1.Everyone shall possess the right to freely express and publicise his thoughts in words, images or by any other means, as well as the right to inform others, inform himself and be informed without hindrance or discrimination 2.Exercise of the said rights shall not be hindered or limited by any type or form of censorship Constitution of the Portuguese Republic, Article 37.º

The Gaspar Statements: Cover Letter from Leicestershire Police, 24 Oct 2007

From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall

Dept.: Leicestershire Police, Phone nr. 0116 2484409

To: Ricardo Paiva

Ref.: David Payne

Date: October 24, 2007


Please find enclosed Arul and Katherina Gaspar’s statements, as requested.

I have carefully read the written questionnaire that was handed over by David Payne, but I was unable to extract any other information apart from what is already known.

He states that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 5 pm on the 3rd of May, 2007, in the McCanns’ apartment. Kate and Gerry were equally present then. He did not state the reason why he was in the apartment at that time, or what they were doing. He does not state for how long he stayed there, either.

When he was asked with who he was in the evening of the 3rd of May, he states that he has already given that information to the police and that he cannot remember if he was aware of anyone else.

He cannot recall what he was wearing that afternoon.

In fact, he participated in the search, but for most of the time, he was alone. Sometimes he was accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not participate in the searches that took place on the 4th of May, because he spent most of that day at the police station.

To many of the questions there is no full reply, stating merely and he has already supplied the Portuguese police with the information / statements.

I have again examined Fiona Payne’s information. In her statement, she says that she went to the McCanns’ apartment at around 7 pm on the 3rd of May, along with Kate. She states that the husband arrived 10 minutes later; it is unclear what husband she is referring to, whether it’s Gerry or her own husband.

Her replies to the written questionnaire are vague, as she replies to the questions saying “according to my statement” or using a similar expression.

in: Processo 201/07.0 GALGS, pages 3909 and 3910 (Volume XIII)


  1. The Maccann book is on Amazon to order in April so is Mr Amaral's but not in English. Has our friend got more than his arm up his sleeve, lets hope he has.

  2. Then David Payne went to the Mccann's apartment before going to Cafe paraiso? At 6:13 he was recorded in Cafe paraiso CCTV with his wife Fiona who went to Mccann's apartment at 7:00. The Mccann's were not at Cafe Paraiso. Seems that something very important was going on on Mccann's apartment that afternoon that keep them struggled inside and their friends busy going on and out. Some cleaning?
    Was it Payne who passed at the Tennis court when Gerry was having a lesson and Gerry ask him to go to his apartment and help Kate with children, more or less at that time 5 or 6 O'clock? One of the statements claim that. Seems very elastic the time for that group or they are flying like the Superman.
    I always had the feeling that the group went to the Cafe Paraiso to get an alibi in case the investigation got too close to the truth. They know there was camaras there. Their clothes are not compatible with beach clothes or tennis clothes. No bags carrying stuff to/from the beach or to the tennis lessons. Will be interesting to know if all of them show up later wearing the same clothes they are wearing in cafe paraiso, or if they change them. I believe people working in the OC, the GNR, some guests and people living in PDL who saw that people on May 3 when the alarm was raised were able to remember and compare the clothes with what is recorded in cafe paraiso. For some reason, the Tapas don't want to get compromised with clothes they were wearing. Nobody forget which clothes was wearing in a shocked day and their statements were made shortly after everything happen.

    Just an apart, but is unbelievable what I was watching in the News: Bibi playing another game with portuguese justice. Saying that he lies and insinuating that the boys were tortured by PJ to incriminate the arguidos. THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN WHEN CONVICTED PEOPLE STAYS FREE AND ABLE TO WORK BEHIND SCENES. The stupid Bibi end up manipulated by expensive lawyers and the money machine of the other arguidos. Probably they promise him few years in prison ( a reduction on his conviction) if he assumes the crime and clear the others. Now I can understand why he sack his lawyer. Was all prepared by other players and those players quickly show up asking the investigation to be reopened. If portuguese justice let that corruption go on, then the all democracy fails. The arguidos are prepared to discredit PJ with torture again. What a joke you become Mr. Socrates with the way you "transform" the justice in Portugal. I don't believe a single word coming now from Bibi mouth. He tells all when he made such observation: " os rapazes eram todos maluquinhos como o Francisco". And the judges were all stupid yah???

  3. Having read and reread the statements, the LP's did a pretty dismal job of examining and cross examining the McCanns and their tapas pals. They all 'walked it' if you ask me!

    And there must be a good reason, suspected by many, but probably known only to the McCanns, the Paynes, and possibly the rest of their swingers club, why none of them questioned or protested the Gaspar statements.

  4. I thought he saw them around 6.30 -7pm and Gerry was not there. Also all 3 of the children were ready for bed??Like angels he said...well that blows that evidence out of the window..how can the police let such descrepancies lie, why arent they hauling these people in until the truth appears. I really do not understand how they are all walking around as if nothing has happened.

  5. Thank you for posting this, Joana. Re the statement that Payne did not search on 4th May, according to this article, he went out at 4 a.m. with Gerry to search.

    Keep up the good work!


  6. As always - thanks Joanna,

    May I ask you a personal opinion on whether you think the case will (at some stage) be re-opened? Your personal opinion if I may as I trust your judgement and knowledge.

    I am very dedicated to this case as my children and ex hubby live on the Algarve Albufiera to be precise and I love the Portuguese people and am sick and tired of hearing how incompetent the Portuguese Sardine munching people are and I am sick and tored of hearing it!

    I have planted a flower for Madeleine in my garden last summer and cant wait for it to bllom this Spring hopefully by that time we have some news on the impending court case against Sr Amaral or should I say King Amarel.

    Regards from Holland

  7. Whilst it might be a little strong for some people's tastes the community at ARRSE seem to hold a very dim view of the Mccanns.

    Mr B

  8. Time after time I am baffled by the things LP let the tapas bunch get away with. Their statements and interviews are a complete joke.
    Either they are completely, absolutely and utterly stupid or something else is going on.

  9. Has anyone ever heard, read or checked whether the Man called Stuart who was with the Mcanns,paynes and the Gaspers in Mojorca is the same Stuart as Gerrys friend STU in the Leiceister police force?
    Gerry was/is so familiar with the chief of police Stuart that he was able to call him STU even though Gerry was/is a suspect in the case.

