15 Warholian infamous minutes" of TV «stardomness», like a certain wannabe Aussie did recently.

    Is your curiosity mitigated?

    Boa Noite!

  44. Does Isar suffer from some OCD Disorder
    whereby he

    hits the return


    just wondered!!!

    well done Joana great post at 44 and 35 says it how it is, time for this case to be reopened.

  45. For Isar -

    Who clearly dismisses all the wrongs, lies, discrepancies and purposely shaped misleading information released to the media, in tv interviews and documentaries, told by the McCann’s and their friends, in so doing endangering Madeleine further should she be alive, I ask:

    1. What drives you to do this to Madeleine, endanger her further?

    2.Why would you care so little about a little girl, that you would choose not to see what is in front of your face sitting right at the end of your nose, in favour of supporting parents who have behaved as they have – done everything in their power it would seem to prevent the truth being known?

    3. Why would you be complicit?

    If you believe Madeleine is alive, you must know that she will be in a ‘bad way’ yet you support the McCann’s and their friends in their continued NON co-operation with police authorities.

    4. Why would any decent human being do that to a child who is being tortured daily?

    5. Why do you do that Isar allow Madeleine to be tortured daily?

    6. Does this give you some kind of sick pleasure?

    7. More importantly Isar, why would the parents of the child allow this?

    You appear to know them so well, perhaps you have not met them, but you appear to know them well, it is on that basis that I ask the above.

    One would have to know someone very well, be of the same ilk, to support them in NON co-operation with police authorities investigating the disappearance of their child.

    One would have to be of the same ilk, to not acknowledge the obvious lies and maltreatment of the children in the McCann party who holidayed in PDL.

    One would have to be of the same ilk to allow a child to suffer the pain which Madeleine is, if alive.

    I can only conclude that they, the McCann’s, and you are not decent human beings and as such I do not expect you to be able to answer.
    Your narcissistic, cold and callous natures, do not allow you to ‘feel’ anything for others. Doesn’t allow you the capacity for love, compassion, caring or to seek justice for a little girl who was let down so badly by her uncaring parents and now who if alive, desperately needs help more than ever.

    But you and I both know, that the help she needs will not come from them or you. Not in a month of Sunday’s Isar.


  46. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt Isar, I did with you also, just as I did with the McCann's when Madeleine was first reported as missing. But any doubts/thoughts that I may be misjudging you, that perhaps you are not as cold and callous, lack human kindness, or that maybe somewhere deep down you do care for Madeleine, were dispelled by your comment as follows:


    You see Isar only someone with a sick and twisted mind would behave as you describe, and only someone suffering from a more sick and twisted mind would suggest such a scenario.

    Kate McCann also in interview made such a suggestion!

    I thought it sick then coming from the mother of the missing child. But then realised this is exactly what Kate McCann did, she ignored her own child when she told her she and her brother had cried, as though the child was invisible. So I can understand that persons of your ilk would think in this way. No one can change this, you are what you are.

    I am not shocked by this – it is your ‘make-up’ the way you and they are. You lack capacity to care for others, so it is all that one can expect from you.

    It is best that you are supporting the Drs McCann as you understand their wicked ways perfectly.

    I don't think there is a decent human being in the land who would argue that Madeleine deserves so much more than to be associated with you or your ilk. You are no loss to those who support justice for this child. You are no loss to Madeleine!

    I’m glad Joana allows you to post on this site.

    You are the perfect reminder of why we must never stop fighting for justice for this child, why it is so very important never to lose sight of that, and to never give up.

    When there are people like you out there Isar who try at every turn to put a spoke in the wheels of those seeking justice for this child you give us strength and reason to continue.


  47. Isar
    hypothetical question.

    If you were on holiday with friends who were parents to children below the age of 4, and they were leaving them unattended while they drank and ate at a nearby restuarant ....would you think this is acceptable.....if they were returning every 30 minutes?


  48. 44- charming Joana! I am with you!

  49. @A.Miller 48

    Thanks for your answer.
    That Isar "person" is a rather sick one.
    I am actually wondering if it is not the mccann woman really...it wouldnt surprise me in the least.Same kind of thinking,no heart and a perverse pleasure in asking bloggers what they would do if....
    Do you know what I would do if I met you "Isar"??? mmmm....may better if you dont know nor even imagine it.