    Makes you wonder,why the Gaspers statements were witheld from the Portugeese police for over 5 months?


  10. @8, but why did the LP let the tapas friends get away with that shamble of interviews , thats the big question that needs an answer.
    makes one wonder if any one could trust LP,i know i couldnt.

  11. Poster 8,I couldn,t agree more,you would think they,LP, were a bunch of amateurs ,its really is so frustrating,surely someone there checked these statements and could see how these "witnesses" just made a mockery of the whole tragic situation,and still let them get away with ,NOT ANSWERING vital questions time and time again!!!!!!WHY????? because I,m sure there were, and still are ,many many police"persons" who did question the "abduction story" right from day one, and even more so when Kate refused to answer questions,which we all know were vital ,but obviously "madam" didn,t,or should I say ,because she knew how important they were ,she choose not to .As for refusing to do a reconstruction,its just mind blowing !!I just hope they "pay" for their sins one day ,very very soon.

  12. Interesting. Mike Marshal sends a letter to Ricardo Paiva, sending the Gaspars's statements, with the words "as requested".
    That could mean that the PJ knew about their existences and that they asked the Leicestershire police to send them.
    Somebody told Portimao about those informations.

    Or perhaps Mike Marshal got fed up of the McCanns' lies and wrote"as requested" not to get himself in trouble.
    Whatever the reason was, Mike Marshal seems to be a honest man.

  13. "He states that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 5 pm on the 3rd of May, 2007, in the McCanns’ apartment. Kate and Gerry were equally present then. He did not state the reason why he was in the apartment at that time, or what they were doing. He does not state for how long he stayed there, either."

    Following the thoughts of poster #2, Payne was in 5A at around 5? And both Gerry and Kate were there? Wasn't he also there at around 6.30, at Gerry's request(he was at the tennis courts, or was he?)to see if Kate needed assistance with the kids? Supposedly, Kate was to bring the kids to the playground, but the kids were too tired, so she turned away Payne's help. This visit either lasted for seconds(said Kate) or up to 30 minutes (Payne), Gerry says Payne returned to the tennis ground at 7.
    How could/can they get away with such blatantly confliting statements???

    On the Gaspar's statements, I was under the impression that they came to Portugal and to the PJ's hands completely by chance, mixed amongst a pile of irrelevant documentation from the Leicester police! Yet, it seems this was not the case...from the above we can see that those statements were "requested"! I went to check what is in Mr. Amaral's book about this and he doesn't mention the pile of documents, or finding the statements by chance "hidding" in there. He says that, at some point, there were "rumors" amongst the investigation team of some odd and suspicious behavior from some members of the group in a previous holiday, probably in Greece. Here's a bit from chapter9:

    "This witness statement from the couple, S.G. and K.G., is taken by the English police on May 16th, thirteen days after Madeleine’s disappearance. That information, very important for the progress of the investigation, was never sent to the Portuguese police. When the Portuguese investigators learn about similar events that allegedly took place during a holiday in Greece - without, however, obtaining reliable witness statements -, they tell the English police, who, even at this point, refrain from revealing what they know on the subject."

    From DC Marshall's reply we can see that the statements were officially requested and were also officially and clearly sent, not hidden in paperwork!
    I get more and more confused each day!
    "Confusion is best", eh, Gerry...?

  14. Which husband?
    Her replies are vague....
    The whole thing is a disastrous mess and they,the LP cops or Portuguese authorities do NOTHING.
    What has changed since 2007? Not a single thing (a part for the terrible aggravation they provocked in GA"s life)
    The saga continues while they are writing a loo roll sold for some billions pounds.
    P A T H E T I C

    @KK 6
    "I have planted a flower for Madeleine in my garden"
    This is such a very nice thing to do! Lets hope it will blossom like the justice this little girl deserves
    RIP Madeleine

  15. Carol Tranmer was grilled for hours by LP, they even tried to make out she was not there in May by confusing the month. They tried to put words in her mouth, get her to change her statement about the person she saw was wearing glasses when she didn't say that. They kept up the questioning for hours as though trying to wear her down.

    All she saw was a glimpse of a man she didn't know shutting a gate.

    Yet JT, who reported seeing someone carrying a child, did not get the same attention and neither did David Payne who was 'supposed' to have been the last independent witness to see Madeleine alive.

    As for allowing the witnesses see each other's statements to refresh their memories.....well...what does one say about that? Is it even legally acceptable?

    All I can say is if I am ever brought in for questioning over some event then I hope it's by the LP!

  16. QUOTE He did not state the reason why he was in the apartment at that time, or what they were doing. He does not state for how long he stayed there, either. UNQUOTE

    The above statement gives the game away surely - why didn`t Mike Marshall then ask "Why were you in the apartment" and "How long were you there". This questioning is so lame - if this is the way the police interview witnesses or suspects then its a wonder that every criminal doesn`t get away with murder. He is either very incompetent or he was purposely allowing the interviewees to be vague.

  17. A Dubliner at 9 - agree with you about `Stu` - I could never understand how GM and he were on such friendly terms. Why did `Stu` let GM get away with such informal addressing of each other during such a serious investigation when GM was a suspect. Unless GM was superior to him in some way, perhaps?

  18. "There was another couple, whose names were Tara and Stuart, but whose surname I cannot remember who were also on holiday with us."


  19. All very unproffesional, on behalf of LP. This should be investigated and the reasons for not pursueing these errors in the statements made clear why not. I always thought the british police were some of the best in the world. As for the chief of police allowing a suspect to call him Stu, is totally out of order, must be a Masons connection. I can hardly believe the masons would cover up evidence over a missing child,but gerry is such a manipulator.

  20. 'Today, Wednesday, 16th of May of 2007, at 17:40, I gave DC Brewer an A4 page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to refer to these images as (Ref KZG/1) (element of proof) that may (page seven) be presented as means of proof, if necessary. These photographs were taken during the holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white T-shirt and the woman in the photograph corresponds to his wife Fiona. The man who is holding the glass of wine in the photograph is Stuart. These photographs were taken while we were in Majorca."


  21. I have a question which is off topic but I'll take my chances. What ever happened to one of the first responding officers who was much later charged with accepting money unlawfully shortly after Madeleine was reported "missing"? I try to stay up-to-date but I seem to have missed the follow-up to this charge which at the time I found to be rather interesting considering the time-frame.

  22. To Mike Marshall's defence, it appears he was merely going through questionnaires (who drew these up? PJ?) completed by Fiona and David Payne. It's not that he was interviewing the Paynes and allowed the inconsistencies to stand without further questioning. Perhaps, it was then up to the PJ to ask for clarification on the inconsistencies which they did via the rogatory process?

    As for "Stu" who went on holiday with the McCanns, it was Stuart Gold. He went with his wife Tara and at least one child whose name escapes me who was around the same age as Maddie.

  23. It's ShuBob here. I posted the comment in defence of DC Mike Marshall but forgot to sign my name before posting. Thanks.

  24. It seems that the German police arrested a person connected to the disappearece of Mirco, 11,who disappeared last September.
    The German police will give a statemnt to the media, tomorrow or Friday.
    Mirco's story disappeared completely, but it was thought that the police were continuing the investigations, although they refused to comment it.
    After more than four months, it is possible that the case will be solved.

  25. From the above letter: "I have carefully read the written questionnaire that was handed over by David Payne"

    From mccannfiles:

    "Intriguingly, the letter from LP mentions the completion of a written questionnaire - by David and Fiona Payne - but it is unclear whether that questionairre was supllied by the PJ or whether it was instigated by LP themselves. There appears to be no copy of the questionnaire anywhere in the PJ files."


  26. Do I read it right that the questionnaire (I assume that means the answers to the questionnaire) handed over by David Payne was not made available to the PJ?

  27. E volta a vergonha da Casa Pia com o Bibi a ser entrevistado por um freelancer de idoneidade duvidosa a quem o PGR parece dar mais credito do que a Felicia Cabrita que passou um mau bocado por ter denunciado os abusos a que foram sujeitos os miudos casapianos.
    A justica portuguesa nao podia ter descido mais baixo. Esta entrevista e para mim a ponta do iceberg que se for bem explorada por um juiz com neuronios e imparcialidade ha-de expor a teia de corrupcao que gere os meandros onde se movem os advogados de alguns arguidos e as benesses de que beneficiam( passo a redundancia) por parte de alguns politicos. Toda a conversa do Bibi cheira tanto a Carlos Cruz e Marinho pinto que se torna quase nauseabunda.
    Nao posso deixar de fazer a ligacao do triangulo Madeleine, Casa Pia e Leonor Cipriano. Outra vez alguns dos mesmos actores encenando a mesma peca para desacreditarem a justica e a PJ. So o desespero de quem sabe que nao esta inocente pode estar ao comando desta operacao. O Bibi que diz ter mentido, levou 6 anos, provavelmente alguns Euros e umas quantas promessas de reducao na pena, a denunciar a mentira. E que argumentos sr. PGR?... Os miudos que foram "batidos pela PJ" para acusarem os que se julgam intocaveis, estao mentalmente desequilibrados, especialmente o Francisco. Tao interessante... nao fosse o Francisco a peca chave na acusacao a Carlos Cruz, nao tivesse o jornalista freelancer escrito um livro a meias com a ex do Carlos Cruz e nao se tivesse o Bibi reunido com Marinho Pinto para... despedir o advogado e sabe-se la que mais. Mais do mesmo. Como interessa tanto a estes senhores desacreditar a PJ e os tribunais?
    E que disse o PGR, para quem falsos avistamentos e falsas testemunhas no caso Madeleine nao servem para o reabrir, a proposito da entrevista de Bibi? Vai chamar o procurador Joao Aibeo. Quer dizer que esta entrevista lhe merece credito e que os juizes, psicologos e etc, estavam todos "taradinhos", iguais aos miudos na versao Bibi. Decididamente milhoes de portugueses nao se reveem nesta democracia e e uma injustica faze-los pagar julgamentos que terminam com os acusados fora das prisoes, livres para recorrerem e manipularem o elo mais fraco. E so no campo da manipulacao que cabe para mim a entrevista do Bibi.
    Ja todos suspeitavamos que o caso podia acabar assim: criminosos transformados em herois inocentes e as vitimas em depravados deficientes.
    O Presidente da Republica recentemente eleito, que e avo e que tao bem sabe usar a imagem da "familia ideal" espero que olhe para as criancas da Casa Pia e para Madeleine e que veja o que parece mais que evidente para milhoes de portugueses -A MANIPULACAO DA JUSTICA PARA DEIXAR IMPUNES CRIMINOSOS E INJUSTICADAS AS VITIMAS.
    Hoje mais uma vez, envergonho-me de ser Portuguesa.

  28. Anyone know has the Murat V Tanner taken place yet or is it ever going to take place or has Murat dropped proceedings. Going by what's happening here UK justice is swift and that's saying a lot. No wonder the Maccann's think they rule Portugal and by God they are allowed to.

  29. I agree with ShuBob, DC Marshall only read a questionnaire, he did not interview the Paynes directly. I suppose the questionnaire followed the rogatory interviews, and was possibly made by the PJ as an attempt to clarify some points of the said rog. interviews. Unfortunately, to no avail, because the Paynes were as vague as ever, no clarification came from those questionnaires, and the LP once again let them get away with it!

    And, about the rogatory interviews, they are so pathetic that they don't even seem real to me! What serious police force would conduct such farses??? What do we know of the source of those transcripts? How did them get in the public domain? They are not in the released portuguese files, are they (the DVD)? Did the Leicester Constabulary release them? I see in McCannFiles they came via Duarte Levy...can we trust the veracity of those transcripts...?
    As I've said, they are so unbelievably messy, such a sloppy police job, they do not ring true! Just my opinion...

  30. The confusion over the time is perfectly simpe, it was sorted an age ago.
    It's a simple mix-up between 7 pm and 1700 hrs, and what's more it's obvious from the conext of everyone's else's statements.

  31. Anon #31, you're brave for trying... but... did you "sort" that with the PJ translators? Or with Leicestershire police? Or maybe with David Payne himself? You're trying to convince us that Payne went to the McCanns appartment at 7 pm, and Kate and Gerry were there? SO what about his vision of Kate alone with three white angels?