  50. joana your site is a breath of fresh air in the world we live in today in the uk. censorship is everywhere but i must also agree that the flow of information will never be stopped. humans talk after so long, they have real problems when it comes to keeping secrets and needing money, something the mccs know a lot about, i wonder how long it will be before they cannot afford to keep peoples mouths closed. if only there was a whistleblower on this case. then we may have a chance to find out what did happen to madeleine mccann.
    i personally couldnt give a rats ass about the parents but that little girl deserves justice as do all missing children. as for isar its amazing to me that after all this time how can someone argue over these supposed parents when they have NEVER looked for their daughter at all the nite she dissapeared??????

    to dark my arse......
    s uk

  51. SARA PAYNE has, as a result of her hard work,brought together a hope that parents can now know if a "child abuser"lives near them.Years ago , she ,SARA and another dedicated lady,SHY KEENAN had tried JUST AS HARD to bring about a EUROPEAN CHILD RESCUE ALERT system,but were prevented from achieving their goal,because they were UNABLE,however hard they tried to TRACK DOWN AND LOBBY, MEPs it was near on impossible,but they didn,t stop trying.However ,when the news broke that little Madeline MaCaan had DISAPPEARED ,what they saw unfold in the first 5 days of her disappearance reinforced the importance of THEIR AIM , the NEED FOR A EUROPEAN CHILD RESCUE ALERT TEAM,so with that impetus they carried on .Meanwhile ,the macaans with all their "contacts" were able to visit Strasbourg (and Washington,to research Amber Alert)and called for the European Parliament to back an EU -wide, missing child alert system.THEY GOT THE BACKING OF AT LEAST 393 MEPs,just what was needed for the legistation to be considered,I feel all the hard work those 2 women did for years ,getting NOWHERE ,and along come the macaan publicity machine,and the MEPs did what they should have done for Sara and Shy.My point being,why was everyone falling over themselves to pander to those two ???? Even though it did thankfully achieve what Sara and Shy had been working on for years !!! SO TODAY SARA,families all over Great Britain will be still thanking you for your selfless hard ,hard work,THEN and NOW .

  52. to Joana (44): sensible way of doing things-I'd do the same

    to 47 :


    Why would any decent human being do that to a child who is being tortured daily?


    and you know this how ?


  53. to 42:

    vaild point entirely: it's all down to agendas

    my agenda is pretty mundane-to cut through the propaganda/mis-information/false-flag operations/ smearing & spinning that have surrounded this case from day 1. Regardless of what quarter these came from.

    I'd like to think I am an independent (albeit, not always correct) thinker

    This forum can block me anytime they like-as I said before..it's your gig and I did not realise I had to tick the box 'to post on here you must agree that the McCanns murdered their daughter and are very, very bad people' - when I registered.

    So, no skin off my nose - suppose any forum owner needs to decide whether they want a mutual-appreciation society or a platform for open, candid debate.

    Their call whether they want to allow my blatherings or not.

    To address your principal point...no, I don't know or have ever met the McCanns - and have no intention of doing so. I also don't do 'teams' or follow 'leaders'.

    Make of that what you will.

    Enough of me, now purchase my book: 'The wisdom of Paul the oracle squid'

    ISBN 4783321 from any good bookshop RRP £ 12.99


  54. Don't know if the McCanns killed Madeleine physically, but they killed her mentally, a thousand times. I wonder why the McCanns did and do kill their daughter mentally if they expect her to be found alive and to come home? Imo there is only one answer: the McCanns know Madeleine is dead. Like her proud father said: at least she will be in a better place. Right Gerry.

    Thank you Joana, A. Miller and all the other posters who never stop fighting for justice.

  55. 49 Just worth pointing out that it is unlikely that this was actually happening - however if we assumed it did, they were not actually viewing the children as was revealed by Kate McCann herself when she said she would have left without entering the bedroom had she not noticed the door open - so she admitted that her intention was only to listen. The pointlessness of listening is proved by the fact that at that point (before noticing the door was in a different position) she had not actually detected that Madeleine wasnt there! Of course, as I said, this checking is probably all fabrication anyway - who knows what this is all about!