  32. 21 @ "Himself"

    Could you elaborate on that ?

    To others on here who can't believe it - believe it. There is never going to be a solution - they are holding all the "get out of jail cards"!


  33. 'It is reported that Mr Payne was playing in a tennis competition, which included Gerry, on the early evening of May 3rd. It is alleged that when he had been eliminated from the competition, Gerry asked him to pop into their apartment and check on Kate. Reports state that Mr Payne saw Madeleine being put to bed, by Kate, at 6.30pm. If true, this would make David Payne the last 'independent' witness to see Madeleine before her disappearance.'


    Was Payne also in the apartment at 5 pm, the last time he saw Madeleine alive and Kate and Gerry were equally present.


  34. Mirco's body is found in Germany, some kilometres from where his bicycle was found.
    It seems a German man went to Holland to sell his VW Passat and as people found his behaviour suspect, they contacted the police.
    His station car corresponded to the description of the car that was seen on that night, also a dark colour.
    It seems that the police followed him for a short time and arrested him last Wednesday. He confessed his crime and brought the police to Mirco's grave.
    Tomorrow the police will officially talk to the media.

  35. The mccanns appear to manipulate most of what is published through libel cases and as the Gaspars are their friends IMO statements are pure fabrication with the sole purpose of strengthening Gerry’s paedophile theory. Katherine does not mention what Gerry said after Payne’s comment but repeats the accusation again and still does not mention what Gerry said. The mccanns have been able to manipulate this case because they were white, middle class doctors with a shed load of money. The investigation seems to be very lax at the early stages when the Tapas were asked questions to be able state ‘refer to my original statement ‘is an admission that the original statement was lies and they cannot remember what they said. They also gave the money they won from the libel court case to Madeleine fund because they knew once the full story came out their lies would be proven and they would have to repay it.
    When mccanns were given the keys to the church I believe they used that area to make contact and set up much of the confusion away from prying eyes. They knew that there would be many sightings of Madeleine because human nature is such that every little blonde 3 year old girl was a potential Madeleine, so of course they pushed these stories in the media same as the Hewett story another red herring but it all caused speculation and confusion and pushed the finger of guilt away from the mccanns.
    They should never have been allowed to return to the UK the PJ was on the verge of arresting them but because of the media frenzy and lack of official information they effectively escaped justice even though both police forces suspected their involvement, cadaver was only on items handled by Kate. They attempted to blame Murat, Payne is now classed as a possible paedophile and of course another suspect. I would be very wary of all statements because there appear to be very few I also have my doubts about Yvonne Martin’s statement why have other people not raised their concerns about Payne why is he allowed to continue as a doctor and what caring mother would socialise with a man she suspected of watching child pornography on the internet (Gaspars words again) she never said a word, but was quick enough to make a police statement about him which I believe she was prompted to do by Gerry. The wallet incident was another red herring Gerry never lost his wallet but it gave him more time to do whatever he needed, but again we read it in the media because that is what he wanted.
    IMO they were swingers Gerry was a loud mouth other diners called him ‘motor mouth’ Kate was fed up with his womanising, flirting with the Game Show host she was sleeping in the other room and lost her patience with Maddie hence the accident and the pair of them decided to cover it up for fear of losing the twins and their jobs and pretended there had been an abduction then they started to introduce the paedophile angle into it.

  36. Well surprise, surprise. The PACT of silence surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has just doubled as I hear rumours that Jim Gamble has now team up Lady Catherine Meyer & joined the board of PACT :c

  37. 31

    There is no confusion, Payne is an incoherent liar, simple.

    In his original statement dated 4 May 2007 he says nothing at all about being in the McCanns apt during the early evening. At no stage is there ever any reference to him being in that apt at 7pm.

    In the questionnaire referred above he tells UK police officers in October 2007 he saw Maddie with both Kate and Gerry in their apt at 5 pm and then in his rogatory in April 2008 he gets even better with his embroidery, he now tells us he was in the McCann apartment and saw Kate and the children, not Gerry, he was playing tennis. He cannot recall what any of them were wearing, but the children look like pure white little angels. All three of them he insists, Maddie was definitely there. Her bed was not slept in that night though was it!

    When you read his rogatory you can see the officer is most insistent to intimately question him about what he was doing from about 3 pm that afternoon. Did anyone actually see him "windsurfing alone". Apparently not. He says he had to rush back from the restaurant at 6.15 to go play tennis but then tell us he "peeled off" from the other (Mat and Russell) two because he had to go talk to Gerry, then he even got persuaded to go and check on Kate.

    He repeatedly contradicts himself during this sequence in the rogatory, at one point stating he actually played a bit of tennis with Gerry but then later saying he had not got his kit at that point and actually told Kate Gerry has finished, well if he had why send Payne. The officer incredulously asks him at one point, "surely you did not intend to play tennis"? At another the officer gets him to clearly explain what Gerry was apparently doing when he turned up to have a chat with him, Payne falls for it, oh he was having a really good game, then at what point did you manage to have a chat with him, did he shout to you as he was playing? AT another point the officer asks him whether he used his own kit or Mark Warners, Mark Warners replies dumbo Payne (he seems to love that phrase). The officer must have been scratching his head wondering what kit it was he needed to go back to his room to fetch..You see if he had just come off the beach for windsurfing and apparently only went into his own room for a minute or two, what did he do? Would he not have already been in shorts and could have just picked up a raquet and genuinely started playing tennis with Gerry, oh but he was already having a great game.

    It seems to me, No 31, and sorry if this troubles you, but by the time it got to those rogatory interviews Payne and Gerry had decided it was most important that Payne could place Maddie being alive and well in the apartment as late as 6.30 that night. It also seems to me that thanks to her lovely daddy and his mate, she was long gone by that stage and as the above email confirms, the police would really love to know what Payne was really up to earlier that afternoon, when he had apparently left Fiona and her mummy babysitting his own two little ones. Funny even he did not think they needed to do that at night! Just when he needs it I guess so the story reads right. But his simply does not!

    Do not let me put you off posting though, comments like your own trying to suggest we are "confused" about Payne really fascinate me, so keep them coming!