  56. 57......its all part of the cover up story "keep to the official line" as Justine McGuiness once urged Gerry . The Question was purely hypothetical for Isar to answer. ( I forgot to add to the scenario about been in a foreign country and this from parents apparently educated doctors, people that should be at the forefront of understanding how quickly accidents can happen and the dangers...30 mins away from there children is there account of the intervals ....the point been this defence story they use as something that "falls within the bounds of reasonable parenting" .....its neglect pure and simple, no ifs,no buts!).
    However i agree with you that the mccanns and tapas friends accounts of what happened are a diversion, it is not the truth of what happened and doesnt even fit together correctly, and that with the alterations that they have been allowed to make, even then its no wonder they ran a mile when asked to do a reconstruction.
    You see
    I believe this should be a murder inquiry.
    I beleieve that the truth to this case will be alarming.
    Ofcourse the masses who have not seen the files but only had exposure to the UK media lies are forgiven for their confused understandings...but even the majority of them can smell a rat/s.
    The Truth will emerge, there will be a shift eventually in this whole one sided affair.
    The death and covering up of a innocent 3y/o girl.

    The national security line is total C@>P.....its to prevent finding who in the goverment and other official bodies have assisted in this cover up.

    I once was ready to forgive many who helped initially thinking they had been duped.
    No Longer.
    There is enough in the files that can be seen to show that there is something very very wrong going on.
    So if they read here ....i would like to say to them how big and brave you are continuing the lie.

    nobody or any law will take my freedom of speech ever.

  57. I think very few people believe Maddie was "murdered", it is most people's theory, based on EVIDENCE, that Maddie died as a result of an accident. What we are accusing the McCanns and their "team" (which includes the British government) of doing is concealing Maddie's body after her death, setting up a fraudulent business that masquarades as a "charity", ruining the lives of people like Robert Murat and Goncalo Amaral in order to avoid any consequences for their actions, and enjoying the celebrity status they somehow achieved in the middle of all of this.

    The web of deceipt is really not so tangled. It is a straight line from "They've taken her" to Eddie showing the world exactly where that innocent child's body lay and that she was later transported in the boot of the McCann's hire car. It is a straight line from the calls to relatives claiming the "jemmied windows" to the forensics showing only Kate McCann's fingerprints on that window.

    We are not cruel people because we will not lay down and accept being lied to or seeing pensioners and children pay for the McCann's mortgage. We are not vindictive people because we won't stay silent while watching Dr. Amaral being maligned and censored. And we are not lemmings who will jump off the cliff because Clarence Mitchell, who has been proven a liar (Antonio Jimenez story is just one example of Mitchell's many lies on behalf of the cover-up.)

    I'm sorry that ISAR is not hearing us and instead choosing to throw out meaningless insults that won't make a bit of difference to those of us determined to see this through until the truth is finally told. Debate is fine, but ISAR listens to nobody, IMO, and therefore is best ignored while we continue to analyse the case and make clear our unwillingness to give up the quest for justice.

  58. Gerry McCann spoke about a 'moment of madness' alluding to some kind of accident, but I can't remember the exact words he used now.

    Well Gerry, was that 'moment of madness' really a moment of murder. It only takes an instant to form the intent to kill and then follow through with it. That is murder.

    Could somebody be trying to fool themselves.

  59. Just two brief comments:

    #49 mentions the supposed 30 minutes interval for checks, I say not even that! From Kate and Gerry we learned that they only decided to thighten up the checks ( after a ONE minute thoughtfull consideration of the the matter!) to 30 minutes, after Madeleine said she had been crying the night before! It's only natural to ask: HOW LONG WERE THE CHECKING INTERVALS BEFORE??? Hourly, an hour and 3 quarts, NO checking at all?( I bet on the later)

    And Isar, #54, wrote:

    "to 47 :


    Why would any decent human being do that to a child who is being tortured daily?


    and you know this how ?"

    Well, once again from the horse's mouth, Mr. and Mrs. McCann!
    They claimed that Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, that there are paedophile rings operating freely in Portugal, another guest at the O. Club overheard Gerry talking on the phone precisely about this.
    Since it's obvious for the average person what paedos do to children, of why/what they want/snatch children for, the fact that Madeleine might be unharmed to this day is an impossibility.
    Only another paedo would not consider what Madeleine is living daily as torture!!!