  38. #36 wrote:
    "Katherine does not mention what Gerry said after Payne’s comment but repeats the accusation again and still does not mention what Gerry said."

    From K.Gaspar's statement:
    "I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also
    at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) as if saying "did anyone else hear this, or was it just me". There was a nervous silence registered in all the conversations and afterwards, everyone began talking again."

    Gerry's silence and lack of reaction(and Kate's too, by the way) to Payne's gestures speaks volumes! If the Gaspars made the statements to help the McCanns push their paedo theory, if those statements were Gerry's idea, the plan was flawed, because, by the manner Katherine described what happened, Gerry comes out in a very bad light! Gerry ACCEPTED Payne's remarks! If Gerry had reacted badly, as one would expect, I suppose Katherine would have mentioned it in her statement, but she did not, hence, one can infer that Gerry did or said nothing. Also, none of the friends sitting around that table reacted to the innapropriate behavoir, Katherine said she looked at the others to see if they too were disturbed by the scene and that there was a brief awkward moment of silence and then they resumed talking as if nothing happened. It seems none of them was surprised by what happened, it seemed like a natural occurrence to them, something they had witnessed before and were used too (and in compliance with),only Katherine was shocked. Not one single person, man OR WOMAN, all of them MOTHERS and fathers of very young children, reacted with disgust or anger, not one! Most surprisingly, not even Gerry and Kate, considering Payne supposedly
    talked about Madeleine! If anyone, friend or not, would ever do what Payne did in front of me or my husband about my child, I assure you that that person would be in need of a new set of teeth and facial reconstruction! The mere thought of having to witness such behavior from a "friend" makes my blood boil, I feel the anger taking over me as I type these words, that's why I cannot understand how Kate and Gerry could have sat there so calm!
    Another thing I cannot understand is the subsequent behavoir of Katherine Gaspar. After having witnessed that scene, which left her disturbed and suspicious of Paynes' possible paedophile tendency she still allows him and the rest of the men to bathe her daughter!
    She says:

    "During our holidays I was more attentive at bath time after hearing Dave saying that.

    During our vacation in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children's baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to be careful and to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, to my daughter E*****. I was very clear about this, as having heard him saying that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E***** alone."

    She was more "attentive"!!! She did not trust Payne to bather her daughter alone!!!
    EXCUSE ME?! More attentive? If I were in her position, I would make absolutely sure Payne would not get anywhere nearer my child, let alone bathe her! And for sure, my holiday would have finished right there, I would not spend another day under the same roof as those people!
    This is what bothers me about the Gaspar's statements and makes me somewhat suspicious of their purpose.

  39. "36:
    "When mccanns were given the keys to the church I believe they used that area to make contact and set up much of the confusion away from prying eyes."

    ...and ears too!
    They were aware that their apartments could have been "bugged" by the police, they needed a safe place to talk freely and make plans. The church was ideal, the police cannot easily make a search or place cameras and microphones in a church, I think it would require special permission from the highest hierarchies in the Catholic Church, not just from a judge.

  40. Tommy Sheriden, has just been jailed for perjury, because of a libel case he won a few years ago against The News of The World, from which he recieved a big payout from the newspaper. They are now after him for the money to be paid back.
    So we can see why the Maccanns have to keep up the pretence of Madelaine and the abduction lies. The charges against them would be endless. Wasting Police time both in Portugal, and the UK, perverting the cause of justice, lies, deformation, Fraud slander, it would go on and on.
    Will they ever be exposed only God Knows. Only Portugal can solve this case only Portugal can get justice for this child she went to your country and died there, wake up for Gods sake and remember an innocent child who cries out to you. Portugal you are a nation in shame.

  41. The man who killed Mirco is 45, has gotten three children, and lived in a village not far away from Mirco's village.
    On that day, he got in trouble with the company where he worked(fired?), he became very angry, he left and drove around till he saw
    Mirco on his bicycle, at 10pm.
    He got out of his car,obliged Mirco to through away his bicycle, obliged him to get in his car, drove it to a forest where he sexually abused and killed him.
    He buried Mirco 6 km from the place where he picked him up.
    Mirco was 10 years old.
    The killer was arrested very early in the morning,when he was still sleeping.
    He confessed everything.
    I really hope the judge will not say he had an unhappy childhood and forgive his sin.

  42. One normally wears a wetsuit to windsurf. What did Payne do with it, did he hire it? If so when did he return it? If it was his, where did he hang it to dry and when did he shower and change, not in his apartment in two minutes it seems. Why didn't he mention all this as it's relevant to the timings? Was he in the apartment 5A for 30 seconds or thirty minutes? and if Kate was wearing only a towel when he arrived, why did she let him in? Did she leave him alone with the children while she got dressed? What was he doing during this time?

  43. Clarence said in interview recently, to the effect that some commentators online criticise the McCanns for neglect but that's not true, he said, and they have no power and don't know anything. So what is this important something, Clarence, that people don't know? Is it what Kate knows because she was there? After all the police files et al are online so what is it that you know that the public don't? But then, Clarence always puts his foot in it, doesn't he.

  44. Hi 36 ,i hope you dont mind but i dont agree with you about the Gaspars statements being fabrication , i believe the total opposite , i beleive what they witnessed that evening when David Payne sucked his finger and rubbed his nipple in a provocative manner ,was sexual gestures directed at a child.

    They the Gaspars on another occasion witnessed David Payne make similar gestures, but this time it was allegedly directed at his own child.

    Did Gerry comment on David Paynes provocative gestures,this i dont know, but what we do know ,is that there was a very uncomfortable silence ,this silence should tells us a lot .

    Also i would be very careful about doubting a social worker with 30 years experience in child care Yvonne Warren Martin, her main aim in writing that letter was for Leicester police to check all paedophile/child abuse registers for anything relating to Payne, why did she ask Leicester police to do such a thing , she must have had a bloody good reason ,also there are many doctors working in the NHS with child abuse offences.

    From: DC443 J.N. HUGHES
    To: SIO, Operation Task
    Department: Main Crime Unit
    Date: 16th May 2008
    Subject: Background Information- Gerald McCANN

    A search of the local section of the child abuse shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system. A consultation with the DC Soand from the department in question confirms that this is just a file reference, but as a complement to Operation Task system for the purpose of reference.