  60. We should not give too much attention to Isar 'delirium'. He or she seems to be part of Mccann's/Tapas gang and paying attention, comenting or replying to him/her is exactly what realise the Mccann's and give them some happiness. Leave them talk to the wall or to their belly-bottom. Nobody believe madeleine is alive and they are the first one who know that this is the truth. By trying to persuade the world insisting in an alive Madeleine, happy at the hands of an evil person, they are only fooling themselves and later or soon their mistake will fall exactly on top of their heads, killing them.
    There is crimes which never go away, no matter how many time pass over them. Madeleine or Maddie, is one of that crimes. At Mccannfiles we can see the news about the new nightmare the Mccann's will went trough- A German book where the author achieve the same conclusion as the police: Maddie died on May 3 2007 and her parents are involved. The book is the result of an investigation of many issues in Madeleine case, including the police investigation, Mccann's behaviour, their interviews and their blog.
    Wonder to see if they are going to hire a German lawyer to stop that book to be translated in english and portuguese. Congratulations to the German lady who had the courage to break the silence and bring to light the bizarre lies of the Mccann's, as parents, and the injustice done to little Madeleine.

  61. I really don't believe the PJ don't know where Maddie's body is.
    This is impossible.
    For some reason they are keeping this secret,imo.
    If the pink blanket was transported out of 5A, the PJ must have noticed it while it was happening.
    But perhaps only the body and the blanket would not be enough to bring the guilty one to justice, although I still believe it was an accident.
    The PJ must be needing something else.
    And the cadaver is being preserved somewhere, a freezer maybe, and that will be not difficult for an autopsie, later.
    That could be the reason why the PJ are not in a hurry.
    Why was the body hidden?
    And why are the PJ not telling us where the corpse is?

  62. Well said anon 61,ISAR is on here to disrupt ,divert and spin,as she does on the sky discussion thread on Madeleine,to the majority on there this case is all about protecting the McCanns,one of the avid McCann followers says Madeleine was 'nicked from the apartment'it is though she is on a par when a purse or car has been 'nicked'it's terrible,one other follower purtpurts to be a policewoman but then trashes a fellow policeman(Goncarlo Amaral) and the police dogs Eddie and Keela,and the McCann followers accuse all of those who question the McCanns fairy tale of being nutters,conspiraloons etc.They are all so cocksure that the McCanns will never face jail,but they hope that Amaral faces jail,and one of the worst things is they defend the murderers Cipriano and her brother,saying how the poor things were beaten up,in answer to that i for one don't give a flying figg if they were beaten up after what they did to that poor child.

  63. Anon 61
    Precisely. The mantra that M has come to no harm is inexcusable, and must surely be one of the main factors in showing the McCanns in their true colours. Even being away from her family for 3 years would be thought of my most normal parents as torture. To maintain that she is in the hands of Pae***s, but still coming to no harm is beyond belief.

    "Why this is hell, nor am I out of it. Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God and tasted the eternal joy of Heaven, am not tormented with ten thousand hells in being deprived of everlasting bliss?"
    Marlowe, Faustus

    I think they have slipped well beyond the rational

  64. @PeterMac 66

    "I think they have slipped well beyond the rational" and out of this world,certainely....They are very very sick people.
    Even though,I still believe justice will be made to Madeleine.They will not escape it.

  65. If Madeleine had died by accident that would have been easy for a resourceful couple like the McCanns to have covered.

    It would be so easy to have put the time of finding her to the next morning and say she must have died whilst walking in her sleep.

    If death was caused by an overdose of drugs to make her sleep she would have died in bed, which is where Kate McCann said she left her.

    There was no cadaver scent alerted to in her bedroom.

    Madeleine died behind the settee. How did she get there?

    That is the question.

    Why did she have to be hidden?

    That is another question, but presumably because somebody didn't want the body to be seen.

  66. Steve Kingston wrote of a laryngeal blood spray pattern on the wall behind the sofa,but was taken off the bbc website,why?.

  67. 69, what is a laryngeal blood spray pattern?

  68. to 61..

    comment noted and duly recorded

    ta for being soooo outspoken


  69. ANON 62


    "Do produce a body"

    Tell us where you left it 62? isar? Gerry? Kate?

  70. @62
    help open the case!
    Let the case be investigated without interference!

    what a strange response to my post.
    can i ask you to find me an abductor?
    catch 22
    lets look at all the other evidences found in the official police files...

    oh dear.

  71. Anon 62 - funny, Mr McCann said the same thing... "Find the body and prove we killed her."



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