    You can believe it or not, but the SIO, Operation Task, Main Crime Unit is where all the UK's paedophile data files from Operation Ore are kept.

  45. The man who killed Mirco told the police that he feels releaved that he has been caught.
    His wife and his 3 children left the village to an unknown place.

  46. From Wednesday to Thursday, Kate slept in the children's bedroom and that is not a crime at all.It can happen in every marriage for many different reasons.
    It does not mean anything at all.
    But it seems that as soon she stood up early on that Thursday, she phoned somebody at 7.00 am.
    She obviously needed to talk to someone. Somebody in the UK, who was still taking breakfast or about to leave home to go working?
    Or somebody of the Tapas, who was definitely already up, because of his/her little children?
    Did she have a bad night for some reason,or should I say, did she have AGAIN a bad night, did she analyse her life during those dark hours, a compulsive crying child since its birth,little possibility to get better, crying and sleeping badly for four years and was she fed up of Gerry?
    Did she sleep near her children not to let Madeleine cry again because their lady neighbour had complained to the Ocean Club?
    And she told a different story to the police,she was "angry with Gerry", better than to tell she was controlling Maddie,who was used to wake up at night or to sleep badly and even though they left her alone every night, including that Thursday.
    Whom did she call that early morning of the 3rd?
    7.00 am is very early in the morning for a social call.
    It must have been something else, after bad nights, bad days and, who knows, bad Gerry.
    And we know that Madeleine did not cry in the night of Wednesday.
    Something worked and she slept well.

  47. Thank you to the poster(s) who update this blog on the Mirco story. Such tragedy but hopefully the poor boy can now rest in peace with his family having some kind of closure.


  48. @ 47: I firmly believe she was dead by the Wednesday night.

    I do NOT or should I say CANNOT fathom how these vile creatures would have had the time to " fake an abduction" and stage the scene in a hurry, I believe it was well planned! The apartment was spick and span by the time the alram went. Cleaning done on Wednesday, No DNA of Madeleine found in the apartment!


  49. I didn't not know about this call that early morning.
    The person who got this call could have the key of this story.
    Or at least know what happened that day.
    It could not be the hospital because they knew they were on holydays.
    Her parents were healthy enough to travel to Portugal, which they did, after the disappearence.
    She could have called Payne.
    If this crime was planned, that could have been the D-Call and the D-Day.
    But I still feel horror when I think of planning.
    I rather choose for an accident.


    Dear Anon 1

    Dr. Amaral will not publish his new revised and extended version until he is definitely clear of the injunction charges brought upon him. He is waiting for the final trial which he hopes will be a mere formality.

    Also he needs to read the McCanns' version of events first in order to de-construct their PR effort with the facts of the investigation and, of course, his own in loco observations... but for that he has to wait until the McCanns' book is published and their rogue injunction shelved for good.

    Also it may depend on whether a publisher is available in the English-speaking world which for legal reasons (prosecution) is forced to feel "sympathetic" towards the McCanns's version of events ...it is unlikely the McCanns' will prosecute themselves besides English-speaking readers may feel more inclined to believe their version of events because they are British than Dr. Amaral's because he is not. It really boils down to fear and ethnical prejudice.

    Nonetheless, I understand Dr. Amaral already has a multi-million dollar offer from a well known American publisher but this could be a rumour. There are certainly offers from France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland and even Japan!


  51. 49, if she died on Wednesday night, I wonder where did they hid her body from the twins.
    The whole Thursday.
    It is strange that Payne went to the tennis court,at 6.30pm, asking for Kate.He knew she was in the apartment, didn't he?
    On purpose,for an alibi.At the restaurant and innocently going to Gerry, at the tennis court.Maddie could have died on Wednesday afternoon, after lunch.
    That's why Gerry published that photo at the swimming pool, with a much younger Madeleine on it and without one of the twins.
    Obviouwly manipulated photo with the purpose to cover up something.
    That photo was not necessary, if Kate signed the nursery document at the end of the day.A signature is more valuable than a photo that can be manipulated.
    Are there evidences that Maddie went on that boat trip in the morning?
    Another question is why the McCanns did not take the afternoon tea with the rest of the group.
    And Kate jogged, to increase her serotonine, I guess.
    Another question is what Gerry and Kate did the whole Wednesday afternoon.She is too weak to jogg for hours and hours and the children were at the nurseries.
    Did the ladies of the nursery collaborate with the McCanns?

  52. I also find the Gaspars statements odd in as much as Katherine Gaspar was very taken aback and disgusted by Paynes comments but she never said anything and she still allowed Payne to come within close proximity to her daughter at bathtimes.

    Which makes me suspicious of her intentions.

    Hypothetically one could argue that had Katherine threatened to report her concerns Madeleine may still be alive today.

  53. Well done Joana Morais, Astro et al brilliant blog Justice for Maddie and Sr Amarel.

  54. Lightfoot, at 51, please God you are right,and thank you for answering me.

    Anon 1

  55. On Gerry's statement of May the 4th, he said Maddie asked him why he did not come to her bedroom when the twins were crying. This question was made on May the 3rd, at breakfast. Gerry said he had heard nothing.
    This means this crying happend in the middle of the night, beginning of May the 3rd, otherwise Gerry would have said he was at the Tapas, that's why he didn't hear it.
    Wasn't Kate then sleeping in the children's bedroom and is she deaf?

  56. I believe some guests of the OC and the workers of the Tapas are part of the gang involved in the cover-up. Some, pressured by Gerry and the idea he pass to them, of being well related with government. And the workers pressured by the OC manager, who don't want the resort connected with some type of holidays ( the swing for example). All statements made to the police seems fabricated, including the Nannies that left Portugal in a hurry.
    I don't believe the Tapas 9 ever wented to the Tapas for a dinner that night. They were busy trying to set a consistent story to tell to the police. But off-course, when you have a lie to be delivered by so many characters, the risk of having unconsistencies is very high. A truthful story can be told in many ways by many people without having doubious statements. A lie, falls on the first steps. That's why no any of that fake witnesses ever got courage to show up again in the media and help the Mccanns with their false search of Madeleine. A real witness will stand beside the parents trying to help and raise attention to the victim, a little child who still not having voice, or someboby related with her, to care about her rights.

  57. Annon @ 52 Madeleines body could have been hidden in the wardrobe for a while Eddie and Keela detected cadaver in the wardrobe.
    they could not go to Paradiso with their friends because they had to find a hiding place for madeleines body. IMO madeleine died before 3rd.

  58. Hi 53, i get the impression you are somehow laying some blame for Madeleines disappearance at the Gaspars door, very very harsh if you ask me , they are not responsible in any way , the only two people who should take that responsibility are Madeleines parents.
    She was let down by them and them only.

    Nobody is going to change my mind on what the Gaspars witnessed not on one occasion but two or maybe even three occasions.

    What i believe they witnessed were sexual gestures directed at children.

  59. 53 and 59 - what I find unusual about the Gaspars is why didn`t Katherine have a quiet word with Kate about what she saw - weren`t the Gaspars supposed to be friends with K&G more so than the Paynes?
    If it had been me that witnessed something like that, I probably would not have reacted at the time (being so shocked) and would need to gather my thoughts and digest what I saw. I would need to find out if Kate was aware of Payne`s procivities and if she would be happy to leave her children alone with him.


    53 Jimuck

    Achtung! Whereas the gestures are suspect, in themselves they prove nothing.

    As a doctor, Payne could easily have explained their conversation as a light hearted discussion on children sexuality (Freudian type) or even perhaps as an observation of childrens' attachment to breast feeding.

    The gestures need not have had a sexual connotation or at least the defence could argue it that way...

    You would need more circumstantial evidence to substantiate what has become known as "Textusa Theory". OK we have the social worker confrontation, etc. but...any hard data?

    What I found really suspect were the answers Payne gave (or avoided giving) to the Leicestershire police on behalf of the PJ. It sounds to me like contempt of justice from both quarters.

    This is another reason why I believe the McCanns' (and the Tapas ensemble) should have been charged and brought to trial so that at least the circunstances of the child "dematerialization" and the obvious lies could have been clarified - even if in the end they were found innocent of the child's disappearance or death for lack of conclusive evidence! Eddie's testimony must, unfortunately, remain as the "supernova fart theory".

    The couple are certainly guilty of abandoning their children to their fate as Kate himself admits in her historial statement: "WE LET HER DOWN!".

    One year in prison would have done them some good.

    All in all they should have shown some gratitude to the Portuguese authorities that let them get away with very dodgy statements, contradictions and an array of circumstantial evidence... thus allowing the McCanns' to set up this massive PR celebrity, show biz operation , systematically trying to dry clean the event and their image and allay their guilt onto others (e.g. Amaral).


  61. Anon at 60 - I agree with you under the circumstances why did'nt Katherine have a quiet word with Kate if she was so shocked instead of going out with them again and the same thing happening a second time and still she said nothing. I would be like poster at 39 and find it all totally unacceptable not just say to my husband 'be more attentive...' and still stay on holiday with those types, I'd have been on the first plane out with my precious children not hang around for something else to happen.
    Well done Joana et al brilliant blog.

  62. Hi 61, i believe the social worker Yvonne Warren Martins main aim in writing that letter to Leicester police, was for them to check child paedophile/child abuse registers for anything relating to David Payne, i believe the evidence is there on David Payne and Yvonne Warren Martin know this,
    and those gestures where he put a finger in and out of his mouth while he rubbed his nipple in a circular motion all in a provocative manner, imo were sexual gestures directed at a child and up to this day i have not being proved wrong.

    Hi 62,you said regarding the Gaspar statement "I agree with you under the circumstances why did'nt Katherine have a quiet word with Kate if she was so shocked" well the Gaspars must have their reasons not to confront Kate MaCann.

    What concerns me, is why after David Payne made those gestures there was a very uncomfortable silence amongst all there including Kate MaCann, this uncomfortable silence confirms to me that all there that night apart from the Gaspars are all involved in the same practices.

    Sofia Leal the beautiful wife of Goncal Amaral in a recent article directed a quote at the MaCanns it went like this " we would not invite paedophile(S) into our circle of friends " remember Sofia Leal is the wife of Goncal Amaral the co-ordinator of the Madeleine investigation, the co-ordinator knows more than anyone what evidence is there.

  63. Hi 61, you wanted a bit of hard data.

    From: DC443 J.N. HUGHES
    To: SIO, Operation Task
    Department: Main Crime Unit
    Date: 16th May 2008
    Subject: Background Information- Gerald McCANN

    A search of the local section of the "CHILD ABUSE" shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system. A consultation with the DC Soand from the department in question confirms that this is just a file reference, but as a complement to Operation Task system for the purpose of reference.

    There is also a "CHILD ABUSE" file on Kate MaCann.

    While we are talking about child abuse, more hard data coming up.

    Why were the MaCanns in a Family Court a year before 06 Madeleine went missing.

    Court 20 Before MRS JUSTICE HOGG
    Monday, 7 July, 2008
    At 10:30 AM
    FD07P01121 McCann
    Applications/Summonses in Court as in Chambers

    Take a look at question 41 of the 48 Kate MaCann was asked.

  64. Is anybody really listening to me or is everybody sticking their heads in the sand.

    The SIO, Operation Task, Main Crime Unit is where all the UK's paedophile data files from Operation Ore are kept.

    You are on your own now , work it out for yourselfs.

  65. Jimuck, thank you. You just opened my eyes. I am just speechless and upset. Poor little Madeleine!

  66. jimuck - " Why were the MaCanns in a Family Court a year before 06 Madeleine went missing "

    Can you give me a reference for this 2006 case please? I can only find the 2008 court details.

  67. Hi Louisee, here you go , this has been provided by a good friend of mine.

    Court 20
    Monday, 7 July, 2008
    At 10:30 AM
    FD07P01121 McCann
    Applications/Summonses in Court as in Chambers

    There was a case in the Family Division of the Courts hence the last number it breaks down as the the following

    FD = Family Division
    06 is the year that the application was received - this cannot be backdated or forward run at all it is totally computer generated so at the turn of midnight in the year 2007 it will roll onto the next and new number assigned for 07 - it cannot be backdated because the computer won't allow it!

    The P im led to believe is to do with all child cases.

    01276 = the amount of applicatins of the number assigned (again cannot be jumped the computer automatically gives it the next number on the list).

    So, there was an application made in 2006 at the Family Court. When Madeleine went missing a further application was then made hence the 07 number and that the 06 application was consolidated with the 07 documentation but the 06 number has had to have been kept for cross refererencing of files and other relevant Court documentation/bundles!

  68. [From the the Find Madeleine website:- Missing Children: Kate's Message - "Child sexual exploitation and child pornography in particular, is sadly and shockingly extensive worldwide. It is a multi-billion dollar industry aided by the use of the Internet with the ‘thirst’ for younger victims growing."]

    Quite right Kate but whom exactly in our society is involved in this "$3-billion-a-year industry"? Well, thanks to the prosecutors of shocking & terrible crimes against young children we are beginning to find out aren't we?]

    [From the child porn prosecutors:-

    Child pornography prosecutors: Victims are getting younger, acts are more vile

    Child porn lovers live in your neighborhood

    They aren't just creepy loners.

    Crouched on a bench in the federal courthouse in Detroit almost every week, seemingly normal people -- doctors, coaches, authors, engineers, teens -- are charged with possessing and making child porn, a $3-billion-a-year industry that the federal government has labeled the new silent child abuse.

    Outed by their Internet activities, the accused stand before a judge, heads usually hung low, while their families sit in the back of the courtroom aghast at the accusations. And there typically is no criminal history to point to.

    "There's this notion that it's the creepy neighbor who lives in the basement of his parent's house and downloads this stuff," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin Mulcahy, chief of the general crimes unit for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Detroit.

    Far from it, he said.]


  69. jimuck - thank you for that. Makes sense now.

    Regarding "01276 = the amount of applications of the number assigned" - does your friend know what this means exactly? Does it mean the number has been applied 1276 times? And what would it have been applied to?

    Sorry to be a pain but I`m obviously a bit thick when it comes to official docs.


  70. Thanks for clearing the Stuart coincidence Shubob @23.

    Where did you hear,read, see this?,who is Stuart Gold? was he and his wife questioned by the pj in relation to the Gasper statements?


  71. NO BIZ LIKE SHOW BIZ: Episode 2

    Hi Jimuck! Greetings!

    If the evidence is/was there, how come we don't know the specifics of what is there and/or for that matter why din't the authorities follow up on those leads? This is either bureaucratic routine, some other person with a McCann surname or.. something truly fishy could have been going on...in the realms of so-called conspiracy theory...

    Even assuming the files had something truly pertinent written in them, you would still need to correlate that with the disappearance of the child. A mean task when you are dealing with the mighty McCann Corp., Carter-Ruck, Clarence Mitchell, and all other minor deities surrounding the real McCoys.

    Don't expect the McCanns to tell you "we did it!" they are simply not that type besides you must keep open the possibility that something else could have happen that does not directly involve them. Personally, I would love to think that...what bothers me is not Payne's gift for mimic...what bothers me was what Eddie "The Dog" was trying to say with all that barking.

    The bottom line is:

    The McCanns should have been put on trial on the grounds that they abandoned their children to their fate (the contradictions, the loud crying in previous nights would have helped to proved that). The same would apply to their friends. They should have been arrested and tried for perverting the course of justice - that way the PJ might...just might...have a more refined theory of what might have happened but... the Portuguese diplomacy opted for a politically correct move instead.

    As it stands the case has reached its ideal open-ended conclusion. Amaral is free (hopefully) to give his expert opinion on the case and the McCanns' free to carry on with their PR circus or search for Madeleine as they put it. Good night and good luck!


  72. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry

    The ‘anatomy’ of female child sexual abuse: who does what to young girls?

    1996, Vol. 30, No. 3 , Pages 319-325

    Objective: This paper aims to describe the characteristics of sexually abusive acts experienced by female children in order to identify those perpetrators who inflict intrusive and repeated child sexual abuse (CSA).

    Method: Data were collected from a random New Zealand sample of women aged 18 to 65 years who reported CSA, and a similar number of non-abused comparison women. Information on the perpetrator, the type of CSA, and perpetrator strategies were cross-tabulated.

    Results: The perpetrators were usually young men, well known to the victim or her family. Greater CSA intrusiveness was statistically associated with greater CSA frequency. Father/stepfather abusers were most likely to perpetrate intrusive and frequent CSA. However, family associates and non-paternal relatives were numerically more often reported as perpetrators than fathers/stepfathers. Stranger-perpetrators featured infrequently.

    Conclusion: We conclude that the most frequent and invasive CSA comes from someone well known to the child, particularly a family member or trusted friend. A focus by the courts or health professionals on either incest only (i.e. CSA between biological relatives) or ‘stranger danger’ will OVERLOOK the large categories of CSA perpetrated by secondary relative and family friend abuser


  73. Post no4 I read on themaddiecasefiles.com, Paynes rogatory interview that it was indeed about 6.30pm that he says he last saw the McCann children.I dont know where some of this made up information comes from on some of these forums.Is it any wonder that people end up in a witch hunt and accusing people of doing things they may or may NOT have done before they have even been proven guilty in a court of law.The law doesnt take into account Hearsay.

  74. Who is to say that the Gaspar's statements are truthful.Was it followed up on?Was Gerry M and David P questioned about what was supposed to have been said?

  75. 75 Maybe you could ask Gerry and Payne whether the police confronted them about the witness testimony they received? I would be willing to bet they did and Payne and Gerry said well they are a couple of liars as you seek to imply, but this information is obviously not going to be made public by the police. Poor Gerry is so frustrated and angry with Theresa May, you cannot see it, it is "sensitive". Ummmm I am sure it is!

    By the way is someone making frequent trips to the bathroom?

    I am thrilled the police are continuing to investigate Kate, Gerry and the happy holiday arranger who is not so hot on timings or memory recall. The cynical among us may think the Paynes kept saying to the police well I told you before, just so that they cannot make the same mistake as Gerry McCann, contradictory accounts. We all know that Lee Rainbow found that most significant, I agree with him!

    Anyway, nice to see you back on a old thread.


Powered by Blogger.